Sooner Sessions Camps

[rocjunkie]

Well here is the "official" un-official poop on the closing on Sherri's summer camps. At the last Fast Break Club luncheon, a couple of our members and I finally asked why the camps were discontinued. We got the word from the "horses mouth" so to speak. Guy Austin first tried to kind of dance around the issue and said it was a financial issue. He said they pay officials $17,000.00 (total mind you) to come and work the camp. Then kind of hemned and hawed until one of my friends just asked if it had any thing to do with the Penn State problems. He said yes, that had a lot to do with it. He told us of a situation in Ohio,(didn't say which University) where an assistant coach was unfairly accused of improper conduct with a camper. To make a long story short, the camper lied and the coach was cleared, but still there was the "stigma" Guy said the insurance to cover legal fees, etc... just didn't make sense, and so the powers-that-be decided it would be best just to discontinue the camp.

I know we all speculated on why the camps were closed, and all of us had pretty much the answers. I got the feeling Sherri didn't really want to close, but it was over her head. Money is money, and liability is what it is. Don't like it, but I can see why the University decided to cancel them. We didn't try to press the issue too much, I was very appreciative that he seemed truly honest and let it go at that. I kind of wonder if any other Universities will follow suit over time, it will be interesting to watch.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Well here is the "official" un-official poop on the closing on Sherri's summer camps. At the last Fast Break Club luncheon, a couple of our members and I finally asked why the camps were discontinued. We got the word from the "horses mouth" so to speak. Guy Austin first tried to kind of dance around the issue and said it was a financial issue. He said they pay officials $17,000.00 (total mind you) to come and work the camp. Then kind of hemned and hawed until one of my friends just asked if it had any thing to do with the Penn State problems. He said yes, that had a lot to do with it. He told us of a situation in Ohio,(didn't say which University) where an assistant coach was unfairly accused of improper conduct with a camper. To make a long story short, the camper lied and the coach was cleared, but still there was the "stigma" Guy said the insurance to cover legal fees, etc... just didn't make sense, and so the powers-that-be decided it would be best just to discontinue the camp.

I know we all speculated on why the camps were closed, and all of us had pretty much the answers. I got the feeling Sherri didn't really want to close, but it was over her head. Money is money, and liability is what it is. Don't like it, but I can see why the University decided to cancel them. We didn't try to press the issue too much, I was very appreciative that he seemed truly honest and let it go at that. I kind of wonder if any other Universities will follow suit over time, it will be interesting to watch.

If the insurance companies think this type of coverage can be a cash cow, they will keep raising the premiums until more universities say enough is enough..

 

[rocjunkie]

If the insurance companies think this type of coverage can be a cash cow, they will keep raising the premiums until more universities say enough is enough..

My thoughts exactly.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I really don't see the liability being any greater with the camps than with a professor/coach with students/college athletes. A student could lie and say Coach So and So told them if they didn't cooperate, they would be kicked off the team. A classroom student could say a similar thing to get a good grade from a professor.

The only real difference is the age of the kids. But, the stigma would still be there.

 

[MsProudSooner]

My thoughts exactly.

It's really a shame because camps of all kinds are great experiences for kids. If insurance is going to be astronomical for athletic camps, the same is going to happen eventually for all kinds of camps.

 

[soonerstar]

Texas Tech is still having theirs. I would guess OU is in the minority on this right now.

 

[SoonerNorm]

If a few insurance companies start making huge profits in a particular area of insurance, many other companies will jump in which will drive prices down. Generally, rates go up as claim payments climb.

 

[cowboysooner]

I think the concern about liability is just silly. The entire world, at every level, for the entirety of time, has had junior camps in every sport and still does.

The university has sovernign immunity and very limited liability, save and except for civil rights exposure (no risk here) and intentional acts, which wouldn't be OU's responsibility.

OU should just not insure themselves on this, and if they do, just purchase the standard governmental entity Tort Claims Act policy that covers them up to the tort claims limit of $175k. Virtually every entity in state has this coverage.

Ou is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Frankly, I still think the truth lies in the financial cost of having the camps and the analysis of what we have or haven't gained from them. I dont' know the answer to this cost analysis, but you can bet OU has thought it through. I suspect, OU concluded that we don't get many kids from the programs to justify the expense. I think this is short sighted for many reasons, but who am I.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I think the concern about liability is just silly. The entire world, at every level, for the entirety of time, has had junior camps in every sport and still does.

The university has sovernign immunity and very limited liability, save and except for civil rights exposure (no risk here) and intentional acts, which wouldn't be OU's responsibility.

OU should just not insure themselves on this, and if they do, just purchase the standard governmental entity Tort Claims Act policy that covers them up to the tort claims limit of $175k. Virtually every entity in state has this coverage.

Ou is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Frankly, I still think the truth lies in the financial cost of having the camps and the analysis of what we have or haven't gained from them. I dont' know the answer to this cost analysis, but you can bet OU has thought it through. I suspect, OU concluded that we don't get many kids from the programs to justify the expense. I think this is short sighted for many reasons, but who am I.

:clap:clap

 

[SoonerShamrock]

I really don't see the liability being any greater with the camps than with a professor/coach with students/college athletes. A student could lie and say Coach So and So told them if they didn't cooperate, they would be kicked off the team. A classroom student could say a similar thing to get a good grade from a professor.

The only real difference is the age of the kids. But, the stigma would still be there.

I see one other significant difference: You can't have a university without professors (and some would argue you can't without college athletics either). Camps are certainly not a necessity for a university. So there's a liability exposure by necessity versus a liability exposure that's easily eliminated.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I see one other significant difference: You can't have a university without professors (and some would argue you can't without college athletics either). Camps are certainly not a necessity for a university. So there's a liability exposure by necessity versus a liability exposure that's easily eliminated.

I just don't believe the cost of insurance is that high for the camps. You have what, 30,000 students at OU and only 100 or so campers. Considering the students are there 9 months out of the year and the campers are there for about a week, I would say the cost of insurance would be a drop in the bucket for the camps compared to what they already pay.

 

[MsProudSooner]

I just don't believe the cost of insurance is that high for the camps. You have what, 30,000 students at OU and only 100 or so campers. Considering the students are there 9 months out of the year and the campers are there for about a week, I would say the cost of insurance would be a drop in the bucket for the camps compared to what they already pay.

Does the fact that the campers are minors and students aren't make a difference?

Also, Google says the current cost of the Penn State scandal is $27 million dollars. It's bound to go higher. Is insurance paying any of that?

 

[Keller Sooner]

I don't understand. They're cancelling girl's basketball camps, yet continue to hold them for other sports? I have no idea what costs are incurred by running the camps, but I would venture to guess that most of Sherri's players have attended her camps and they played a major role in their recruitment. I would think the liability issue would be common among all other camps held at OU. To me, they are discontinuing a very important recruiting tool for Women's Basketball. From what I gather, we have enough problems recruiting girl's basketball talent without cutting a valuable tool such as the camps.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Does the fact that the campers are minors and students aren't make a difference?

I am not an actuarial but I doubt the age would matter. The tort limit of $175,000 per claim still applies.

Also, Google says the current cost of the Penn State scandal is $27 million dollars. It's bound to go higher. Is insurance paying any of that?

I'm not sure what the laws are in Pennsylvania but if you are interested, this explains the law in Oklahoma:

http://okea.org/index.php?id=408

Please note that it mentions, "while acting within the scope of their employment". A good argument can be made that no one who abuses others are acting within the scope of their employment.

 

[35TangoTango]

I don't understand. They're cancelling girl's basketball camps, yet continue to hold them for other sports? I have no idea what costs are incurred by running the camps, but I would venture to guess that most of Sherri's players have attended her camps and they played a major role in their recruitment. I would think the liability issue would be common among all other camps held at OU. To me, they are discontinuing a very important recruiting tool for Women's Basketball. From what I gather, we have enough problems recruiting girl's basketball talent without cutting a valuable tool such as the camps.

You're right. Something doesn't add up here. I am not at all convinced we've got the real story.

 

[sybarite]

How many temporary workers are hired to deal with the numbers that might attend a camp? Temporary workers might well be dealt with differently from permanent employees with regard to law and insurance. The "minor' aspect of this may well loom large.

 

[SoonerNorm]

How many temporary workers are hired to deal with the numbers that might attend a camp? Temporary workers might well be dealt with differently from permanent employees with regard to law and insurance. The "minor' aspect of this may well loom large.

Whether they are temporary or permanent employees does not increase the exposure for the university.

 

[sybarite]

Whether they are temporary or permanent employees does not increase the exposure for the university.

It does matter to an insurance company. Most companies want no part of insuring temporary workers. Any industry with high turnover finds it difficult to insure.

 

[MsProudSooner]

You're right. Something doesn't add up here. I am not at all convinced we've got the real story.

We may not have the entire story but I think we have part of it. The question remains - why the women's bb camps and none of the other camps. The only logical answer is the size of the women's bb budget, I guess.

 

[SoonerNorm]

It does matter to an insurance company. Most companies want no part of insuring temporary workers. Any industry with high turnover finds it difficult to insure.

How many temporary employees do you think the university employs?