About Tiny...

[elmocarp]

So, technically isn't Tiny the highest rated recruit Capel has had? I'm pretty sure he is rated higher than Willie was and the class he is a part of is a lot stronger than Willie's was. So, why is it so hard to get an idea on what to expect from him? I want to be careful here, I don't want to offend those delicate fans out there (what if a player were to read this?) so don't think that I am saying anything negative about Tiny.

I think the general reason for caution among fans with TMG was whether he would be as effective at his size playing in D1 and the general difficulty of playing the point at a higher level. So I assume that if anyone has concerns about Tiny's productivity then it must have to do with his size too...just too much size in this case as opposed to not enough.

Personally I am surprised that there haven't been more fired up about Tiny. You'd have thought there would have been at least a couple of the usual absurdly optimistic predictions about what he will do this year.

One thing I haven't heard people talk about much is what a ridiculous matchup problem he presents. Willie is a fantastic option against the shot clock and is a terrific offensive player, but I'm not ready to say that Tiny can't be as effective of an offensive player. Just think, how do you guard him man-to-man? If you've got a guy like Marshall Moses or Damion James on him, there is no way they can handle his size down on the block. But if you put a guy like Dexter Pittman or Cole Aldrich on him, then he can not only probably give them trouble on the perimeter, but even if he doesn't he is pulling their best interior defender out of the paint. If teams zone, he is a tough matchup wherever Capel puts him...If he is on the wing he can shoot over the guards in a zone...He can play the high post and shoot that free throw jumper that Longar had so many opportunities to take...He can play in the short corner and either take that shot or be able to turn and see well enough to find cutters. And what about using him to open up dribble drive opportunities? If Warren or TMG drives and they send a big to help, its a lot harder to rotate to a big who can shoot from the short corner or even a corner three then rotating in the interior.

Seriously, I know Warren is a supremely gifted scorer but the position he plays is a scorer's position. Every team in America has plans to slow down shooting guards. But a guy like Gallon should be able to put a lot of pressure on a defense every night out.

So what do you guys think?

 

[SoonerNorm]

So, technically isn't Tiny the highest rated recruit Capel has had? I'm pretty sure he is rated higher than Willie was and the class he is a part of is a lot stronger than Willie's was. So, why is it so hard to get an idea on what to expect from him? I want to be careful here, I don't want to offend those delicate fans out there (what if a player were to read this?) so don't think that I am saying anything negative about Tiny.

I think the general reason for caution among fans with TMG was whether he would be as effective at his size playing in D1 and the general difficulty of playing the point at a higher level. So I assume that if anyone has concerns about Tiny's productivity then it must have to do with his size too...just too much size in this case as opposed to not enough.

Personally I am surprised that there haven't been more fired up about Tiny. You'd have thought there would have been at least a couple of the usual absurdly optimistic predictions about what he will do this year.

One thing I haven't heard people talk about much is what a ridiculous matchup problem he presents. Willie is a fantastic option against the shot clock and is a terrific offensive player, but I'm not ready to say that Tiny can't be as effective of an offensive player. Just think, how do you guard him man-to-man? If you've got a guy like Marshall Moses or Damion James on him, there is no way they can handle his size down on the block. But if you put a guy like Dexter Pittman or Cole Aldrich on him, then he can not only probably give them trouble on the perimeter, but even if he doesn't he is pulling their best interior defender out of the paint. If teams zone, he is a tough matchup wherever Capel puts him...If he is on the wing he can shoot over the guards in a zone...He can play the high post and shoot that free throw jumper that Longar had so many opportunities to take...He can play in the short corner and either take that shot or be able to turn and see well enough to find cutters. And what about using him to open up dribble drive opportunities? If Warren or TMG drives and they send a big to help, its a lot harder to rotate to a big who can shoot from the short corner or even a corner three then rotating in the interior.

Seriously, I know Warren is a supremely gifted scorer but the position he plays is a scorer's position. Every team in America has plans to slow down shooting guards. But a guy like Gallon should be able to put a lot of pressure on a defense every night out.

So what do you guys think?

I think that fans are cautiously very optimistic. They certainly want Tiny to be a great player but until they see what he can do against good competition, there is a question mark that fans are not willing to ignore. I don't think there is unnecessary concern about his ability but it isn't a slam dunk that he will be a dominant player in D-1 either. Conditioning is one of the main reasons but if he continues to lose and get in better shape, that is one question that may disappear over the next several weeks.

 

[AdaSooner]

Elmo, with all due respect, I don't believe anyone here needs (or deserves) a lecture on being too sensitive. You're the one who said some fans had used the word "average" in describing TMG. I simply do not recall the post(s) you are referring to. If I'm wrong, kindly point me to them and I will gladly concede my position.

That said, I think the majority of OU fans have been plenty excited about Tiny. Cautious, maybe, but excited nevertheless. A few of us have even said things like "he has more skills as a senior in high school than Blake did his freshman season at OU. Look no further than yours truly for that (right or wrong) observation.

I don't want to put too much pressure on Tiny, but I expect big things from him this season. He is an immensely talented player! I saw him play in three games last year and I came away impressed each time. Does that mean he won't make mistakes or struggle at times? Of course not. But with his size and skill set, I honestly believe he has the goods to be an impact player as a freshman at the college level.

 

[Sooner23]

I'm extremely excited about Tiny. He's obviously not going to be Blake, but I think he's going to be pretty damn good as a freshman.

I think Tiny can produce similar numbers to what Blake put up as a freshman, except on the boards. Blake averaged 14.7 and 9.1 as a freshman, and I think Tiny can get somewhere around 14 and 7. In addition to his shooting, he has a lot of low post skills, great touch around the basket and his slimmer physique will only help him.

My main concern is who is going to play next to him and how will they play off of each other inside? I'm actually spending more time worrying about that than I am being excited about Gallon.

 

[Cheno]

The last thing that concerns me is Tiny Gallon. He's a flat out stud.

 

[elmocarp]

Elmo, with all due respect, I don't believe anyone here needs (or deserves) a lecture on being too sensitive. You're the one who said some fans had used the word "average" in describing TMG. I simply do not recall the post(s) you are referring to. If I'm wrong, kindly point me to them and I will gladly concede my position.

That said, I think the majority of OU fans have been plenty excited about Tiny. Cautious, maybe, but excited nevertheless. A few of us have even said things like "he has more skills as a senior in high school than Blake did his freshman season at OU. Look no further than yours truly for that (right or wrong) observation.

I don't want to put too much pressure on Tiny, but I expect big things from him this season. He is an immensely talented player! I saw him play in three games last year and I came away impressed each time. Does that mean he won't make mistakes or struggle at times? Of course not. But with his size and skill set, I honestly believe he has the goods to be an impact player as a freshman at the college level.

Ada, with all due respect (only I really do mean it) I don't really think I lectured anyone on anything. I made a comment in a single sentence that was directed toward a single poster. It was probably a poor decision on my part, I'll admit, but please don't suggest that I was taking swings at dozens of board members. And as for saying people thought TMG is average, I absolutely never said that, or anything resembling it. What I said was that several people seem to think he will have an average year this year. That has nothing to do with how good he is or will be or anything like that, just that his freshman season will be more or less "average." I hate to drag anyone else into this mess, but I think Dirty even said that he thought TMG would average 8 and 3...I don't think it is inappropriate to say those stats would be average.

Anyway, its obvious I need a message board vacation. I was just trying to get some interesting discussion going about these new guys we've got coming in. It just seems to me (obviously I'm wrong) that there hasn't been a lot of talk about what the roles of the new guys will be. This thread was meant to be a massive endorsement of Tiny and his ability to impact this season, but every response seems to have read that I thought no one liked him. I'm on quite a streak for rubbing people the wrong way lately, so I'm pretty sure its my bad.

Everyone please forgive any offense or irritation...I just thought it would be fun to project what these guys would do this year...

 

[AdaSooner]

Ada, with all due respect (only I really do mean it) I don't really think I lectured anyone on anything. I made a comment in a single sentence that was directed toward a single poster. It was probably a poor decision on my part, I'll admit, but please don't suggest that I was taking swings at dozens of board members. And as for saying people thought TMG is average, I absolutely never said that, or anything resembling it. What I said was that several people seem to think he will have an average year this year. That has nothing to do with how good he is or will be or anything like that, just that his freshman season will be more or less "average." I hate to drag anyone else into this mess, but I think Dirty even said that he thought TMG would average 8 and 3...I don't think it is inappropriate to say those stats would be average.

Anyway, its obvious I need a message board vacation. I was just trying to get some interesting discussion going about these new guys we've got coming in. It just seems to me (obviously I'm wrong) that there hasn't been a lot of talk about what the roles of the new guys will be. This thread was meant to be a massive endorsement of Tiny and his ability to impact this season, but every response seems to have read that I thought no one liked him. I'm on quite a streak for rubbing people the wrong way lately, so I'm pretty sure its my bad.

Everyone please forgive any offense or irritation...I just thought it would be fun to project what these guys would do this year...

Elmo, I assure you that my respect for you is genuine. You're one of the best posters on this board. If I didn't value your opinion and your presence here, I wouldn't take the time to read nearly every post you make word for word.

You're right, now that I've read your comments about TMG again, I can see why you were upset. You did indeed say some seemed to think he would have an average freshman season, and not that he was an average player. Please accept my apology for misunderstanding what you meant. Maybe I'm the one who needs a message board vacation.

 

[Malcolm X]

I say we all take a message board vacation.



Attention ladies and gentlemen: OUHoops will be shut down for the next fourteen days. You may all return to your normal activity on Tuesday October Sixth.

 

[DenverSooner]

I personally expect both Tiny and TMG to have a major impact. Look at the impact that all other McD AA that have ever signed with OU have had.

Blake Griffin - Huge Freshman season
Willie Warren - Huge Freshman season and he was overshadowed by Blake
Scottie Reynolds - Obviously he never played at OU but he has had a major impact on college basketball since day one
Ryan Humphries - he had a pretty major impact as a freshman
Jeff Webster - Huge impact as a freshman
Wayman Tisdal - Huge freshman impact first Freshman AA ever

Other notable recruits at OU that were close to being McD AA are

Drew Lavendar - he had a major impact scoring, I think he averaged well over 10 a game.

Damion James - he had a major impact at Texas from day one.

History would suggest that these two guys are going to have a huge impact from day one. I fully expect Tiny to average 10+ a game and 8 or so boards a game. I also expect TMG to average 10+ while making an overall contribution doing everything else (steals, assists, etc.)

To my knowledge OU has never had 3 McD AA on campus at the same time. Add to that Crocker, Willis, Pledger, Fitzgerald and Wright as high school top 100 recruits and this is easily the most talented roster (based on high school accomplishments) that OU has ever had. Finally while Davis and Allen were not top 100 high school players they can both play at a Big XII level.

 

[CrimsonOberon]

I personally expect both Tiny and TMG to have a major impact. Look at the impact that all other McD AA that have ever signed with OU have had.

Blake Griffin - Huge Freshman season
Willie Warren - Huge Freshman season and he was overshadowed by Blake
Scottie Reynolds - Obviously he never played at OU but he has had a major impact on college basketball since day one
Ryan Humphries - he had a pretty major impact as a freshman
Jeff Webster - Huge impact as a freshman
Wayman Tisdal - Huge freshman impact first Freshman AA ever

Other notable recruits at OU that were close to being McD AA are

Drew Lavendar - he had a major impact scoring, I think he averaged well over 10 a game.

Damion James - he had a major impact at Texas from day one.

History would suggest that these two guys are going to have a huge impact from day one. I fully expect Tiny to average 10+ a game and 8 or so boards a game. I also expect TMG to average 10+ while making an overall contribution doing everything else (steals, assists, etc.)

To my knowledge OU has never had 3 McD AA on campus at the same time. Add to that Crocker, Willis, Pledger, Fitzgerald and Wright as high school top 100 recruits and this is easily the most talented roster (based on high school accomplishments) that OU has ever had. Finally while Davis and Allen were not top 100 high school players they can both play at a Big XII level.

I agree on all points, except Lavender was a McDonald's AA.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Someone on OUI posted that he had heard that Tiny's game was strictly outside and he didn't like to play inside. True? False? I know I've read he can shoot the 3, but I never heard that he didn't play inside at all.

 

[DenverSooner]

I agree on all points, except Lavender was a McDonald's AA.

I was not sure about that. I almost put him as a McD AA.

 

[afaSooner]

I think one reason you don't hear a lot of juicy expectations is because of the man he is following. If we didn't know it before we know now that Blake Griffin is a bona fide NBA All star. Is it too early to say that? I think everyone expects Tiny to just come in and sort of fill a need as a low post scorer since we lost our superstar but certainly not to dominate like Griffin did. Now had Griffin not come to OU and never played a minute then I think the talk about Tiny would be pretty intense.

Having said that I think Tiny will exceed most expectations. I think by mid-season Tiny will avg 18 ppg & 9 reb. There aren't many freshmen that come in right away and avg 18 but Tiny will catch on quickly.

 

[CrimsonOberon]

Someone on OUI posted that he had heard that Tiny's game was strictly outside and he didn't like to play inside. True? False? I know I've read he can shoot the 3, but I never heard that he didn't play inside at all.

I've heard that his perimeter game is further along than his post game, but he does have a good set of post moves and can post up effectively with his big body. He is better with his back to the basket, from what I hear.

I expect OU to be more of a fast break team this year. Tiny's skill set seems like a perfect fit for that kind of system. Just looking at the roster, it looks like more of an up-tempo ballclub, especially with a guy like TMG running the point. That boy seems to be in love with his transition game.:ez-laugh:

 

[AdaSooner]

I expect OU to be more of a fast break team this year. Tiny's skill set seems like a perfect fit for that kind of system. Just looking at the roster, it looks like more of an up-tempo ballclub, especially with a guy like TMG running the point. That boy seems to be in love with his transition game.:ez-laugh:

I agree with your take that Tiny is the perfect fit for an uptempo system. I'll repeat what I've said before. Tiny is one of the best passing big men I have seen in sometime. His specialty is the outlet pass. He reminds me of Courtney Paris in that he turns immediately and looks to get the running game going with a pass to a guard or wing. There is no posing or posturing, just get the ball out and go.

As for his affection for the perimeter, I believe that's an accurate statement. But, it's definitely not because he can't get the job done inside or lacks a post-up game. Tiny is awfully hard to stop when he gets the ball inside. I've got a feeling he will receive a lot of "encouragement" from the coaching staff to take advantage of his size down low. lol

 

[mizzOUstu702]

I'm extremely excited about Tiny. He's obviously not going to be Blake, but I think he's going to be pretty damn good as a freshman.

I think Tiny can produce similar numbers to what Blake put up as a freshman, except on the boards. Blake averaged 14.7 and 9.1 as a freshman, and I think Tiny can get somewhere around 14 and 7. In addition to his shooting, he has a lot of low post skills, great touch around the basket and his slimmer physique will only help him.

My main concern is who is going to play next to him and how will they play off of each other inside? I'm actually spending more time worrying about that than I am being excited about Gallon.

This is how I am. I'm pumped about Tiny, but I know he's not going to be expected to play the five like Blake did. So who's gonna play next to him? Wright? Orlando? Fitz? I just haven't seen enough production out of them to evaluate it enough. So yeah, I'm in the same boat about being excited about Tiny, but a bit apprehensive about our other bigs. I think the talent's there, but the execution needs to follow. :woot

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Personally, I think Tiny has every opportunity to do some cool things at OU, fans just need to realize that he is not Blake Griffin as they have completely different games. Just becuase the guy is 6'8" and big does not automatically mean that he is going to be an inside force.

 

[Sam]

Personally, I think Tiny has every opportunity to do some cool things at OU, fans just need to realize that he is not Blake Griffin as they have completely different games. Just becuase the guy is 6'8" and big does not automatically mean that he is going to be an inside force.

Tiny is a good 6'10 in shoes, I don't think he will dominate the post down low offensively like Blake did but I expect him to his wingspan to alter shots and to get some boards on offense. I could understand if he is a better player offensively on the wing, facing up, shooting the ball but on defense he needs to be ready to get his nose dirty down low defensively .

 

[j2d2]

He will be playing aginst some very accomplished centers in the Big XII. I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan and O got much more time in the beginning and that Tiny wouldn't work his way into significant minutes until March. Assuming he is a fast learner, hard-nosed defender and willing to work.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Tiny is a good 6'10 in shoes, I don't think he will dominate the post down low offensively like Blake did but I expect him to his wingspan to alter shots and to get some boards on offense. I could understand if he is a better player offensively on the wing, facing up, shooting the ball but on defense he needs to be ready to get his nose dirty down low defensively .

Don't disagree with anything you said; however, I guess that what I meant is that he is not an above the rim type of player like BG is [and other than a handful of guys on the planet, not many are].