G.O.A.T. OU Coaching edition

[BigTime]

(GOAT = Greatest of All Time)

Billy Tubbs? Kelvin Sampson? Bruce Drake?

Who ya got and why? I'll give my take later in the thread. I think this program is very fortunate to have three really, really good coaches (and several other pretty successful ones as well...)

 

[Tony]

Tubbs.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

I really feel bad that I do not know enough about Drake to make an informed decision about him, but I'll answer anyway.

1. Tubbs: Had more overall success than Kelvin, but I think that the enviornment for that success was a little bit easier than what Kelvin had to contend with. That said, you can't forget where the program was at when Billy took over, so I have to go with Billy.

2. Kelvin: Less overall success than Tubbs, but had to deal with KU [just like Billy], but also a reinvigorated oSu under Sutton and ultimately, a solid program in UT under Barnes. Plus Kelvin had to deal with a local media that clearly played favorites as to the two in-state programs.

3. Drake: Conceding that I do not know enough about him, will look him up and reserve the right to change my mind.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Tubbs.

Tubbs had a larger impact on the Big 8/12 than any coach before him or after. The style of play he brought did the same thing to basketball that Mike Leach's offense did to football. His style changed the league from a slow-down, 4 corner style of basketball to an up-tempo quick pace that made the league more exciting and thus more marketable.

 

[Dr Sleep]

Tubbs

 

[afaSooner]

Tubbs

 

[NickZepp]

It has to be Tubbs.

 

[Dave4OU]

Tubbs with Sampson a close second

 

[vicarious]

Billy and even though he wasn't a choice i always liked John MacLeod

 

[WTSooner]

Sampson

At the end of the day, Kelvin's consistency wins out. They won nearly an identical percentage of games. Kelvin was about 4% better in conference games, in a tougher conference, IMO.

While Tubbs might have had more "high profile" teams, he still only took 1 to the Final Four, which matches Kelvin. In three of Billy's last 4 seasons, OU finished outside the top 3 in the conference. Kelvin only had two teams not finish in the top 3 of the Big 12, again, a tougher conference.

Kelvin coached 12 years, and never missed the postseason play, and only had one NIT season. That is remarkable. Tubbs coached 14 seasons, and while I don't have the numbers, he certainly missed the Dance and the NIT more often then Kelvin did.

I think it's a close call, probably coming down to what is most important to you. That said, the one thing I always loved about Kelvin was his consistency. He had OU at the top of the Big 12, and in the Dance, nearly 100% of the time. At a school like OU, I think that is important. We aren't known for running top 10 teams out there. Our program was ranked in the top 15 for the past 30 years (or whatever) based on our consistency. And that is largely due to Kelvin.

 

[WTSooner]

Kelvin coached 12 years, and never missed the postseason play, and only had one NIT season. That is remarkable. Tubbs coached 14 seasons, and while I don't have the numbers, he certainly missed the Dance and the NIT more often then Kelvin did.

Just looked up the numbers.

In 14 seasons, Tubbs missed postseason play once, and took 4 teams to the NIT. Tubbs also only had one Elite 8 team. That means both Kelvin and Tubbs had one FF team, and one Elite 8 team. Tubbs did make the Sweet 16 a bit more often, but that is splitting hairs. Having high seeds doesn't mean much if you aren't making Elite 8's and FF's. At least, as far as this discussion goes, it doesn't.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Just looked up the numbers.

In 14 seasons, Tubbs missed postseason play once, and took 4 teams to the NIT. Tubbs also only had one Elite 8 team. That means both Kelvin and Tubbs had one FF team, and one Elite 8 team. Tubbs did make the Sweet 16 a bit more often, but that is splitting hairs. Having high seeds doesn't mean much if you aren't making Elite 8's and FF's. At least, as far as this discussion goes, it doesn't.

Tubbs won 5 conference titles, and Sampson shared 1.

I like both, but I think this has to be pointed out.

Also, had Dr. Tom Hill not changed the policy regarding classes taken toward a degree after the 89/90 season, Tubbs probably has another final 4 team in 90/91 and then who knows what happens after that.

Sure, it was partially Tubbs fault because he was caught with his pants down, but the policy had been the way it was way before he was hired. I would like to know if he was told 2 or 3 years in advance, that the policy would be changing so start preparing the athletes to meet the new requirements? Maybe someone on this message board knows the answer to this question?

 

[BigTime]

I think it goes Sampson > Tubbs > Drake.

The Sampson/Tubbs difference is very, very small imo but I have to give the edge to Kelvin because he was more consistent. Three excellent coaches.

 

[SoonerinNC]

I went to OU in Drake's final years. They were pretty grim. I took a theory of basketball class with Drake as I was planning to coach as a career.

Drake's philosophy was that he could take 5 small quick guys and they would beat the bigger slower teams. Then teams, notably Kansas came in with a bunch of quick big guys and Drake's teams just couldn't compete.

He had a neat offensive pattern called the Drake Shuffle but time had passed Drake by then and the bigger opposing players learned to stuff the shuffle.

It is hard for me to pick between Tubbs and Sampson. Billy is the more personable guy and his offense was very exciting and I think those factors gain votes even though their records were pretty similar.

Billy ushered in the JUCO era and that gave him an early advantage that was pretty well gone by the time he left OU. Even Bobby Knight started using JUCO's.

Kelvin's system was less popular with the fans but probably endured the test of time better than Billy Ball or the Drake Shuffle. There just hasn't been a way to end run hard defense and intense rebounding.

Kelvin's brush with the NCAA didn't help. Probably too many phone calls would normally have been a little more than a hand slap but the NCAA turned it into something akin to axe murder and saw that there was a media blitz.

I think both were better than Drake but I didn't see Drake in his better years and he was innovative but like Billy the rest of the basketball world caught up with him.

 

[BigTime]

I went to OU in Drake's final years. They were pretty grim. I took a theory of basketball class with Drake as I was planning to coach as a career.

Drake's philosophy was that he could take 5 small quick guys and they would beat the bigger slower teams. Then teams, notably Kansas came in with a bunch of quick big guys and Drake's teams just couldn't compete.

He had a neat offensive pattern called the Drake Shuffle but time had passed Drake by then and the bigger opposing players learned to stuff the shuffle.

It is hard for me to pick between Tubbs and Sampson. Billy is the more personable guy and his offense was very exciting and I think those factors gain votes even though their records were pretty similar.

Billy ushered in the JUCO era and that gave him an early advantage that was pretty well gone by the time he left OU. Even Bobby Knight started using JUCO's.

Kelvin's system was less popular with the fans but probably endured the test of time better than Billy Ball or the Drake Shuffle. There just hasn't been a way to end run hard defense and intense rebounding.

Kelvin's brush with the NCAA didn't help. Probably too many phone calls would normally have been a little more than a hand slap but the NCAA turned it into something akin to axe murder and saw that there was a media blitz.

I think both were better than Drake but I didn't see Drake in his better years and he was innovative but like Billy the rest of the basketball world caught up with him.

Would you mind shedding some more light on Bruce Drake and his teams? I'm curious...

 

[Krugerfan52]

Tubbs. He's the only OU coach to take us to the national championship game. He had a winning record in the NCAA tourney. He's had a bunch of NBA players. He took us from garbage to greatness.

 

[Sooner04]

tubbs. He's the only ou coach to take us to the national championship game.

Bruce Drake took us to the national championship game in 1947.

They lost to Holy Cross, who were led by a freshman point guard named Bob Cousy.

 

[TakiToki]

I think it's kinda interesting that something like three out of the five or six biggest wins that Tubbs and Sampson had were against Arizona. Whenever the bracket comes out (and we're in it, of course), the first thing I always check is when the potential match-up with Arizona is.

As to the topic at hand, I'm fine with calling it a draw. I think Billy maybe had a touch more success, but I think Kelvin's maybe a slightly better ball coach. I certainly wouldn't fault anyone for thinking the opposite in either regard, though.

 

[Max Power]

For me it is very close between Tubbs and Sampson. My tie breaker is that i don't recall Tubbs having ANY NCAA issues. Even though too many phone calls is not that big a deal, that is what put Tubbs ahead just barely