I still find no identity to be an inherent flaw in Capel's approach

[coolm]

I just don't think we have the rep as a school nor he as a coach in order to pull it off.

In order to pull it off he's got to recruit athletes with good offensive skills and hope to grind them together on defense.

Problem is there aren't that many good athletes with matching offensive skills and we're not at the top of the heap to get the ones that are there...meaning if we do get some then they have "flaws" that led to them being passed down.

IMO he needs a style. Something to take more advantage of the players we ARE more apt to reach.

run and gun, constant press, hefty D, tall guys, 4 guards and a blur ... something a little harder to prep for that can use more of the players overlooked.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I just don't think we have the rep as a school nor he as a coach in order to pull it off.

In order to pull it off he's got to recruit athletes with good offensive skills and hope to grind them together on defense.

Problem is there aren't that many good athletes with matching offensive skills and we're not at the top of the heap to get the ones that are there...meaning if we do get some then they have "flaws" that led to them being passed down.

IMO he needs a style. Something to take more advantage of the players we ARE more apt to reach.

run and gun, constant press, hefty D, tall guys, 4 guards and a blur ... something a little harder to prep for that can use more of the players overlooked.

Exactly. Like Mizzou (run and gun; constant press) or Louisville (constant press). Something that allows you to recruit kids that other programs maybe aren't going after as much but fit this style.

 

[psk2080]

Or, dare I say it, like Kelvin Sampson and his blue collar defense-first approach...he won alot of games with less talent because his team was scrappy, blue collar and played defense...remember when everyone took charges, dove on the floor for loose balls, and we almost always outrebounded our opponents? Who cares that we couldn't score alot of points...winning ugly sure beats losing pretty...or, in our case this year, losing ugly...

 

[Sawyer]

Exactly. Like Mizzou (run and gun; constant press) or Louisville (constant press). Something that allows you to recruit kids that other programs maybe aren't going after as much but fit this style.

Mizzou under Quin is the perfect example of what no identity can do for a program (ended up taking talented but flawed players, like you mentioned). Mizzou under Anderson is a perfect example of how a coach with a strong identity can quickly turn things around.

Almost every good coach is known for something, whether it's a full court press, a 2-3 zone, a motion offense, the swing offense, bruising defense, etc.

 

[OUsky]

Almost every good coach is known for something, whether it's a full court press, a 2-3 zone, a motion offense, the swing offense, bruising defense, etc.

Couldn't agree more. Four years in and what is our style?

 

[NickZepp]

I think that's really the one critical thing with Jeff. Last couple of years that was hidden a little although we did struggle some in Blake's freshmen year. The only real identity we've had is solid defense but I think that's because of some of the players we've had. AJ, Crocker, Griffin brothers. That's 6-5. 6-6ish, 6-9, and a long 6-3 because of the arm length of AJ. Throw in Pattillo who was 6-6 or 6-7. You can't just pass and shoot around that length. We didn't have players that really played that way defensively this year outside of Cade and Tony and 2 players isn't good enough to make a defense.

But as far as style I don't know Capel's style. We've had solid-great post play with Blake but also Nate Carter was solid in the post so was Taylor Griffin. We didn't have that last year because of the youth there. We haven't really had consistent guard offense since Capel has been here. I love AJ and he's a solid point guard but he could go cold on offense. Willie was close to that last year and at times this year when he wasn't hurt or not caring or whatever we didn't have his scoring when we needed it. Same with TMG last year. But on a constant basis our guards haven't really been that type of scoring threat that we've needed.

 

[CanRiv12]

I liked our style last year. Not so much this year.

There are also plenty of new coaches who install their "identity" at a job, then fail because they couldn't get the players they needed to achieve it. Identity seems to be more of something for fans and great slogan T's.

I would rather each individual team establish their own identity and go from there. In order to be successful, you don't have to have a "we have to run and gun" or "we have to play 4 guards". I think the legendary coaches have had fundamental elements, like playing great defense and maybe a specific offense strategically, but most of them adapted to what they had each year.

 

[MercedeSooner]

wholeheartedly disagree. nobody said you need to have a certain style to win, but you win by being good at what you do through experience and get kids to buy into what you're selling by showing the success you've had running a certain system.

Obviously every coach and team tweaks their approach depending on the roster but you cant name 1 big time coach who changed their MO and teaching style on a year to year basis and won consistently.

 

[CanRiv12]

wholeheartedly disagree. nobody said you need to have a certain style to win, but you win by being good at what you do through experience and get kids to buy into what you're selling by showing the success you've had running a certain system.

Obviously every coach and team tweaks their approach depending on the roster but you cant name 1 big time coach who changed their MO and teaching style on a year to year basis and won consistently.

Don't disagree. I certainly think Coach Capel has a general philosophy that he wants to stick to and follow, but I don't think he needs a "unique" style to attach to it to be a successful recruiter. As a Top 25 program, I think you can recruit quite well here, and have the ability to win championships without having a niche style.

I believe recruits are more interested in opportunity to play, ability to get to the NBA, current teammates, overall success, proximity to home and the built up relationship with a said coach, than what system he is running.

 

[coolm]

Don't disagree. I certainly think Coach Capel has a general philosophy that he wants to stick to and follow, but I don't think he needs a "unique" style to attach to it to be a successful recruiter.

and what philosophy would that be? the one that he is unable to recruit to at the moment?

As a Top 25 program, I think you can recruit quite well here, and have the ability to win championships without having a niche style.

and you base this on what? this school does NOT have a history of signing top-20 recruits consistently and those are the ones who meet a "general" philosophy.

I believe recruits are more interested in opportunity to play, ability to get to the NBA, current teammates, overall success, proximity to home and the built up relationship with a said coach, than what system he is running.

it's not a matter of the philosophy appealing to the recruits...but one that the recruits we can get matching. I think you're missing the point.

 

[MercedeSooner]

A coach's philosophy and style of play go hand in hand.

When you're talking about recruiting, kids want to know what kind of program and the style of play they're coming into and whether its the kind they want. Top level talent wants to go to a program with a style of play that accentuates their talents and gives them a better shot at the league. If Calipari wasnt running his dribble motion penetration style offense and was still running what he was at UMass do you think he'd be getting the kids they do ? The system a coach implements means a ton for recruiting.

 

[Darwin]

I just don't think we have the rep as a school nor he as a coach in order to pull it off.

In order to pull it off he's got to recruit athletes with good offensive skills and hope to grind them together on defense.

Problem is there aren't that many good athletes with matching offensive skills and we're not at the top of the heap to get the ones that are there...meaning if we do get some then they have "flaws" that led to them being passed down.

IMO he needs a style. Something to take more advantage of the players we ARE more apt to reach.

run and gun, constant press, hefty D, tall guys, 4 guards and a blur ... something a little harder to prep for that can use more of the players overlooked.

That is certainly something to consider and many of Jeff's recruits have had some flaws but so do many top recruits because of the AAU culture. Billy Donovan would agree with that and perhaps Roy Williams would also. The program had recruiting momentum under Jeff, without a special style, based a lot on his charisma. Now that momentum is making a giant sucking sound, and this program needs a recruiter to get it back. So now we see if Jeff can build it all again like 4 years ago. I think he will rebuild it quickly and by doing so many detractors will jump back on the his wagon. I don't disagree with some of the criticisms but it's still too soon to be anything but supportive to Jeff and the program.