Big XII NBA Draft Declarations

WichitaSooner said:
How about we agree to revisit this in about 11 months. They will win the league going away, regardless of whether KState returns everyone. And just because you haven't seen several of the guys who will be their best players doesn't mean they aren't great. I bet in six years, as many players on next year's team will have played in the NBA as the teams you mention, with the possibille exception of the national title team. They will be heads and shoulders better than they were this year. Doesn't guarantee they will make the Final Four, but that's true for every team.
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Agreed on that. But they did that this year.

I do think this KU team will probably be top 5, and at least top 10. But that's the norm at KU. They were probably the best team behind Villanova this year, and this is somehow a down year for them.
 
KU will be preseason top 5 in the country. They're stacked. Some have said that the better of the Lawsons was the best player on KU's team this year even though he was redshirting.
 
WichitaSooner said:
How about we agree to revisit this in about 11 months. They will win the league going away, regardless of whether KState returns everyone. And just because you haven't seen several of the guys who will be their best players doesn't mean they aren't great. I bet in six years, as many players on next year's team will have played in the NBA as the teams you mention, with the possibille exception of the national title team. They will be heads and shoulders better than they were this year. Doesn't guarantee they will make the Final Four, but that's true for every team.
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I agree. Best team they've ever had? It's too soon to say but they should be very, very good.
 
Ghost of Gar Heard said:
KU will be preseason top 5 in the country. They're stacked. Some have said that the better of the Lawsons was the best player on KU's team this year even though he was redshirting.
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He is a stud. I’m somewhat surprised he didn’t just turn pro. Isn’t there also a younger brother who is supposed to be the best?
 
WichitaSooner said:
How about we agree to revisit this in about 11 months. They will win the league going away, regardless of whether KState returns everyone. And just because you haven't seen several of the guys who will be their best players doesn't mean they aren't great. I bet in six years, as many players on next year's team will have played in the NBA as the teams you mention, with the possibille exception of the national title team. They will be heads and shoulders better than they were this year. Doesn't guarantee they will make the Final Four, but that's true for every team.
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They will probably win the league. They will not win the league going away. They will not be as good as they have been the past 3 seasons, and they will finish below where there preseason ranking indicates. Villanova will absolutely destroy them when they meet in Lawrence in non-con.
 
Tell ya what Sperry, I'll take ku, you take the rest of the B12 and ku win's league by 2 games...maybe 3.
 
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yeah ksu will be in top 25 easily...now if Brown and Wade end up leaving that might change some things.
 
 
Some of you are going to be surprised with KSU next year. And not in a good way. If I were guessing today, I'd say they will not be a top 25 team entering postseason play next year.

And KU is going to be stacked next year. Much more talented roster than they had this year. Doesn't mean they'll have the guard play to be a true FF team, but they'll win the Big 12. Very little doubt about that, IMO.
 
WTSooner said:
Some of you are going to be surprised with KSU next year. And not in a good way. If I were guessing today, I'd say they will not be a top 25 team entering postseason play next year.

And KU is going to be stacked next year. Much more talented roster than they had this year. Doesn't mean they'll have the guard play to be a true FF team, but they'll win the Big 12. Very little doubt about that, IMO.
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Surprised in what way? I'm genuinely confused why you are so down on K-State. They finished 10-8 in conference, and won 25 games while making it to the elite 8. Yeah, they got to play UMBC, but they also beat very good Creighton and Kentucky teams. They should bring every single player back from that team, and add a transfer who should contribute. Weber's problem has always been that he can't get recruits. They have the horses now, and I expect them to be very good.


As for Kansas, they will probably win the conference, in large part because nobody besides K-State is set up to have a really good team next year. That being said, Kansas is going to be vulnerable. An inexperienced and potentially weak backcourt is a recipe for losing conference road games. For example, I have a very hard time imagining two freshmen and a 5'10" transfer from Cal going into Morgantown and winning. They also don't appear to have much in the way of 3 point shooters, which again, is a problem. Teams can exploit them by going small against the big, clunky lineups they are going to have to play. Doke in particular is an easily exploitable matchup defensively. That's how Nova got a trillion wide open 3s.
 
sperry said:
Surprised in what way? I'm genuinely confused why you are so down on K-State. They finished 10-8 in conference, and won 25 games while making it to the elite 8. Yeah, they got to play UMBC, but they also beat very good Creighton and Kentucky teams. They should bring every single player back from that team, and add a transfer who should contribute. Weber's problem has always been that he can't get recruits. They have the horses now, and I expect them to be very good.


As for Kansas, they will probably win the conference, in large part because nobody besides K-State is set up to have a really good team next year. That being said, Kansas is going to be vulnerable. An inexperienced and potentially weak backcourt is a recipe for losing conference road games. For example, I have a very hard time imagining two freshmen and a 5'10" transfer from Cal going into Morgantown and winning. They also don't appear to have much in the way of 3 point shooters, which again, is a problem. Teams can exploit them by going small against the big, clunky lineups they are going to have to play. Doke in particular is an easily exploitable matchup defensively. That's how Nova got a trillion wide open 3s.
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Have you ever watched Kansas play? The fact you refer to their "big, clunky" lineups suggests not. Self's best teams have been the ones who dominate opponents by rolling out multiple NBA bigs. And if you think De Sousa or Lawson is clunky, you are crazy. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone on this board called them vulnerable. Self just played an entire season using a style that he doesn't prefer, and made the Final Four and won the league by multiple games. Now he gets back to what he is most comfortable with and what they have been best at.

I do agree with you about KState. It would be a surprise if they aren't very good. They will definitely be Top 25 to start the season, possibly Top 15.
 
WichitaSooner said:
Have you ever watched Kansas play? The fact you refer to their "big, clunky" lineups suggests not. Self's best teams have been the ones who dominate opponents by rolling out multiple NBA bigs. And if you think De Sousa or Lawson is clunky, you are crazy. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone on this board called them vulnerable. Self just played an entire season using a style that he doesn't prefer, and made the Final Four and won the league by multiple games. Now he gets back to what he is most comfortable with and what they have been best at.

I do agree with you about KState. It would be a surprise if they aren't very good. They will definitely be Top 25 to start the season, possibly Top 15.
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His best team was the Chalmers/Rush/Arthur team which had decent big men (Kaun, Jackson, freshman Aldrich), but were good because of the guards and wings. The Morris twins teams were really good, but the Morris twins are way better than the bigs on next years squad. The other really good teams he had were the Mason/Graham/Selden/Svi teams.


And the clunky lineups I'm talking about are where he is running out Doke/Lawson/Lawson/2 guards. People won't really notice, but Vick leaving really hurts them. He would have been a perfect 5th starter for this team that would allow them to play a bit smaller and provide some much needed 3 point shooting. They are going to be really relying on those two freshmen guards to hit 3s, which again is going to be rough in conference road games.
 
sperry said:
His best team was the Chalmers/Rush/Arthur team which had decent big men (Kaun, Jackson, freshman Aldrich), but were good because of the guards and wings. The Morris twins teams were really good, but the Morris twins are way better than the bigs on next years squad. The other really good teams he had were the Mason/Graham/Selden/Svi teams.


And the clunky lineups I'm talking about are where he is running out Doke/Lawson/Lawson/2 guards. People won't really notice, but Vick leaving really hurts them. He would have been a perfect 5th starter for this team that would allow them to play a bit smaller and provide some much needed 3 point shooting. They are going to be really relying on those two freshmen guards to hit 3s, which again is going to be rough in conference road games.
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I guess you know his teams better than Self does, then, because he says constantly that their best teams were when the fourth or fifth post player in their rotation was a guy like Aldrich or Withey who ended up playing in the NBA. And again, if you think either Lawson is clunky, you simply haven't seen them play. Most think the older Lawson was the best player on their roster this year (yes, better than Graham), and many expect him to be the best player in the Big 12 next year. As for Vick, those who cover the program expected him to declare, largely because he realized that he would likely lose minutes to some of the guards they have coming in. They already are stacked, and if they end up getting the wing player who is the sixth ranked kid in the country, they will have tons of backcourt talent. Of course they will have some games where they don't shoot well -- everyone does. But there is a reason they are in the top 3 of virtually every analyst's early rankings.
 
WichitaSooner said:
I guess you know his teams better than Self does, then, because he says constantly that their best teams were when the fourth or fifth post player in their rotation was a guy like Aldrich or Withey who ended up playing in the NBA. And again, if you think either Lawson is clunky, you simply haven't seen them play. Most think the older Lawson was the best player on their roster this year (yes, better than Graham), and many expect him to be the best player in the Big 12 next year. As for Vick, those who cover the program expected him to declare, largely because he realized that he would likely lose minutes to some of the guards they have coming in. They already are stacked, and if they end up getting the wing player who is the sixth ranked kid in the country, they will have tons of backcourt talent. Of course they will have some games where they don't shoot well -- everyone does. But there is a reason they are in the top 3 of virtually every analyst's early rankings.
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Duke was an overwhelming number 1 in both preseason polls. They had a similarly constructed, but more talented team than this Kansas team. They were obviously very good this year, but they did not dominate like they were supposed to, and there struggles were entirely because of mediocre backcourt play.

Dedric Lawson is definitely a stud. I don't think KJ is great, though. I do not like Doke. De Sousa is very talented, but still has a long ways to go.


As for Vick, he was going to get minutes and shots. He's exactly what that team will be missing: a tough, versatile senior in the backcourt who can play D and hit 3s.
 
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