Sooner Caravan in Dallas

[OULad]

Ya I cant see him keeping his job too much longer if he keeps going 7-11. Especially as the buyout gets smaller. Thats always been my stance.

 

[MJSooner]

Ya I cant see him keeping his job too much longer if he keeps going 7-11. Especially as the buyout gets smaller. Thats always been my stance.

On the flip side, if he makes the tournament with something like a 24-13 record and wins a couple of games to make it out of the first weekend, will you really care what the in-season conference record was? Can't imagine the actual conference record overrides other factors, like making and winning in the postseason, in determining the fate of his job.

 

[OULad]

On the flip side, if he makes the tournament with something like a 24-13 record and wins a couple of games to make it out of the first weekend, will you really care what the in-season conference record was? Can't imagine the actual conference record overrides other factors, like making and winning in the postseason, in determining the fate of his job.

Under that scenario I wouldnt get rid of him. That would be a step in the right direction.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

On the flip side, if he makes the tournament with something like a 24-13 record and wins a couple of games to make it out of the first weekend, will you really care what the in-season conference record was? Can't imagine the actual conference record overrides other factors, like making and winning in the postseason, in determining the fate of his job.

Yes. Conference record is a key indicator of success. If we are subpar but make a hot run in the post season, that is a flash in the pan that likely won't be repeated

 

[BoulderSooner]

Yes. Conference record is a key indicator of success. If we are subpar but make a hot run in the post season, that is a flash in the pan that likely won't be repeated

yep this is how i feel as well .. but in a multi season sample ..


as a single season marker i don't care as much as 1 being ranked and 2 wining in the dance ..

but over time winning conf game will lead to those 2 things more times then not

and as has been said Moser has the worst conf record of any OUcoach in over 100 years

 

[SoonerMagic21]

I know this is off topic and off thread, but does anyone know why Parker and Brandon split up? Is there any beef or did they just decide to part ways?

 

[soonerchuck]

yep this is how i feel as well .. but in a multi season sample ..


as a single season marker i don't care as much as 1 being ranked and 2 wining in the dance ..

but over time winning conf game will lead to those 2 things more times then not

and as has been said Moser has the worst conf record of any OUcoach in over 100 years

yep this is how i feel as well .. but in a multi season sample ..


as a single season marker i don't care as much as 1 being ranked and 2 wining in the dance ..

but over time winning conf game will lead to those 2 things more times then not

and as has been said Moser has the worst conf record of any OUcoach in over 100 years

I don't believe anyone has mentioned that he is the first and only coach of OU men's basketball that has had to lead the sooners while they are PLAYING in the SEC where the teams split more conference revenues and they have their own sports network tv station which helps keep the overall level of competition higher than about any conference. Seems to me that might be why all those other ou basketball coaches had an easier job staying in the top half of the conference basketball standings.

 

[61sooner]

In the previous Big 8. 12 conferences usually Kansas, k-State, Mizzou, OU, Texas, Iowa State and sometimes Okie State had strong programs.
Nebbish, Tex A& M were weal sisters, so those conferences were fairly balanced.
Coaches like Johnny Orr, Norm Stewart, Jack Hartman, Tex Winter, Phog Allen, Roy Williams from other schools were HOF ins or near.
SEC has its share of weaker teams also so PM doesn't get a pass on that basis of record comparison.

 

[MJSooner]

I don't believe anyone has mentioned that he is the first and only coach of OU men's basketball that has had to lead the sooners while they are PLAYING in the SEC where the teams split more conference revenues and they have their own sports network tv station which helps keep the overall level of competition higher than about any conference. Seems to me that might be why all those other ou basketball coaches had an easier job staying in the top half of the conference basketball standings.

Clearly, the current conference configurations skews comparing conference records from 2026 to yesteryear. For example, hard to say Porter is a worse coach solely based on conference records vs. those in the 1970s. Or 80s, 90s. The SEC is a deeper conference now, and we don't have a Baylor or A&M of the late 90s that gives us any wins.

Conferences are deeper, but conversely, harder for Dave Bliss to get in the NCAA tournament in 1978 than it is with 64 teams and 30-some at-large bids today.

That is why I made my point; it is hard to say based on conference record alone that the season is a success or not. Make it to the Sweet 16 or further, and I don't give a crap what the conference record might be. If you're not winning the SEC, and still can get in the dance with a chance to be competitive, not much different from placing 2nd vs. 8th, 9th, or 10th. Of course, the better the conference record is, the more likely the team is to advance in March.

 

[OULad]

Id say the SEC from top to bottom is better than the avg Big 12 over the last 25 years, but not by much. Not enough to go 7-11 every year.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

From the behind-the-scenes stuff, how he departed, and some of the stories during his tenure with the Cowboys, it could be argued that John Blake wasn't the good guy people painted him out to be. I feel he liked to project himself completely different than how people said he was.

And Moser may not win as much as we like, but Blake was a totally incompetent coach who also failed at compliance and admin issues. Schnelleberger was a royal class pr!ck, Sonny's personality literally split the baseball program and alumni, and if you ever met Capel, you didn't walk away with warm and fuzzies. We've had our share of not so great of a guy coaches, even more on the assistant side.

But when you are a good guy, stay out of trouble, connect and get along with the admin, and be able to sell the program and a vision of what it could be, whether accurately achieved or not, it does get you some grace points with the bosses. Just as it does in the real corporate world as well. Being a good guy shouldn't be the sole reason to keep someone, but if things are on the margin, and a clearly better solution isn't avaiable, being a good guy helps.

Not defending Porter's record at all, but there is a primary reason he is still here. And my guess if he was more like Schnelly or Sonny, he wouldn't be.

John Blake was absolutely not a good guy, IMO...

 

[Stikboy]

On the flip side, if he makes the tournament with something like a 24-13 record and wins a couple of games to make it out of the first weekend, will you really care what the in-season conference record was? Can't imagine the actual conference record overrides other factors, like making and winning in the postseason, in determining the fate of his job.

I care. I enjoy success in the regular season, and beating rivals. More than barely making it in the tournament, barely beating Austin Peay(if we're lucky), then getting boatraced by San Diego State.

 

[61sooner]

Outside of Kentucky, until recently, the SEC was never a basketball powerhouse. The Big 8 or 12 was usually as deep or better than the SEC.
The ACC was heads and shoulders above the SEC.

 

[WaymanFan]

Outside of Kentucky, until recently, the SEC was never a basketball powerhouse. The Big 8 or 12 was usually as deep or better than the SEC.
The ACC was heads and shoulders above the SEC.

Yes, and so was the Big X. How I rate basketball conferences is their performance against our Sooners during the NCAA Tournament. I'm not going to post OU's NCAA Tournament record against the ACC and Big X because it's embarrassing. Fortunately, OU has always been highly competitive against all the other conferences.

As for John Blake being a "good guy", didn't he destroy / delete a database of recruits on his way out the door? There was certainly a lot of "smoke" with that accusation. If true, "good guy" would be a major stretch.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I don't believe anyone has mentioned that he is the first and only coach of OU men's basketball that has had to lead the sooners while they are PLAYING in the SEC where the teams split more conference revenues and they have their own sports network tv station which helps keep the overall level of competition higher than about any conference. Seems to me that might be why all those other ou basketball coaches had an easier job staying in the top half of the conference basketball standings.

weak. The big 12 has historically been one of the toughest if not the toughest conferences in the country year over year. and last i checked, Moser coached OU more seasons in the big 12 than the SEC

 

[IndySooner]

OU has had 12 basketball coaches and not counting early years, few games played, Moser surprisingly ranks about in the middle winning percentage wise
of the rest, above the worst, Doyle Parrack and Bob Stevens and slightly better than Bruce Drake and Capel, Drake had a good career and probably didn't
play near as many stiffs as PM.
BUT HIS CONFERENCE RECORD IS THE WORST IN OU HISTORY. For that alone he shouldn't be anywhere near Norman, Oklahoma as a coach.

To be fair, no other coach has consistently coached in either the best or second best conference in the country. The Big 8 and Big 12 - before the past few years - was always a very top heavy conference with a lot of W's on the schedule. It wasn't until VERY recently that the depth developed. Then, we moved into the SEC just as the SEC developed the same depth.

Capel's teams (and most of Lon's and early Kelvin's) would have gotten crushed in these conference schedules as well.

 

[WichitaSooner]

To be fair, no other coach has consistently coached in either the best or second best conference in the country. The Big 8 and Big 12 - before the past few years - was always a very top heavy conference with a lot of W's on the schedule. It wasn't until VERY recently that the depth developed. Then, we moved into the SEC just as the SEC developed the same depth.

Capel's teams (and most of Lon's and early Kelvin's) would have gotten crushed in these conference schedules as well.

You don't think the Big 12 was a top 2 conference during Lon's tenure lol?

 

[MJSooner]

You don't think the Big 12 was a top 2 conference during Lon's tenure lol?

No doubt, it was. Probably the toughest most years.

But I don't recall mobs and almost 100% of true basketball supporters with torches and pitchforks calling for LK's job post 2016 because he kept making the tournament, except that one year, with an occasional victory. Plus, he had the history of previous success at OU.

Ultimately, yeah, it's great to have a + conference record. And if you are in one of the toughest 2-3 leagues, a .500+ record almost guarantees an at-large bid.

With that said, if Moser goes 10-8 in the SEC this year, and misses the tournament or gets bounced easily in the first round, I can't imagine there will be a lot of advocates saying this was a good season because we had a winning SEC record and squeaked in the tournament.

Postseason success is what determines the fate of most coaches at any level.

 

[cowboysooner]

It is "beating a dead horse" to argue about whether Moser is a great, good, poor or worst ever coach. Everyone has an opinion and there is anything but a consensus. It has been discussed and argued about on this board for years.

However, and I say this not just about Moser but also about every coach that has been coaching college basketball for the last 5 years, it is plain silly to use historical data re performance to assess any coach. You can only fairly use the last 5 years, and within that time period, (and as mentioned by R Denny), you have to view the coaches performance and record in the context of the financial support he has been given. It is nothing short of absurd to compare the record of a coach with substantial financial resources to the record of a coach that has worked with no financial resources, or very limited resources. It is like comparing the merit of an apple to a goat. The coaches aren't even coaching the same sport these days.

I just don't see any fair way to compare Moser's record to coaches that worked prior to 2020 (no data). And, in any event, the game is completely different than before 2021, as everyone was supposed to be playing amateur ball. Now we are in the pro ball era, I think you have to compare the coaches performance relative to other programs that have similar financial means. To my knowledge, we really don't know what any particular schools actual financial means are. All coaches look better when playing with better players than their competition. I just think it is tough right now to fairly assess a coach as there are so many factors. Moser took a school with no history, no tradition and an enrollment of something like Tulsa, and won big.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It is "beating a dead horse" to argue about whether Moser is a great, good, poor or worst ever coach. Everyone has an opinion and there is anything but a consensus. It has been discussed and argued about on this board for years.

However, and I say this not just about Moser but also about every coach that has been coaching college basketball for the last 5 years, it is plain silly to use historical data re performance to assess any coach. You can only fairly use the last 5 years, and within that time period, (and as mentioned by R Denny), you have to view the coaches performance and record in the context of the financial support he has been given. It is nothing short of absurd to compare the record of a coach with substantial financial resources to the record of a coach that has worked with no financial resources, or very limited resources. It is like comparing the merit of an apple to a goat. The coaches aren't even coaching the same sport these days.

I just don't see any fair way to compare Moser's record to coaches that worked prior to 2020 (no data). And, in any event, the game is completely different than before 2021, as everyone was supposed to be playing amateur ball. Now we are in the pro ball era, I think you have to compare the coaches performance relative to other programs that have similar financial means. To my knowledge, we really don't know what any particular schools actual financial means are. All coaches look better when playing with better players than their competition. I just think it is tough right now to fairly assess a coach as there are so many factors. Moser took a school with no history, no tradition and an enrollment of something like Tulsa, and won big.

Atleast now it is all in the open. We probably aren't further behind what the top teams were paying now than we were then. The blue bloods and top teams were paying people well before NIL. If anything that means we should expect better performance since we are playing the same game now