A year ago today - 12/20/2009

[40 Cal]

Reputations as good recruiters
Both coached at Oklahoma
Both took over programs that hadn't had a losing season in over 20 years (26 for Capel; 30 for Blake)
Both had multiple losing seasons
Both were in over their head at OU
Both were the first African-American coach in program history


Do I need to name more?

:facepalm
Here is a quick question since you know a lot about OU basketball, so far how many losing season has Capel had?
1 would be the correct answer last year. Until the end of the season this one doesn't count. The reason why is the season isn't over yet. So no he doesn't compare to Blake on that one. I also believe Tubbs first year was the last losing season and that was 1981
Capel over his head is all opinion.
Capel has recruited 4 Mcdonald's All Americans and four players have been drafted in the NBA, so pretty good there.
Coached at OU and first African-American coach in the program, that means they can be compared, smh.

I need better then that.

 

[NickZepp]

:facepalm
Here is a quick question since you know a lot about OU basketball, so far how many losing season has Capel had?
1 would be the correct answer last year. Until the end of the season this one doesn't count. The reason why is the season isn't over yet. So no he doesn't compare to Blake on that one. I also believe Tubbs first year was the last losing season and that was 1981
Capel over his head is all opinion.
Capel has recruited 4 Mcdonald's All Americans and four players have been drafted in the NBA, so pretty good there.
Coached at OU and first African-American coach in the program, that means they can be compared, smh.

I need better then that.

You really think this year will not be a losing season?

 

[40 Cal]

You really think this year will not be a losing season?

I am not saying it is going to be a winning or a loosing season. We are in the middle of the season, we are at .500. That's all I know. It's not March yet. I will tell you after the season what it will be.

 

[Big Old Booger]

:facepalm
Here is a quick question since you know a lot about OU basketball, so far how many losing season has Capel had?
1 would be the correct answer last year. Until the end of the season this one doesn't count. The reason why is the season isn't over yet. So no he doesn't compare to Blake on that one. I also believe Tubbs first year was the last losing season and that was 1981
Capel over his head is all opinion.
Capel has recruited 4 Mcdonald's All Americans and four players have been drafted in the NBA, so pretty good there.
Coached at OU and first African-American coach in the program, that means they can be compared, smh.

I need better then that.

In conference, Capel has had 2 losing seasons.
Capel has had 2 players drafted into the NBA. Blake was a lottery pick before he stepped foot on campus, and truthfully, if Sampson hadn't recruited Taylor, Blake wouldn't have come to OU anyway. So, as I've stated before, Capel doesn't get all the credit for Blake.

Please don't compare Tubbs first year to any year under Capel. Bliss didn't recruit his last year in Norman because he wanted out of Norman. Tubbs was handed a program who's best player (Ray "Juice" Whitley) had a devastating knee injury and wasn't able to play his first year, but the rest of the talent was probably equal to what OU has this year, except they didn't have a player as good offensively as Fitz. Regardless, that was Tubbs 1st year while last year was Capel's 4th and this is his 5th.

Honestly, I don't care how many burger boys Capel has recruited, only 1 panned out. The other 3 were malcontents and left the program in worse shape than it was before they arrived.

I think it's obvious Capel is in over his head. I think that's a better way to say it than to say he can't coach (it's one or the other; either he can't coach or he's in over his head). If you would prefer to say he can't coach, then so be it, I won't stop you, but I refuse to believe that. I simply think he's in over his head. He should have never been given a program as good as OU this young in his coaching career. Just like Blake shouldn't have been hired at OU as his first HC job and he had never even been a DC.

Like I said, plenty of valid comparisons.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I am not saying it is going to be a winning or a loosing season. We are in the middle of the season, we are at .500. That's all I know. It's not March yet. I will tell you after the season what it will be.

Would you like to piggy back on the bet with the other poster who bet me $100 that OU would win at least 19 games? You seem pretty confident so put your money where your mouth is. I say they won't win 19 games, he said they would. This bet was made last April.

 

[Sam]

Blake Griffin 2009 1st round pick
Taylor Griffin 2009 2nd round pick
Willie Warren 2010 2nd round pick
Tiny Gallon 2010 2nd round pick.

That looks like 4 unless the Griffins don't count.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Blake Griffin 2009 1st round pick
Taylor Griffin 2009 2nd round pick
Willie Warren 2010 2nd round pick
Tiny Gallon 2010 2nd round pick.

That looks like 4 unless the Griffins don't count.

Taylor Griffin was a Kelvin recruit.

NOTE: in my previous response, I was only counting players who are currently on a roster. That equals 2 at this point.

 

[Sam]

Fair enough on the Kelvin recruitment angle but since Taylor played three years for Capel over the one year for Kelvin I give Capel some credit for Taylor getting drafted.

While Tiny and Taylor's stints in the NBA have been short lived I believe 40 CAL was arguing the point of drafted players not just current roster. So unless you were just changing the subject his argument of 4 drafted over 2 should still be quite valid.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Fair enough on the Kelvin recruitment angle but since Taylor played three years for Capel over the one year for Kelvin I give Capel some credit for Taylor getting drafted.

While Tiny and Taylor's stints in the NBA have been short lived I believe 40 CAL was arguing the point of drafted players not just current roster. So unless you were just changing the subject his argument of 4 drafted over 2 should still be quite valid.

Like I said, when I replied it was only 2, I was thinking of players on a roster. I can't really argue that Capel has coached 4 players who were drafted because those are facts.

 

[40 Cal]

In conference, Capel has had 2 losing seasons.
Capel has had 2 players drafted into the NBA. Blake was a lottery pick before he stepped foot on campus, and truthfully, if Sampson hadn't recruited Taylor, Blake wouldn't have come to OU anyway. So, as I've stated before, Capel doesn't get all the credit for Blake.

Please don't compare Tubbs first year to any year under Capel. Bliss didn't recruit his last year in Norman because he wanted out of Norman. Tubbs was handed a program who's best player (Ray "Juice" Whitley) had a devastating knee injury and wasn't able to play his first year, but the rest of the talent was probably equal to what OU has this year, except they didn't have a player as good offensively as Fitz. Regardless, that was Tubbs 1st year while last year was Capel's 4th and this is his 5th.

Honestly, I don't care how many burger boys Capel has recruited, only 1 panned out. The other 3 were malcontents and left the program in worse shape than it was before they arrived.

I think it's obvious Capel is in over his head. I think that's a better way to say it than to say he can't coach (it's one or the other; either he can't coach or he's in over his head). If you would prefer to say he can't coach, then so be it, I won't stop you, but I refuse to believe that. I simply think he's in over his head. He should have never been given a program as good as OU this young in his coaching career. Just like Blake shouldn't have been hired at OU as his first HC job and he had never even been a DC.

Like I said, plenty of valid comparisons.

No all yours were plenty of bad comparisons. Check your facts I proved you wrong on all them, it shows how much you know about OU basketball. Two players drafted, are you kidding me. Blake counts as 1, Taylor 2, Willie 3, Tiny 4, it doesn't matter if they stayed it all stills counts as drafted. Taylor wanted out and is a known fact, Capel got him to stay. Also Capel didn't ever use Taylor to get Blake. He recruited Blake like he was any other player and his brother wasn't a recruiting pitch. Conference really wow you said loosing season sorry I was going off of what you said and you know Tubbs had loosing conference play in 1994 and 1991. In a time you claimed to go to school at OU and that wasn't 26 years ago that was 16 and 19 after this season 17 and 20. Getting All American recruits is saying you got some of the best out of that years class and shows you can recruit. I didn't compare Tubbs first year to Capels buddy, read what I said, that was the last loosing season. If you were smart enough you would have figured that out. You thinking shows how much you know about this program. Well this wasn't Capels first HC, so please don't say that is something you can compare Capel to Blake with. I think you are over you head in this.

 

[40 Cal]

Would you like to piggy back on the bet with the other poster who bet me $100 that OU would win at least 19 games? You seem pretty confident so put your money where your mouth is. I say they won't win 19 games, he said they would. This bet was made last April.

:facepalmSad day. You bet against a team you say you are fan for, smh.:facepalm

 

[Big Old Booger]

:facepalmSad day. You bet against a team you say you are fan for, smh.:facepalm

If you read the original thread when the bet was made, I was called out to bet. I didn't have many choices. Romulus took the same bet. Both of us said we didn't want to do it because we didn't want to bet against our team.

I said in the thread if OU didn't win 19 games, I'd want the loser to donate $100 to a charity of his choice. However, my family started a womens basketball scholarship fund when my dad died 8 years ago. I think now I'd prefer he made a deposit of $100 in his name to my dad's scholarship fund.

 

[Big Old Booger]

No all yours were plenty of bad comparisons. Check your facts I proved you wrong on all them, it shows how much you know about OU basketball. Two players drafted, are you kidding me. Blake counts as 1, Taylor 2, Willie 3, Tiny 4, it doesn't matter if they stayed it all stills counts as drafted. Taylor wanted out and is a known fact, Capel got him to stay. Also Capel didn't ever use Taylor to get Blake. He recruited Blake like he was any other player and his brother wasn't a recruiting pitch. Conference really wow you said loosing season sorry I was going off of what you said and you know Tubbs had loosing conference play in 1994 and 1991. In a time you claimed to go to school at OU and that wasn't 26 years ago that was 16 and 19 after this season 17 and 20. Getting All American recruits is saying you got some of the best out of that years class and shows you can recruit. I didn't compare Tubbs first year to Capels buddy, read what I said, that was the last loosing season. If you were smart enough you would have figured that out. You thinking shows how much you know about this program. Well this wasn't Capels first HC, so please don't say that is something you can compare Capel to Blake with. I think you are over you head in this.

Like I said in a previous reply, I said 2 players because only 2 are on NBA rosters. I misread your previous reply, but SoonerSam pointed that out and I admitted I was wrong.

It's not a known fact that Taylor wanted out. That is hearsay. Someone posted the article where this was mentioned and in the article Taylor said "I told Blake I may not be here (next year)". He never said, I'm gone. Nobody knows, he could have changed his mind and decided to stay. In the same article, Blake was ready to commit to OU until Taylor told him to hold off. I think that's a pretty good sign Blake was going wherever Taylor was and Sampson knew that and that's why he decided to recruit Taylor.

Capel didn't have to use Taylor to recruit Blake. It was known throughout Oklahoma HS basketball that the 2 Griffin boys wanted to play together. Ask any family friend of the Griffins and they will tell you the same thing.

I vividly remember the 91 and 94 seasons. In 1991, Tubbs was handcuffed because all of his best players from the 90 team, that was preseason ranked #1 were declared ineligible (Jackie Jones, Smokey McCovery, and Damon Patterson) because the University, specifically Dr. Tom Hill, changed the eligibility rules for athletes. Hill should have made the changes effective after the following year so it didn't interfere with any of the current athletes, but he did not and they all left and Tubbs was high and dry. They did have a losing record in conference that season, but they made the NIT and they ended up in the finals of the NIT. Capel's first year didn't make postseason play, and in 2007 more teams advanced to postseason play than in 1991. They have 3 postseason tournaments now and OU didn't make a single one.

1994 was just a bad year and a definite sign Tubbs had done all he could do in Norman. I wouldn't have complained had he come back in 1995 because he had taken the program to new heights. Capel isn't afforded that same type of patience because he's done nothing but destroy a good program. Sorry, no comparison.

Once again, it doesn't matter if you sign a bunch of big name recruits if they never have an impact on the program. 3 of the burger boys he signed did more to put Capel in this predicament than they did to improve the program. He could sign 4 more just like those 3 and then he'd have 8 burger boys with 7 of them causing him to lose his job. In the end it's what you get done on the court that matters. Once again, a valid comparison to John Blake. Both thought/think if you simply sign the studs you can put them on the field/court and you will win. They still need a little direction, though.

BTW -- Thanks for the name-calling. Since you are a Capel supporter, I guess I should expect it. I don't know why you can't accept somebody else's opinion without name calling. It really prevents this community of OU basketball fans from becoming all that it can be.

 

[40 Cal]

You don't get it. It's principal, I don't bet against my team. I am not going to take the bet on 19 wins and it's not because I think they can or can't win that many games. It's the fact that it's a stupid bet. It's sad, that no matter where the money goes or what for, that a true fan would bet against his/her team. I go into every game thinking we can win it, no matter who we play. You make think Hybris, but hey the players don't go out there thinking well tonight we are going to loose. If they did why would they show up and play the game. Please don't pull the card that it's because they are getting their school paid for and they have too. Honestly I don't know how many wins or loses this team will have, but they have my support in all of them.

 

[Big Old Booger]

You don't get it. It's principal, I don't bet against my team. I am not going to take the bet on 19 wins and it's not because I think they can or can't win that many games. It's the fact that it's a stupid bet. It's sad, that no matter where the money goes or what for, that a true fan would bet against his/her team. I go into every game thinking we can win it, no matter who we play. You make think Hybris, but hey the players don't go out there thinking well tonight we are going to loose. If they did why would they show up and play the game. Please don't pull the card that it's because they are getting their school paid for and they have too. Honestly I don't know how many wins or loses this team will have, but they have my support in all of them.

Same for me. I'm supporting them, too. I hope they win every game. Problem is, they can't because they aren't getting any coaching.

Think what you want, I don't care. I've been an OU basketball fan since 1976 when I started attending OU basketball games at the age of 5. I don't need to list my qualifications as a fan to you.

BTW -- I don't go into every game thinking we can win because I know we have no coaching and very little talent. One of these isn't Jeff's fault, but one is.

 

[40 Cal]

Like I said in a previous reply, I said 2 players because only 2 are on NBA rosters. I misread your previous reply, but SoonerSam pointed that out and I admitted I was wrong.

It's not a known fact that Taylor wanted out. That is hearsay. Someone posted the article where this was mentioned and in the article Taylor said "I told Blake I may not be here (next year)". He never said, I'm gone. Nobody knows, he could have changed his mind and decided to stay. In the same article, Blake was ready to commit to OU until Taylor told him to hold off. I think that's a pretty good sign Blake was going wherever Taylor was and Sampson knew that and that's why he decided to recruit Taylor.

Capel didn't have to use Taylor to recruit Blake. It was known throughout Oklahoma HS basketball that the 2 Griffin boys wanted to play together. Ask any family friend of the Griffins and they will tell you the same thing.

I vividly remember the 91 and 94 seasons. In 1991, Tubbs was handcuffed because all of his best players from the 90 team, that was preseason ranked #1 were declared ineligible (Jackie Jones, Smokey McCovery, and Damon Patterson) because the University, specifically Dr. Tom Hill, changed the eligibility rules for athletes. Hill should have made the changes effective after the following year so it didn't interfere with any of the current athletes, but he did not and they all left and Tubbs was high and dry. They did have a losing record in conference that season, but they made the NIT and they ended up in the finals of the NIT. Capel's first year didn't make postseason play, and in 2007 more teams advanced to postseason play than in 1991. They have 3 postseason tournaments now and OU didn't make a single one.

1994 was just a bad year and a definite sign Tubbs had done all he could do in Norman. I wouldn't have complained had he come back in 1995 because he had taken the program to new heights. Capel isn't afforded that same type of patience because he's done nothing but destroy a good program. Sorry, no comparison.

Once again, it doesn't matter if you sign a bunch of big name recruits if they never have an impact on the program. 3 of the burger boys he signed did more to put Capel in this predicament than they did to improve the program. He could sign 4 more just like those 3 and then he'd have 8 burger boys with 7 of them causing him to lose his job. In the end it's what you get done on the court that matters. Once again, a valid comparison to John Blake. Both thought/think if you simply sign the studs you can put them on the field/court and you will win. They still need a little direction, though.

BTW -- Thanks for the name-calling. Since you are a Capel supporter, I guess I should expect it. I don't know why you can't accept somebody else's opinion without name calling. It really prevents this community of OU basketball fans from becoming all that it can be.

I am pretty sure you start it all in a earlier thread. Yes me sticking up for the program is bringing it down the community of OU basketball fans, does that make sense? You time and time again bash this program. So the comparison is that they both thinking bring stud players in is what can make a program win. Ok that is one comparison, but is that many like you said before. Wow you remember those years do you know how to add because I pointed those years out, not you. You changed from loosing seasons to loosing conference games in a season. Do you just keep changing to make it sound like you weren't wrong because it's not working. You did make a point though Tubbs was left high and dry and hey so was Capel. That's something you can compare, but you won't take it as vaild because of arrogance. That's something more comparable then the Blake argument. I am pretty sure Sampson left the program high and dry. Capel brought it around pretty quick and yes Blake helpped, but he is one man and others players helpped win games. Ok if you want to go with this the Griffin brother's couldn't live without each other thing, then you don't have Capel coming in and making Taylor feel like staying, then you don't get Blake. Also tell me one coach great coach that would want to come and play second fiddle to football because most big named coaches wouldn't or if they did want to stay for a long time? Name calling not really, just stating that you think you know everything and over half of what you say isn't true. If you are putting down the program then how can you be part of the community of OU basketball fans. It's sad that you hate Capel so much that you can't give any credit to him.

 

[40 Cal]

Same for me. I'm supporting them, too. I hope they win every game. Problem is, they can't because they aren't getting any coaching.

Think what you want, I don't care. I've been an OU basketball fan since 1976 when I started attending OU basketball games at the age of 5. I don't need to list my qualifications as a fan to you.

BTW -- I don't go into every game thinking we can win because I know we have no coaching and very little talent. One of these isn't Jeff's fault, but one is.

You support this team hahahahahahaha:ez-roll::ez-roll::ez-roll::ez-roll::ez-roll:, I don't see it in anything you ever say. Being negative isn't supportive. I don't care when you became a fan or how old you are, or when you started attended games. Thats all irrelevant. I live in the now, but to each their own on what they think of Capel, if you would watch he is coaching. Like I said before you keep being negative and I will stick with my positive ways.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I am pretty sure you start it all in a earlier thread. Yes me sticking up for the program is bringing it down the community of OU basketball fans, does that make sense? You time and time again bash this program. So the comparison is that they both thinking bring stud players in is what can make a program win. Ok that is one comparison, but is that many like you said before. Wow you remember those years do you know how to add because I pointed those years out, not you. You changed from loosing seasons to loosing conference games in a season. Do you just keep changing to make it sound like you weren't wrong because it's not working. You did make a point though Tubbs was left high and dry and hey so was Capel. That's something you can compare, but you won't take it as vaild because of arrogance. That's something more comparable then the Blake argument. I am pretty sure Sampson left the program high and dry. Capel brought it around pretty quick and yes Blake helpped, but he is one man and others players helpped win games. Ok if you want to go with this the Griffin brother's couldn't live without each other thing, then you don't have Capel coming in and making Taylor feel like staying, then you don't get Blake. Also tell me one coach great coach that would want to come and play second fiddle to football because most big named coaches wouldn't or if they did want to stay for a long time? Name calling not really, just stating that you think you know everything and over half of what you say isn't true. If you are putting down the program then how can you be part of the community of OU basketball fans. It's sad that you hate Capel so much that you can't give any credit to him.

Don't hate Capel. Now you are putting words in my mouth.

Capel wasn't left high and dry. Players he recruited and he knew when he recruited them they were going pro after 1 season put him in this predicament. If you are talking about his first year, then he accepted the job with a top-notch recruiting class, but him being the stellar recruiter he is couldn't get them to sign. Who's fault is that?

I'm done arguing with you about Blake and Taylor. The only fact regarding the Griffins is had Taylor not been at OU then Blake would have never come. Capel had nothing to do with Taylor coming to OU. End of story.

I never changed loosing to loosing because I never said loosed. Is that even a word? I hate to bring out the grammar police but this is at least the 5th time you have used that term and I'm sorry, I can ignore it a few, but not this many. Learn the difference. Thanks.

You and I obviously disagree on Capel. I don't think he can coach or recruit. Thats not bashing the program. I still cheer for the team and hope we win even though I know we can't because we aren't coached. I would love to see Capel surprise me and win some games, but I think we are staring at a 1-15 maybe 2-14 conference season. I wouldn't be surprised to see double-digit losses pile up and we end up 0-16 because the kids quit like they did last year. I sure hope this doesn't happen, but I think it's a real possibility at this point in time.

Say what you want about Sampson, but not one time did we enter a season with the thought we would be lucky to win 3 or 4 conference games.

OU doesn't need a great coach to win in basketball. Gregg Marshall would walk to Norman for the OU job and he would win games. Mike Anderson would have taken it had Mizzou not hired him first. Tubbs and Sampson didn't have any problems with the basketball program "playing 2nd fiddle to football". That's a loser mentality to even think that. Football can help recruit because you can take recruits to football games and show them what the sooner nation can do when they get excited. The LNC used to be just as loud when Mizzou, KU, Texas, OSU, etc., used to come to town. Not anymore.

 

[40 Cal]

Don't hate Capel. Now you are putting words in my mouth.

Capel wasn't left high and dry. Players he recruited and he knew when he recruited them they were going pro after 1 season put him in this predicament. If you are talking about his first year, then he accepted the job with a top-notch recruiting class, but him being the stellar recruiter he is couldn't get them to sign. Who's fault is that?

I'm done arguing with you about Blake and Taylor. The only fact regarding the Griffins is had Taylor not been at OU then Blake would have never come. Capel had nothing to do with Taylor coming to OU. End of story.

I never changed loosing to loosing because I never said loosed. Is that even a word? I hate to bring out the grammar police but this is at least the 5th time you have used that term and I'm sorry, I can ignore it a few, but not this many. Learn the difference. Thanks.

You and I obviously disagree on Capel. I don't think he can coach or recruit. Thats not bashing the program. I still cheer for the team and hope we win even though I know we can't because we aren't coached. I would love to see Capel surprise me and win some games, but I think we are staring at a 1-15 maybe 2-14 conference season. I wouldn't be surprised to see double-digit losses pile up and we end up 0-16 because the kids quit like they did last year. I sure hope this doesn't happen, but I think it's a real possibility at this point in time.

Say what you want about Sampson, but not one time did we enter a season with the thought we would be lucky to win 3 or 4 conference games.

OU doesn't need a great coach to win in basketball. Gregg Marshall would walk to Norman for the OU job and he would win games. Mike Anderson would have taken it had Mizzou not hired him first. Tubbs and Sampson didn't have any problems with the basketball program "playing 2nd fiddle to football". That's a loser mentality to even think that. Football can help recruit because you can take recruits to football games and show them what the sooner nation can do when they get excited. The LNC used to be just as loud when Mizzou, KU, Texas, OSU, etc., used to come to town. Not anymore.

O well on the typing errors I am doing other things, you can't add or get facts right and your suppose to be older and a fan longer and bull crap bull crap bull crap. Yeah Capel didn't get Taylor, but he got him to stay, end of story Yeah he couldn't get those players to stay, but he sure as hell tried, but most kids sign somewhere else when the coach that recruited them left. Also assuming these coaches would do fine is smart. Also have you been to a game in the last 3 years. Last year OSU and texas were packed. It was loud it was crazy. So no once again you are wrong about how it's not loud anymore. I am pretty sure KU, OSU, and texas will be just fine with getting loud.

 

[seniorsooner]

too many words