What Bernie Sanders is offering

thebigabd

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-Free College tuition at Public Universities

-$15 an hour federal minimum wage

-Guaranteeing healthcare as a right of citizenship by enacting a Medicare for all single-payer healthcare system. It’s time for the U.S. to join every major industrialized country on earth and provide universal healthcare to all.

-Requiring employers to provide at least 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave; two weeks of paid vacation; and 7 days of paid sick days. Real family values are about making sure that parents have the time they need to bond with their babies and take care of their children and relatives when they get ill.

-Enacting a universal childcare and prekindergarten program. Every psychologist understands that the most formative years for a human being is from the ages 0-4. We have got to make sure every family in America has the opportunity to send their kids to a high quality childcare and pre-K program

Free kindergarten, more time off work, free college, doubled minimum wage.... plus a whole lot more! Sounds like Europe.
 
A couple of thoughts:

Some of these ideas may sound sweet on the surface (and I would disagree with some of your assertions especially regarding pre-K and Kindergarten formative theory), but the encroaching "larger role" of government in our lives is NOT was America was founded on. Our creators would roll over in their graves if these types of ideas were actually being taken seriously.

Unfortunately as you said, these types of ideas are migrating us towards a worldview of "equality of outcomes"...i.e Europe. The "transformation of America" is in overdrive as America moves away from what it used to stand for. IMO, there is a moral dimension to smaller government...it's not an economic question or dimension. We give far more charity per capita than Europeans do...so why is that? Are we born better? No, but the bigger the government, the worse the citizen. The government assumes the "charity" role.

The ideas that Sanders has described are a microcosm of the mindset of western Europe. For example, western Europeans are preoccupied with how much time off can they get from work, how early can they retire or where are they going to vacation. These are selfish motives and not altruistic in any way.

Abraham Lincoln once said that America is the last best hope for earth (mankind). It will not be the last best hope for earth if we become like Western Europe. It's fair to assume that no one has ever said that Sweden or Denmark are the last best hope for mankind. Many people on the left do not believe in American "exceptionalism". Before that term gets distorted, it does NOT mean we are better or smarter than everyone. However, it does mean that America is an "exception" to the rule in that we don't live in tyranny and bondage. Since civilized history began, most people who have walked the earth have lived under bondage or abject fear of despots or whomever held power over them. Instead, we offer liberty, hope and freedom in our ordinary lives. When the United States was founded, it was the first time in history that a country was founded on the belief that leaders TRULY serve the population. Intrusive governmental policies, as benign and well-intentioned as they may seem, are a threat to that because incrementally we lose our freedom and a segment of our society become reliant on those policies.

Having said all of that, when the government begins to mandate that private companies conform or else....well, that is frightening. Usually, the best answer is to go work for a company who has the "family" policies and time off requirements that are in-line with your life/priorities.
 
-Free College tuition at Public Universities

-$15 an hour federal minimum wage

-Guaranteeing healthcare as a right of citizenship by enacting a Medicare for all single-payer healthcare system. It’s time for the U.S. to join every major industrialized country on earth and provide universal healthcare to all.

-Requiring employers to provide at least 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave; two weeks of paid vacation; and 7 days of paid sick days. Real family values are about making sure that parents have the time they need to bond with their babies and take care of their children and relatives when they get ill.

-Enacting a universal childcare and prekindergarten program. Every psychologist understands that the most formative years for a human being is from the ages 0-4. We have got to make sure every family in America has the opportunity to send their kids to a high quality childcare and pre-K program

Free kindergarten, more time off work, free college, doubled minimum wage.... plus a whole lot more! Sounds like Europe.
sounds like a whole lot of revenue is going to be needed to do this.

The only one I really have a big issue with is free public universities. Too many kids go to college as it is....this will only make it worse
 
It has been acknowledged in this thread that what Sanders is suggesting is similar to what most industrial nations around the world, not just Europe, already have. It's rather difficult to say it doesn't work when it is working quite well in most of the world's major economies.

We have permitted the JP Morgan/Andrew Carnegie version of what the founding fathers were trying to create to become the dominant attitude in the country. But, is it really valid? Theodore Roosevelt made the comment that the resources vital to the welfare of the nation should be under the control of the people of the nation. Exactly what does that mean?

The founding fathers were not particularly concerned with theories of economics. They founded the country on principles of philosophy and human rights. I don't recall a single time that capitalism was mentioned. Theodore Roosevelt decried the runaway capitalism of the era, which is not unlike the runaway capitalism of today. There is no such thing as a right to be a totally capitalistic society. For some reason, we value stock ownership above all else.

If you examine all the the little wooden crosses in the national cemeteries around the world, I have yet to see anyone who stated that they died for capitalism or for General Motors. They died for the rights of a people. Now, who inherits their sacrifice---shareholders? How many of them died so that their parents' jobs would be shipped overseas by the stockholders of a company that had been nourished and allowed to flourish in a nation for which they had died? Were these corporations the beneficiary of the sacrifices of a nation?

That sounds a lot like the ranchers that insisted that no fences should be built across the open range, who opposed the settlement by farmers that led to towns and churches and schools, all of which were erected not by the ranchers, but by those who were building the future of a community. Those within a community contributed the resources and the labor to build their communities, including all of the infrastructure therein, as a group (kind of socialistic, isn't it).

In reality, if those who died opposing the British had thought that they were fighting to uphold some stockholder or landowner, they would probably have sat out the revolutionary war. They were fighting so that they, too, would have a piece of the pie. We have always wanted the pie to be distributed to everyone. It has been the natural progression of mankind from the first caveman with a club to present day to take the power from the strongest man with a group effort. With power went control of assets. We went through stages like the Greek Democracy in which only landowners had the right to vote. We went through the Magna Carta which simply diminished the wealth of the king and spread it among noblemen. Now, more and more nations try to spread the power and assets to greater numbers. The resistance to such change has always been strong because it means giving up control to someone else. Your power is more limited. And, many have opposed such distributions of power, which is why we have guillotines.

Those little white crosses wanted we the people to have the assets of the nation for which they died. They weren't dying for philosophy or General Motors. They died for the rights of their families and for their welfare. We do have this one phrase in the Preamble that is often ignored, "promote the general welfare."

Sanders is not alone or new. This is nothing more than the same philosophy that others have had for centuries, like Theodore Roosevelt, of promoting the general welfare. Rule by the rich gives us the nonsense of 1% having all of the wealth, with none of the sacrifice. We meant to build a community, a nation, that was for all of us. And, we will.
 
Syba,

Excellent post. Nothing else to say except... outstanding post. I've read it 2-3 times now. Very well said.
 
Thanks Syb. Well said.

We claim to be a Christian Nation. Some need to go back and read the story of the rich man and Lazarus and think about the lesson Jesus was teaching.

One suggestion. Don't be fooled. The rich man would be all in for keeping all of his and letting the crumbs from his table "trickle down" to those below. In fact, if he were here today (think about where he is) he would be leading the bandwagon of anyone who opposes helping others - directly.

I can hear him now. "But they are getting the crumbs from my table. They are trickling right down. If I have less I will have less trash I don't want that they can pick up off of the floor".
 
We claim to be a Christian Nation.

I won't pretend to know your stance, but the people that use this phrase you just wrote, trying to advance their beliefs, are the same ones that ok with homosexual marriages and abortion.

So yeah
 
I won't pretend to know your stance, but the people that use this phrase you just wrote, trying to advance their beliefs, are the same ones that ok with homosexual marriages and abortion.

So yeah

Well actually they are the same ones who oppose those things. But it has nothing to do with this discussion.
 
Well actually they are the same ones who oppose those things.
Very very debatable. The left loves the pope when speaking about loving everyone. Being pro environment. Helping the poor. Equality. Then they ridicule him when he talks about being anti abortion. Can't have your cake and eat it to.

But it has nothing to do with this discussion.
You brought religion into it:D
 
It's funny to me that some people are not pro environment, lol. Why isn't everyone pro environment? Shouldn't everyone care about the quality of the only planet we have access to? At the end of the day we need trees, we need clean air, we need clean water, we need good soil, we need healthy animal populations... I know that pesky environment can get in the way of big business, but it seems like even big money/business people should care about the planet they live on.
 
I won't pretend to know your stance, but the people that use this phrase you just wrote, trying to advance their beliefs, are the same ones that ok with homosexual marriages and abortion.

So yeah

Yep!
 
If you don't like that somebody is getting rich off the people, create a better system/product/service, offer if for less than they do, make that money yourself, and do with it as you please. Or offer it for break even and "help the people".

Oh, you don't want to work that hard? Tough titty then. Stop complaining that at some point, somebody else DID work that hard. They don't owe an apology to anybody for their successes. This is America, somebody can always come along and compete if they have better ideas.
 
So we can be more like Europe, when are the Austerity Cuts and loan defaults coming?
 
So we can be more like Europe, when are the Austerity Cuts and loan defaults coming?

I've got bad news for you, Max. Those loan defaults already arrived. Several years ago in the final year of W's presidency.

Those of you who were/are nearing retirement bore the brunt of it, but everyone with a retirement account got damaged pretty badly. The stock market is just back to where it was back then. Think about it. That means we all just spent 8 years with no increase in our basic stock accounts - which unfortunately is where most people keep theirs. Time is what makes retirement accounts pay off, but most folks just lost almost a decade of growth. For those nearing retirement, you will never make it back up. Your savings were just raided and handed over to wall street and it's fat cats.
 
It's funny to me that some people are not pro environment, lol. Why isn't everyone pro environment? Shouldn't everyone care about the quality of the only planet we have access to? At the end of the day we need trees, we need clean air, we need clean water, we need good soil, we need healthy animal populations... I know that pesky environment can get in the way of big business, but it seems like even big money/business people should care about the planet they live on.

yes everyone should and mostly is pro environment. that isn't the issue. The issue is politics, incorrect or misleading data, and placing the environment ahead of more important issues
 
I've got bad news for you, Max. Those loan defaults already arrived. Several years ago in the obama reign.

Those of you who were/are nearing retirement bore the brunt of it, but everyone with a retirement account got damaged pretty badly. The stock market is just back to where it was back then. Think about it. That means we all just spent 8 years with no increase in our basic stock accounts - which unfortunately is where most people keep theirs. Time is what makes retirement accounts pay off, but most folks just lost almost a decade of growth. For those nearing retirement, you will never make it back up. Your savings were just raided and handed over to wall street and it's fat cats.

fixed
 
Wall Street certainly played a role but no one points out that the government forcing banks to make bad loans and the government requiring Freddy and Fannie to buy up at least 50% of those bad loans having a lot to do with the crash.

A lot of the later events got a lot more publicity but Freddie and Fannie were the first to go under and they are still doing a lot of the same today. Dodd/Frank did nothing to clean up that mess and the taxpayers are holding them up now to cover their deficits.

As usual the press ignores that Dodd Frank is causing small banks who make the most loans to small business to close their doors. They are also conveniently ignoring Freddy and Fannie and everything else that would indicate any problem in our current administration.
 
NC, I'm sorry to see you on that side of the discussion. But, let's be a bit more accurate. After the twenties, we regulated banks and savings and loans rather stringently so that they would not likely fail again, also installing the FDIC and FSLIC. One of the things that we did was to restrict the amount of money that a bank or S&L could put into securities. A great deal of the cash had to be in government securities.

We began a decline in regulations when Reagan was in office, and once again, banks and S&Ls began to fold. Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac had nothing to do with it. The deregulation coupled with regulators who were essentially instructed not to do their jobs instigated it. Unfortunately, even Clinton continued the deregulation, being a rather non-courageous character who wanted Wall Street on his side.

It continued through the early Bush years primarily because Bush told regulators in everything to lay off doing their jobs: SEC, banking, EPA, etc. Even the INS did nothing. But, another development began that was totally destructive to the industry, and it had nothing to do with Fannie May and Freddie Mac. The anti-regulation crowd loves to blame them, but they were not responsible for the bundling of phony loans.

We had some wildcat mortgage operations that gave loans to anything that was willing to sign a loan paper. The victims were actually glad to have the opportunity to buy a home and thought they were getting a good deal. But, the phony mortgage companies used fraudulent income sources and ignored liabilities to create what looked like a solid loan on paper. People who couldn't qualify to get a motel room were set up on $200,000 mortgages when their jobs might have supported a pup tent. They were not helped because they couldn't begin to pay for the loan, except that some of them were ARMs with low first year schedules. But, the phony mortgage company had initiated a loan that would never be paid off. Now, they bundled these into packages with some other loans and sold them to somewhat unsuspecting banking institutions who now owned a lot of worthless paper. Some of them knew it was worthless. A lot didn't. But, this was supposedly now a security, a debenture. It really shouldn't have qualified as a security, much more of an insecurity. But, once again, it was the type of thing that a bank could not have invested in some thirty years earlier. But, this was only one of the things that caused this meltdown. It was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back.

I think that step one may have been the phony oil and real estate loans of the seventies and eighties. We created some absurd real estate and oil loans, largely based on developmental tax write-offs. We built buildings that were never expected to be office buildings, overdeveloping a lot of large cities, by giving 2 and 3 to 1 writeoffs on development. People invested, not to make a profit, because it almost never did. They invested to get the tax writeoff. When tax rate is 50%, a 3-1 writeoff means that you profit even if you never get a penny back. Your writeoff was more than your investment.

But, it also resulted in some extremely fraudulent loans or mortgages on large buildings, many of which were held by pension accounts, insurance companies, and banks. As an example, one building had a $500,000,000 mortgage. Not a penny of interest was paid on the mortgage. Why wasn't it called for default? If that mortgage had gone into default, the insurance company that held the mortgage would have gone into default. So, they kept it on the books as viable even though it wasn't. The same developer had caused the state's teacher retirement program to lose about $200,000,000 in loans that had been made for real estate construction that were never paid off. Who paid their retirement? How do you think he got the loan.

There were other problems with deregulation of S&Ls. I watched a firm started by a couple of sisters who were a secretary and a stockroom clerk. They got $75,000 with no collateral from an S&L to start an interior decorating firm. When they couldn't pay back a penny, they got another $50,000. Of course, since neither knew anything about how to start an interior decorating business, thinking it was in storefront walk-in traffic, they folded.

These types of things were going on because the people in control of regulation were told to look the other way. In the seventies, there were a number of Dallas banks that were Texas owned. In 1990, ALL had been sold because every one of them had gone bad. Most sold to NC banks. They had all been involved in real estate and oil loans that were essentially fraudulent. But, who was regulating them?

If you look at some of the European failures, they had something to do with some moves that they pulled in conjunction with some of these fraudulent American banking operations.

So, don't blame this nonsense on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This was due to the fraudulent packaging of loans and the lack of regulatory activity. In some cases, the regulations were there. They had just been told not to do it. This was capitalism gone corrupt, and they resisted every attempt to reel in the fraud as being socialism. Even Adam Smith knew that capitalism requires regulation. Theodore Roosevelt made a career of it.
 
Syba,

Another outstanding post... again, nothing else to say. Well done.
 
mostly what he is offering is a massive shift of wealth from the united states to the 3rd world ..
 
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