I think we are really underestimating Blake...

[elmocarp]

I know I have personal biases, but I really think many on this board are selling Blake short as he heads to the Clippers. As rare and refreshing as he was as a collegiate athlete, he is going to be doubly so as a professional. He doesn't carry a sense of entitlement, he will ALWAYS be the hardest worker on his team and he is universally well-liked by other players (something that is hard to do when you are hands-down better than they are).

He is not the type of guy you normally find in the league, not by a long shot. Heck, I love Durant, Green and Westbrook, and they are A+ guys by NBA standards, but they can't hold a candle to Blake in terms of how he is going to carry himself.

He is going to walk into that locker room and the type of guy he is will make the team pick sides. There is no way you can be on the same team as Zach Randolp and Blake Griffin and not see/sense/feel the polar differences between them. Everyone acts like the team is a bunch of dogs...true enough, Randolph and Ricky Davis are about as bad as it can get (don't be surprised if Davis doesn't opt out of his deal, it isn't that great), but Baron Davis is really more of a diva than a bad dude. And Camby has always been a pro's pro. But there is nothing wrong with Chris Kaman's attitude, or Al Thornton's, or Eric Gordon's. Guys like Mike Taylor and DeAndre Jordan are gonna do whatever it takes to stick with the team.

All those guys...its not like they are united in support of Randolph. As Blake gets in there and shows how hard he works, and starts getting comfortable on the court, those guys are going to start to want things to be done the right way. The big issue is Dunleavy, but word is they didn't completely overhaul the coaching staff only because they wanted to be sure they had a capable interim in place if he had to be fired this season.

Sterling is what he is, but the Clippers are a way better spot for Blake than the Grizzlies or the Kings...Blake's goals have always been higher than most would even recommend, but he does what it takes to reach them. I'm not saying he is going to change decades worth of awful management, but don't doubt he will have a major impact on the culture of the team. He isn't going to shift into me-first mode or pout or sulk. He is like Shane Battier with a franchise-player's talent.

I think we should look forward to the way Blake will represent us all in the league. The downside of being a number one pick is you usually go to a bad team. We should quit whining and crying and look forward to seeing Blake make his mark on the league...

 

[thebigabd]

I hope Blake can make Zach Randolph a good teammate... Do that, and you will have a great post duo to go with a great 2-3 combo of Gordon and Thornton.

They have some really nice pieces, they just need leadership and to play as a team.

 

[playmakr]

If the Clips can somehow get some stops, they will fight for the 8 seed.

 

[Smash Williams]

Sorry, but no one wins consistently with bad ownership and an incompetent front office. Zach Randolph could be gone tomorrow, and the Clippers would just replace him with another selfish headcase. The same goes with Baron Davis: call him what you will, but he has always been a selfish player who doesn't played hard and exercise any sort of restraint until he's in a contract year. Of course, those individuals aren't the problem. It's the people that keep bringing in those kind of players for ridiculous amounts of money. You can even have a team full of nice guys who work hard, but if you overpay them all it's going to blow up in your face. As much as I love Blake Griffin, I don't believe that he or any other individual basketball player in the world can completely transform the culture of a franchise and overcome god-awful management. I think Blake is going to flourish as the team around him flounders and gets gutted due to poor management. Of course, I hope I'm completely wrong for Blake's sake.

 

[playmakr]

I don't believe that he or any other individual basketball player in the world can completely transform the culture of a franchise and overcome god-awful management.

It's hard to say "or any other individual basketball player" when it has already been done.

 

[Smash Williams]

It's hard to say "or any other individual basketball player" when it has already been done.

Examples?

 

[playmakr]

Examples?

Just for starters Michael, Lebron, Garnett. Garnett is a terrific example.

 

[Smash Williams]

Just for starters Michael, Lebron, Garnett. Garnett is a terrific example.

The Bulls were run by Rod Thorn and Jerry Krause. Thorn was a good GM, and although Krause was a miserable human being desperate for recognition , he had a good eye for talent and assembled a quality team around Jordan. Eventually Reinsdorf and Krause were to blame for breaking up a championship team due to their huge egos, but they did a good job of putting one together. The Bulls had a lot of good seasons prior to Jordan's arrival, and ownership changed at that time. Jordan didn't inherit an incompetent GM and miserly ownership. In no way did that situation resemble the Clippers' current situation.

Gordan Gund sold the Cavs to Daniel Gilbert during LeBron's second season and replaced Paxson with Danny Ferry. Though Ferry isn't a brilliant executive by any stretch of the imagination, he has a good pedigree and isn't as clueless as Elgin Baylor and Mike Dunleavy when it comes to trading. Gilbert has also been willing to spend well over the luxury tax threshold to keep a winning team intact.

How is Kevin Garnett a terrific example? The Celtics' ownership group has been more than willing to spend. They won a championship with an enormous payroll. Kevin Garnett is a terrific example of how little a player can do with a combination of poor management and terrible ownership. Kevin McHale drove the Minnesota franchise into the ground, and it took Glen Taylor about fifteen years to realize that he had one of the most incompetent GMs in the NBA. It's exactly the same as Donald Sterling letting Elgin Baylor run the Clippers for 20+ years and giving Mike Dunleavy an enormous 4-year extension just as the team was imploding.

 

[playmakr]

In no way did that situation resemble the Clippers' current situation.

Oh, well then I misread your post. I didn't see where it had to resemble the Clippers fully. I thought you posted what I quoted about one player being able to reshape a franchise. Perhaps the quote function is faulty.

The Bulls had a lot of good seasons prior to Jordan's arrival

What seasons were those, particularly within 10 years of his arrival? They were above .500 twice in the decade before MJ. As for Rod Thorn, exactly what did he do in the 7 years as GM before Jordan? One winning season? Jerry took over for him in 85 and yes did a good job of building around Jordan. But, again, what was the climate like before Jordan? Trust me, nobody cared about the Bulls in Chicago.

Gordan Gund sold the Cavs to Daniel Gilbert during LeBron's second season and replaced Paxson with Danny Ferry. Though Ferry isn't a brilliant executive by any stretch of the imagination, he has a good pedigree and isn't as clueless as Elgin Baylor and Mike Dunleavy when it comes to trading. Gilbert has also been willing to spend well over the luxury tax threshold to keep a winning team intact.

Okay. Well, I don't think Ferry as done well at all. Gilbert may be willing to spend, but most of that money is tied up in horrible players like Ben Wallace and Wally Z. And as you know, the Cavs were averaging 25 wins a year the 8 years before Lebron with clowns like Ricky Davis. Cleveland to this day isn't under great management, and they had the best record in the NBA and sold out all the time. That's Lebron.

How is Kevin Garnett a terrific example? The Celtics'

Oh. It's not about the Celtics.

In the 7 seasons before Garnett, the Wolves averaged around 22 wins per year, never making the playoffs. Garnett transformed the Wolves into a winning team, taking them to the playoffs 8 times after that. You might be thinking to yourself or flying to the reply button to post about all the first round losses. Okay. Consider what the Wolves were before Garnett got there.


And remember, these guys are "for starters."

 

[Sooner04]

It's going to be very difficult to overcome Don Sterling and Mike Dunleavy. I'm not sure any NBA franchise (other than the Cavs of the late 70s and 80s) has ever been as toxic or rancid.

 

[Smash Williams]

Oh, well then I misread your post. I didn't see where it had to resemble the Clippers fully. I thought you posted what I quoted about one player being able to reshape a franchise. Perhaps the quote function is faulty.

Or perhaps you quoted one line out of my post and took it completely out of context. I was talking about the culture of a franchise in the context of the management and the ownership. In the MJ and LeBron examples, there were changes in ownership and/or management early in those players' careers. If Donald Sterling sells the team or if he ever holds his front-office people accountable and replaces them with competent executives, the Clipper culture can easily change. You can win with ownership that spends modestly as long as you have executives who spend wisely, or you can win with mediocre management as long as you have an owner who is willing to spend a ton of money.

What seasons were those, particularly within 10 years of his arrival? They were above .500 twice in the decade before MJ. As for Rod Thorn, exactly what did he do in the 7 years as GM before Jordan? One winning season? Jerry took over for him in 85 and yes did a good job of building around Jordan. But, again, what was the climate like before Jordan? Trust me, nobody cared about the Bulls in Chicago.

I shouldn't have even mentioned Thorn. He wasn't pertinent to the discussion because he left shortly after drafting Jordan. See what I already said about front office and ownership changes as they relate to the team's climate (which is why I won't debate the merits of Thorn as NBA executive here).

Okay. Well, I don't think Ferry as done well at all. Gilbert may be willing to spend, but most of that money is tied up in horrible players like Ben Wallace and Wally Z. And as you know, the Cavs were averaging 25 wins a year the 8 years before Lebron with clowns like Ricky Davis. Cleveland to this day isn't under great management, and they had the best record in the NBA and sold out all the time. That's Lebron.

I don't think Danny Ferry is a very good executive, but his mistakes aren't as costly because he has an owner who is willing to pay $20+ million per year in luxury taxes, thereby not handcuffing Ferry in future moves. Ferry isn't forced to make pure salary dumps just to cut costs. Sterling is a modest spender who never hires the right people, then doesn't hold those front office failures accountable.

Oh. It's not about the Celtics.

In the 7 seasons before Garnett, the Wolves averaged around 22 wins per year, never making the playoffs. Garnett transformed the Wolves into a winning team, taking them to the playoffs 8 times after that. You might be thinking to yourself or flying to the reply button to post about all the first round losses. Okay. Consider what the Wolves were before Garnett got there.


And remember, these guys are "for starters."

The T-Wolves were simply a bad team. Once they got some decent players, they were willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money to keep their talent (Gugliotta's massive contract and Joe Smith's absurd under-the-table deal in addition to Garnett's historic first extension). Glen Taylor, like Sterling doesn't hold his executives accountable, but he has been willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money.

 

[playmakr]

It's going to be very difficult to overcome Don Sterling and Mike Dunleavy. I'm not sure any NBA franchise (other than the Cavs of the late 70s and 80s) has ever been as toxic or rancid.

Agreed. The Clippers take the cake.