Bill Simmons on Rick Barnes

[Cheno]

I agree you have to knock Cal if you are going to knock Barnes, however I believe both are extremely overrated coaches. They have vastly underachieved with the talents they have had IMO.

I don't know....I'm not a huge Barnes guy and I hate Calipari but college basketball is college basketball. It's damn tough to win it all regardless of how much talent you have. Calipari turned UMass around and took them to a FF4. He took Memphis to the National Championship game. He turned Kentucky around immediately. To say he's extremely overrated is tough.
Same with Barnes. Texas was crap before he got there.

 

[sooner333]

Calipari turned UMass around and took them to a FF4. He took Memphis to the National Championship game..

Point me to the place in the record books where it says that.

 

[sys]

Do you think that Rick Barnes' results on the court have equalled the success on draft night?

yes. providence, clemson, texas since '98. he's more than just the last couple of years.

 

[Cheno]

Point me to the place in the record books where it says that.

Better yet here's a little bit of the game you can watch if you don't believe it.
You'll particularly enjoy the 1:55 mark.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpXZejNDVKg[/ame]

 

[Soonerspiff]

Better yet here's a little bit of the game you can watch if you don't believe it.
You'll particularly enjoy the 1:55 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpXZejNDVKg

I think he asked for you to point out the place in the record books that says that because it's not in there.

They had to vacate that Final Four appearance...

 

[Cheno]

I think he asked for you to point out the place in the record books that says that because it's not in there.
They had to vacate that Final Four appearance...

Yeah, I know but I believe I said he "took them to the Final Four".
I don't need a record book to know that.
Again, I can't stand Calipari but the guy is far from "extremely overrated".

Calipari has been to two more final fours than most coaches.

 

[aaron7]

yes. providence, clemson, texas since '98. he's more than just the last couple of years.

One conference championship in 21 years, 19-18 record in the tournament, and has lost 8 of 12 years at Texas to a worse seed. Seems like he should have done better than this with the guys he has put in the league.

 

[WaymanFan]

and has lost 8 of 12 years at Texas to a worse seed.

Shhh...it's a secret, but Billy Tubbs and Kelvin Sampson combined to lose 14 of their 20 NCAA Tournament games to lower seeds...in other words, you may want to pick a different argument.

I think Rick Barnes is a good coach and a great recruiter. That means he could win a title at some point, as long as he clearly has superior talent...he won't outcoach any of the big boys. I don't think for a second his job is in jeopardy because he keeps getting great players to come to a football school, and his teams are always competitive. He seems to get to the Sweet 16 about every other year...not bad for a football school.

 

[aaron7]

Shhh...it's a secret, but Billy Tubbs and Kelvin Sampson combined to lose 14 of their 20 NCAA Tournament games to lower seeds...in other words, you may want to pick a different argument.

I think Rick Barnes is a good coach and a great recruiter. That means he could win a title at some point, as long as he clearly has superior talent...he won't outcoach any of the big boys. I don't think for a second his job is in jeopardy because he keeps getting great players to come to a football school, and his teams are always competitive. He seems to get to the Sweet 16 about every other year...not bad for a football school.

Not sure how Kelvin Sampson or Billy Tubbs ended up in this discussion, but since they are now how many first round draft picks did the two combine to have versus Rick Barnes? I think anyone would agree that the two teams during Kelvin's tenure that were the most talented he took to the Final Four and Elite Eight.

Meanwhile Barnes managed to get a team with Kevin Durant, D.J. Augustin, A.J. Abrams, Damion James, and Dexter Pittman beat in the second round. I realize that is just one year, but I think one could make the argument that it was not an isolated incident.

 

[Cheno]

One conference championship in 21 years, 19-18 record in the tournament, and has lost 8 of 12 years at Texas to a worse seed. Seems like he should have done better than this with the guys he has put in the league.

Other than Durant, he really hasn't put anyone in the league that was that great.

Meanwhile Barnes managed to get a team with Kevin Durant, D.J. Augustin, A.J. Abrams, Damion James, and Dexter Pittman beat in the second round. I realize that is just one year, but I think one could make the argument that it was not an isolated incident.

That team started 4 freshmen and a sophomore and had absolutely no bench.
Dexter Pittman was trash as a freshmen. Seriously.

 

[red recluse]

and usc was playing out of their minds during that stretch when they beat texas with durant.

 

[Cheno]

Not sure how Kelvin Sampson or Billy Tubbs ended up in this discussion, but since they are now how many first round draft picks did the two combine to have versus Rick Barnes?

I don't know but you let me choose five from Tubbs teams and you choose 5 from Barnes team & I smoke you.
You give me:
PG Mookie Blaylock
SG Brent Price
F Harvey Grant
F Wayman Tisdale
C Stacey King

and let's go play. Kevin Durant is the only position you'd have the advantage.

 

[WaymanFan]

Not sure how Kelvin Sampson or Billy Tubbs ended up in this discussion

Simple. Someone mentioned Rick Barnes lost 8 of his 12 NCAA Tournament games against LOWER SEEDS. I'm not sure the relevance of losing to a lower seed when you have NBA players or not. In most cases, there's a reason one team is seeded lower than the other. Usually, the lower seed isn't stocked with future NBA players, either. The exception was in '90 when a team of no future NBA players lost to a lower-seeded team who was loaded with them. That's it. One time.

You can't rag on Rick Barnes for losing to lower seeds and give a pass to our two great coaches...well, you can, but you won't be remotely objective.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Rick Barnes is a good coach. We all know that. Now has he lost tourney games he shouldn't have? Of course. But when you break down Rick Barnes as a recruiter, stategist, and in game adjuster, he's as good as anyone.

 

[Seymore Cox]

So let me see if I've got this straight. He sucks to you, yet he offers informed opinions on NBA ball. He's been published, and has developed a devoted following for his columns on ESPN.com. He's forgotten more about the NBA than any of us could ever learn.

Yet he sucks. Sure. Got it.

Now, go ahead and tell us about some recruit you think we'll sign who's never heard of Oklahoma and probably couldn't spell Capel if you told him the "e" comes before the "l".

Disclaimer: I'm not a big Simmons reader. Too much Boston lean, but I respect his knowledge of the game.......which is extremely vast.

If you don't like someone, they suck. could care less about what "knowledge" he has. To be honest, I haven't heard of him till recently and he seems to be more in love with his opinions and himself than anything else. To me that sucks.

 

[aaron7]

I don't know but you let me choose five from Tubbs teams and you choose 5 from Barnes team & I smoke you.
You give me:
PG Mookie Blaylock
SG Brent Price
F Harvey Grant
F Wayman Tisdale
C Stacey King

and let's go play. Kevin Durant is the only position you'd have the advantage.

I don't know about smoke me.

PG T.J. Ford
SG A.J. Abrams
SF Kevin Durant
PF Lamarcus Aldridge
C Chris Mihm

 

[stoops4pres]

I don't know about smoke me.

PG T.J. Ford
SG A.J. Abrams
SF Kevin Durant
PF Lamarcus Aldridge
C Chris Mihm

That's what I was thinking as well. End of the day I'd give OU the edge, but it wouldn't be a blow out.