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Stikboy

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Well much to my excitement I stumbled on to the fact that 1757 showed the Washburn game. I think I'm really going to like this Soonersports.tv/Fox/OU network stuff.

Anyway, as far as the game, I came away very excited. Just from the sheer influx of talent, athletic ability, and yes, scoring on display. While I know basketball isn't all just about athleticism I think we as fans have reason to be excited about the new guys. I was pumped about the fact that we had 3 new starters, and I liked what I saw.

Backcourt---

Here is where the bulk of my enthusiam lies. All three of our new guards are vastly better, overall tools-wise, than anyone we had on campus, by a large margin. They are all athletic, fast, have handles, can play defense, and something that i can't really believe no one is mentioning, THEY CAN SHOOT. Now I hope I'm not jinxing them, but all three of their shooting numbers have been sick. It's just one game, but combined they were like 8-10 from 3? And they had good percentages in the scrimmages also. Now only a fool would think they can keep it up at this clip but at least we know when they square up for an open J there's a better than average chance it's going in..

Cam Clark is frustrating to watch. He looks like a thoroughbred waiting to be unleashed but it still seems that he can't find his flow within the offense. I hope Lon can meld him a role and maximize his talents.

Pledger is Pledger. His shot has been money, and he has always seemed like a heady player. He has no handles(zero left hand) and can't play D near as well as the other guys, but his scoring(at least his outside shot) will definitely help us.

Hield looks great. Athletic, can create shot, can score beyond the arc, rebounds, can handle and appears to love playing D. Got 3 steals.

Hornbeak didn't show as much because he may have gotten in foul trouble? Not sure. But he was all nets on his 3s and I wish as the 2 he would try to maybe assert himself more. He seems to just blend in. Has great quicks, handles, etc.

Cousins had good and bad. He has good size, can handle/pass/shoot. Obviously he'll bring the scoring dimension that Grooms lacks. He did have a few turnovers, but it was his first collegiate contest against a team not his own. He'll improve on that.

Grooms appears to be the same guy, which isn't totally a bad thing. He is silky smooth with the ball, plays D, and can pass. Really everything you want in a PG except some scoring. When Grooms comes in it just seems to stabilize things...

Overall I love the depth and upgraded talent in the backcourt. The freshmen had some turnovers in this game but again let's not knee-jerk. Realize how much better and under control they'll get with experience.

Frontcourt--

I have be honest I was underwhelmed and a little disappointed. I don't sit there and count every rebound but it seemed like Washburn outrebounded the heck out of us. Maybe the numbers said we won that battle, and I know that Washburn is a good D2, but man it looked bad to me. Didn't really see any post moves from Fitz, MBaye, or Ro either.

Romero looked the same. I hope he has a great senior year. He's big, athletic, has a nice touch. Great leader.. Hope he can develop more post moves.

Amath, honestly, I thought would be more of a back to the basket guy. Now, he is VERY skilled and can do a lot of things. But to me he seems like his skillset is a tall 3. He isn't as rangy and muscular as I thought, he's thin. Will he hold up in the Big 12 being an inside guy? Rebound? We need lots of rebounds from him. He will be able to create matchup problems for less skilled and athletic 4s.

Fitz looks the same except it does look like he's worked on his body. Good for him. Looks like he's having a good attitude so far on losing his starting position. Good offensive guy, wish he'd mix it up more offensively with more post moves instead of the 15 footers all the time. Needs to use that butt(because he can't jump) and space himself some rebounds..

Overall frontcourt wise I was less impressed than with our backcourt. Again the rebounding was attrocious and I hope they focus on hammering it more inside, and we see more deep post from Amath.


Alot of this seems knee-jerk as far as things like complaining about the rebounding, etc. Plus, enthusiasm for the 3 new guards needs to be tempered because yes they are freshmen and there will be growing pains. But I'm just telling you my opinion of what i saw, and I like it... It feels like there are lots of talented pieces for Lon to work with, and now if he can just refine and meld them together... The thing I love the most is the focus on D, and overall effort and attitude. While i know that starting lineup will probably change, my hats off to Clark, Grooms, and Fitz for maintaining great attitudes(it appears) and being team players.. Maybe this year we can hang on to some of those first half leads and beat some good teams. If this squad continues to improve there's no reason we can't beat anyone in our conference at home...

Again I want to say all you guys who go to practice and provide valuable insight(Gary, VBDAD) keep it up, the info stream is appreciated for those out of state!:billy
 
Stikboy said:
Well much to my excitement I stumbled on to the fact that 1757 showed the Washburn game. I think I'm really going to like this Soonersports.tv/Fox/OU network stuff.

Anyway, as far as the game, I came away very excited. Just from the sheer influx of talent, athletic ability, and yes, scoring on display. While I know basketball isn't all just about athleticism I think we as fans have reason to be excited about the new guys. I was pumped about the fact that we had 3 new starters, and I liked what I saw.

Backcourt---

Here is where the bulk of my enthusiam lies. All three of our new guards are vastly better, overall tools-wise, than anyone we had on campus, by a large margin. They are all athletic, fast, have handles, can play defense, and something that i can't really believe no one is mentioning, THEY CAN SHOOT. Now I hope I'm not jinxing them, but all three of their shooting numbers have been sick. It's just one game, but combined they were like 8-10 from 3? And they had good percentages in the scrimmages also. Now only a fool would think they can keep it up at this clip but at least we know when they square up for an open J there's a better than average chance it's going in..

Cam Clark is frustrating to watch. He looks like a thoroughbred waiting to be unleashed but it still seems that he can't find his flow within the offense. I hope Lon can meld him a role and maximize his talents.

Pledger is Pledger. His shot has been money, and he has always seemed like a heady player. He has no handles(zero left hand) and can't play D near as well as the other guys, but his scoring(at least his outside shot) will definitely help us.

Hield looks great. Athletic, can create shot, can score beyond the arc, rebounds, can handle and appears to love playing D. Got 3 steals.

Hornbeak didn't show as much because he may have gotten in foul trouble? Not sure. But he was all nets on his 3s and I wish as the 2 he would try to maybe assert himself more. He seems to just blend in. Has great quicks, handles, etc.

Cousins had good and bad. He has good size, can handle/pass/shoot. Obviously he'll bring the scoring dimension that Grooms lacks. He did have a few turnovers, but it was his first collegiate contest against a team not his own. He'll improve on that.

Grooms appears to be the same guy, which isn't totally a bad thing. He is silky smooth with the ball, plays D, and can pass. Really everything you want in a PG except some scoring. When Grooms comes in it just seems to stabilize things...

Overall I love the depth and upgraded talent in the backcourt. The freshmen had some turnovers in this game but again let's not knee-jerk. Realize how much better and under control they'll get with experience.

Frontcourt--

I have be honest I was underwhelmed and a little disappointed. I don't sit there and count every rebound but it seemed like Washburn outrebounded the heck out of us. Maybe the numbers said we won that battle, and I know that Washburn is a good D2, but man it looked bad to me. Didn't really see any post moves from Fitz, MBaye, or Ro either.

Romero looked the same. I hope he has a great senior year. He's big, athletic, has a nice touch. Great leader.. Hope he can develop more post moves.

Amath, honestly, I thought would be more of a back to the basket guy. Now, he is VERY skilled and can do a lot of things. But to me he seems like his skillset is a tall 3. He isn't as rangy and muscular as I thought, he's thin. Will he hold up in the Big 12 being an inside guy? Rebound? We need lots of rebounds from him. He will be able to create matchup problems for less skilled and athletic 4s.

Fitz looks the same except it does look like he's worked on his body. Good for him. Looks like he's having a good attitude so far on losing his starting position. Good offensive guy, wish he'd mix it up more offensively with more post moves instead of the 15 footers all the time. Needs to use that butt(because he can't jump) and space himself some rebounds..

Overall frontcourt wise I was less impressed than with our backcourt. Again the rebounding was attrocious and I hope they focus on hammering it more inside, and we see more deep post from Amath.


Alot of this seems knee-jerk as far as things like complaining about the rebounding, etc. Plus, enthusiasm for the 3 new guards needs to be tempered because yes they are freshmen and there will be growing pains. But I'm just telling you my opinion of what i saw, and I like it... It feels like there are lots of talented pieces for Lon to work with, and now if he can just refine and meld them together... The thing I love the most is the focus on D, and overall effort and attitude. While i know that starting lineup will probably change, my hats off to Clark, Grooms, and Fitz for maintaining great attitudes(it appears) and being team players.. Maybe this year we can hang on to some of those first half leads and beat some good teams. If this squad continues to improve there's no reason we can't beat anyone in our conference at home...

Again I want to say all you guys who go to practice and provide valuable insight(Gary, VBDAD) keep it up, the info stream is appreciated for those out of state!:billy
Click to expand...



Thanks for taking the time and effort to post your observations and opinions. I think you are dead on about M'Baye. He may be replacing Fitz in the staring lineup. But, he doesn't play the same position as Fitz. He isn't a back to the basket player. In practice they spend alot of time working on how to get the ball to him at the elbow while facing the basket. He is either taking a bigger slower defender off the dribble or hitting a jumper when open. It actually worked out that way a couple of times against Washburn.

And actually, it has taken alittle time for the freshman guard's shot to come around on a consistant basis in practice. I was pleased and alittle surprised that it came together so well for them. Cousins has not been a turnover machine. I was alittle surprised that he let the moment get the best of him. He will get better.
 
Stikboy said:
Backcourt---

Here is where the bulk of my enthusiam lies. All three of our new guards are vastly better, overall tools-wise, than anyone we had on campus, by a large margin. They are all athletic, fast, have handles, can play defense, and something that i can't really believe no one is mentioning, THEY CAN SHOOT. Now I hope I'm not jinxing them, but all three of their shooting numbers have been sick. It's just one game, but combined they were like 8-10 from 3? And they had good percentages in the scrimmages also. Now only a fool would think they can keep it up at this clip but at least we know when they square up for an open J there's a better than average chance it's going in..
Click to expand...

Ah-Oh. Only a matter of time until the normal crowd comes to bash you about saying pledger or a few other guys arent superior.
 
In your opinion Gary do you think Cousins holds on the point in conference? And as far as the shooting, what did you see in practice? I know last year if Pledger was off, we weren't hitting 3s. It was bad. So, do you think the freshmen guards will be consistent from outside or do you think they all just had a great game? They hit 3s in the scrimmages too. After last year, I think ALOT more wins can come from just hitting a few more 3s from different people, and closing out other team's 3s better...
 
luckyc1423 said:
Ah-Oh. Only a matter of time until the normal crowd comes to bash you about saying pledger or a few other guys arent superior.
Click to expand...

I'm just going on what I saw/have seen, and I can tell you I'm for ALL our players. Not meant to offend..:neal
 
Good report Stickboy. I was working and didn't get to see the game. I'm super excited about what everyone is saying about OUr young guns. Will be fun watching them grow up before OUr eyes......
 
As good as we played at times defensively, it would have looked a lot better if we had rebounded better. If we can translate the energy we had in contesting shots, rotating, and getting hands in passing lanes to rebounding, we will be much better defensively.
 
KBaden145 said:
As good as we played at times defensively, it would have looked a lot better if we had rebounded better. If we can translate the energy we had in contesting shots, rotating, and getting hands in passing lanes to rebounding, we will be much better defensively.
Click to expand...

Did the guards seem to be helping at all with the rebounding???? I remember KS would always emphasize the guards had to help on the boards, especially when we didn't have dominant rebounders. Do any of the younguns look like they could become decent rebounders from the perimeter????
 
jmizzy4ou said:
Did the guards seem to be helping at all with the rebounding???? I remember KS would always emphasize the guards had to help on the boards, especially when we didn't have dominant rebounders. Do any of the younguns look like they could become decent rebounders from the perimeter????
Click to expand...

Hield is a really physical guy for only being 6-3. All 3 FR will get in there eventually. Pledger will mix it up some. I was mostly disappointed with our defensive board work and a lot of that falls on the bigs. MBaye is thin. We got a lot of tips but didn't come down with it enough. Have to be stronger with the ball, which also includes loose balls, 50-50 balls, etc. They got a lot of those. I actually thought our 2nd unit guys rebounded better.
 
Stikboy said:
In your opinion Gary do you think Cousins holds on the point in conference? And as far as the shooting, what did you see in practice? I know last year if Pledger was off, we weren't hitting 3s. It was bad. So, do you think the freshmen guards will be consistent from outside or do you think they all just had a great game? They hit 3s in the scrimmages too. After last year, I think ALOT more wins can come from just hitting a few more 3s from different people, and closing out other team's 3s better...
Click to expand...

I think the starting point guards job was Cousins to lose from the day they signed him. Just like the job was Grooms to lose the day they signed him. I don't think Cousins will lose it.

All three of those guards are good shooters. None of them were shooting particularly well early on. It sure is starting to come around though. Now, I feel as though Hornbeak is easily the most accurate of the 3. But, he doesn't seem as aggressive about wanting to get a shot off.
 
I think all three freshmen shoot nearly as well and maybe as well as Pledger. They also get open more. They do it consistently in practice and have also shot well in the scrimmages.
 
SoonerinNC said:
I think all three freshmen shoot nearly as well and maybe as well as Pledger.
Click to expand...

We'll be a top 10 team in the country if we have 3-4 guards that can shoot over 40% from three, in games. :clap
 
I think it probably takes more than a bunch of 40% 3 pt. shooters to be a top 10 team. But, I doubt that Kruger thinks any of them are more accurate than Pledger. If they were, there wouldn't be any reason to have Pledger in the starting rotation. And much to my chagrin, he seems to be sticking in there.
 
Washburn plays Kansas tonight. FWIW.
 
WTSooner said:
We'll be a top 10 team in the country if we have 3-4 guards that can shoot over 40% from three, in games. :clap
Click to expand...

We don't even have to have guys shooting above 40% to be a much better offensive team. If OU can just have one guy above 40% and several in the upper 30% range (say 35%, 37% and 38.5%), OU will be substantially improved. Last season Blair (27.3%), Clark (27.8%) and Grooms (20%) all shot well below 30% from 3 point range. Neal was below 35% from 3 point range. Better shooting will make a huge difference on the offensive end. Teams really didn't have to defend Grooms' shot or Blair's shot. In fact, they probably wanted them to shoot. Hopefully these freshman will make teams worry about their shooting.

Bottom line and regardless of the starting lineup, OU should have a bench this year and I think that bench will average 25+ a game. They got better than that against Washburn (37 points) and neither Fitzgerald nor Clark had a particularly productive game. We know both of them have averaged 12.5 and 9 in two Big XII seasons.

I would expect minutes to favor 7 or 8 guys come conference time but those guys getting the bulk of the bench minutes are going to be able to score points.
 
DenverSooner said:
We don't even have to have guys shooting above 40% to be a much better offensive team. If OU can just have one guy above 40% and several in the upper 30% range (say 35%, 37% and 38.5%), OU will be substantially improved. Last season Blair (27.3%), Clark (27.8%) and Grooms (20%) all shot well below 30% from 3 point range. Neal was below 35% from 3 point range. Better shooting will make a huge difference on the offensive end. Teams really didn't have to defend Grooms' shot or Blair's shot. In fact, they probably wanted them to shoot. Hopefully these freshman will make teams worry about their shooting.

Bottom line and regardless of the starting lineup, OU should have a bench this year and I think that bench will average 25+ a game. They got better than that against Washburn (37 points) and neither Fitzgerald nor Clark had a particularly productive game. We know both of them have averaged 12.5 and 9 in two Big XII seasons.

I would expect minutes to favor 7 or 8 guys come conference time but those guys getting the bulk of the bench minutes are going to be able to score points.
Click to expand...


Oh, I don't disagree. If the guards other than Pledger can just manage something around 35%, we'll see marked improvement. If we can get one of them up around 38% or so, that would be awesome for this year.
 
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