Did they just call Damion James loyal?

[Bk2X]

:clap

 

[blankenship4]

I know this is not going to be the popular or majority opinion, but when are we going to get over the Damion James thing? While I always thought it was both funny and part of college athletics to see our student body chant "traitor" at him on his visits to the LNC, I find it more than ridiculous that grown men are sitting at their computers bashing and languishing over a decision made by an 18 year old over 4 years ago.

What do we really know about his decision? For one we know that he was an early commitment and signed with OU without even taking any other official visits before signing. We know he then backed out after a coaching change and signed with UT. We know that he did allow Capel to come into his home and meet with him before he made his decision. We also think/know that he put his little brother on the phone because he didn't want to talk to Capel during his re-recruitment. So what?? He was an 18 year old kid. Maybe he just had a hard time telling people "no" and it was easier that way. Maybe he was just tired of talking on the phone after having so many conversations with Kelvin over the years. He wouldn't be the first nor the last to be the type of person or do that type of thing, especially as a teenager. I looked up his bio on the UT website this morning. He lists his parent as Katrina Williams. There is no mention of a father, which means there either isn't one around, or at least there isn't one he is close enough with to want to acknowledge. Perhaps he might have handled the decision process in a more mature manner if he'd had a stronger male influence in his life. Obviously that wasn't the case.

Who knows why he changed his mind? Maybe he didn't hit it off with Capel. Maybe he didn't want to play for a coach who was "cool" and liked Jay-Z? Maybe Barnes was more like Kelvin and presented more of the older, fathe-figure he was looking for as a coach? Maybe there was an UT alum in Nacogdoches or East Texas that decided to make his decision alot easier/harder the second time around. Perhaps, and here is a novel idea, he thought going to UT was the best decision for he and his famliy after Sampson left.

Whether we like the decision or not, it was his to make and it appears to have certainly worked out pretty well for Damion. He has put his name all over the UT record books and will leave their as one of their most beloved players ever. He will make a ton of money in either the NBA or overseas. And if his career is cut short for any reason, I am certain he will have no problem finding a job in the state of Texas when he is done playing. And isn't that why we all went to college in the first place?

Just a week ago we had posters on here ready to raid Baylor's or A&M's recruting classes if one of their coaches left for Oregon. Would we not consider Perry Jones a traitor if he showed up in Norman this fall? Would Kevin Bookout have been viewed as a traitor if he had signed with UT out of Stroud and then changed his mind and came back to OU after a coaching change? Surely we would have bashed him his entire four years. It's not like James played a great freshman year in Norman and then left his teammates and coaches hanging. Who exacty was he expected to be loyal to? The OU fan base, who wouldn't have ever cared about him or even known who he was if he han't been a recruit here?

In addition, we have had apologists on this board for everything from dui's, failed drug tests, to arrests at department stores over the time span that Damion has been in Austin. And I agree with all of these things. Yet while we are so quick to blame these things on youth and immaturity, let a 5-star recruit who is also a teenager make a major life decision and he is forever a Judas?

I am sorry this is so long. I am just sick and tired of people trashing this kid for a decision that was made 4 years ago. Maybe we don't think he was loyal, but after 18 years of life who did he really owe any loyalty to? Just himself and his family. And it seems to me that it has worked out ok for him. Yes, it maybe it does suck for OU not to have had this kid, but if we can't let this go, then maybe some on this board have alot of issues worse than that of an 18 year old kid.

Great post

 

[playmakr]

I know this is not going to be the popular or majority opinion, but when are we going to get over the Damion James thing? While I always thought it was both funny and part of college athletics to see our student body chant "traitor" at him on his visits to the LNC, I find it more than ridiculous that grown men are sitting at their computers bashing and languishing over a decision made by an 18 year old over 4 years ago.

What do we really know about his decision? For one we know that he was an early commitment and signed with OU without even taking any other official visits before signing. We know he then backed out after a coaching change and signed with UT. We know that he did allow Capel to come into his home and meet with him before he made his decision. We also think/know that he put his little brother on the phone because he didn't want to talk to Capel during his re-recruitment. So what?? He was an 18 year old kid. Maybe he just had a hard time telling people "no" and it was easier that way. Maybe he was just tired of talking on the phone after having so many conversations with Kelvin over the years. He wouldn't be the first nor the last to be the type of person or do that type of thing, especially as a teenager. I looked up his bio on the UT website this morning. He lists his parent as Katrina Williams. There is no mention of a father, which means there either isn't one around, or at least there isn't one he is close enough with to want to acknowledge. Perhaps he might have handled the decision process in a more mature manner if he'd had a stronger male influence in his life. Obviously that wasn't the case.

Who knows why he changed his mind? Maybe he didn't hit it off with Capel. Maybe he didn't want to play for a coach who was "cool" and liked Jay-Z? Maybe Barnes was more like Kelvin and presented more of the older, fathe-figure he was looking for as a coach? Maybe there was an UT alum in Nacogdoches or East Texas that decided to make his decision alot easier/harder the second time around. Perhaps, and here is a novel idea, he thought going to UT was the best decision for he and his famliy after Sampson left.

Whether we like the decision or not, it was his to make and it appears to have certainly worked out pretty well for Damion. He has put his name all over the UT record books and will leave their as one of their most beloved players ever. He will make a ton of money in either the NBA or overseas. And if his career is cut short for any reason, I am certain he will have no problem finding a job in the state of Texas when he is done playing. And isn't that why we all went to college in the first place?

Just a week ago we had posters on here ready to raid Baylor's or A&M's recruting classes if one of their coaches left for Oregon. Would we not consider Perry Jones a traitor if he showed up in Norman this fall? Would Kevin Bookout have been viewed as a traitor if he had signed with UT out of Stroud and then changed his mind and came back to OU after a coaching change? Surely we would have bashed him his entire four years. It's not like James played a great freshman year in Norman and then left his teammates and coaches hanging. Who exacty was he expected to be loyal to? The OU fan base, who wouldn't have ever cared about him or even known who he was if he han't been a recruit here?

In addition, we have had apologists on this board for everything from dui's, failed drug tests, to arrests at department stores over the time span that Damion has been in Austin. And I agree with all of these things. Yet while we are so quick to blame these things on youth and immaturity, let a 5-star recruit who is also a teenager make a major life decision and he is forever a Judas?

I am sorry this is so long. I am just sick and tired of people trashing this kid for a decision that was made 4 years ago. Maybe we don't think he was loyal, but after 18 years of life who did he really owe any loyalty to? Just himself and his family. And it seems to me that it has worked out ok for him. Yes, it maybe it does suck for OU not to have had this kid, but if we can't let this go, then maybe some on this board have alot of issues worse than that of an 18 year old kid.

For one, you need to cool it with the "grown men sitting around computers" thing and people having issues. You don't know posters on here personally. I wish my only issue growing up was picking a school, and I doubt that's all Damion had to deal with growing up, and that isn't what this is about. I don't think most fault him for his decision, as I will speak to shortly.

Secondly, relax.

Thirdly, my guess is people around here would respect him a lot more if he didn't dick Capel around and jerk his chain. I don't see ill will toward Scottie Reynolds on this board, because he handled his decision with class. Sure, Damion's BS act toward Capel was over 4 years ago, but that doesn't mean we can't rag on him twice a year (when he plays OU) about it. It was a BS move. No, I don't think anyone was losing sleep or is losing sleep over him messing with Capel, but there is nothing wrong with pointing it out especially on days he is set to play OU. There is nothing wrong with Damion picking another school after the coach left, and we were right for letting him and others go, but if he wanted to play games, we can play games also.

If he would have simply made the decision to leave and gone quietly, I wouldn't even post about him.

Lastly, I don't buy the father figure shtick. At some point, people have to grow up. I didn't have a father figure growing up, but would never consider being as childish as he was toward Capel. He's made himself a good player and is probably more mature now, but I have the right to rag on him for how he handled it.

great post

No.

 

[jaymOU]

Stanley 11 - bravo! But it was a hard thing for an Oklahoma fan to hear

 

[skyvue]

I agree with your post, stanley11, but it's worth noting that Scotty Reynolds and other players who have left OU are not the targets of such vitriol. There were very specific factors that made OU fans resent James.

First, he treated our new coach with disrespect -- and yes, I know he's a kid, but James' reported behavior was something an 18-year-old should be above. Can you imagine Cade Davis or Tony Crocker, just to name two, pulling that nonsense at 18 or even 16 or 14? Neither can I -- and second, he went to a hated rival that we face at least twice a season. Had he made his way to New Mexico or Auburn or any other school we don't play regularly, he'd have been forgotten long ago, even given his bad behavior.

In any case, he's almost finished at ut now, and he'll quickly be forgotten.

 

[stanley11]

I am not ignorant to what he did to Capel. And yes I think it was classless and immature. I just think it would be alot worse if it were a 35 year-old man with a wife, family, and true life experiences to draw from that did such a childish thing. He was obviiously very immature at the time, and wasn't man enough to just get on the phone and tell Capel "no". Big deal. It's over. Let it go.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Maybe he was just tired of talking on the phone after having so many conversations with Kelvin over the years.

Cheap shot

 

[playmakr]

I am not ignorant to what he did to Capel. And yes I think it was classless and immature. I just think it would be alot worse if it were a 35 year-old man with a wife, family, and true life experiences to draw from that did such a childish thing. He was obviiously very immature at the time, and wasn't man enough to just get on the phone and tell Capel "no". Big deal. It's over. Let it go.

I don't disagree with letting it go, and really I never really needed to "let it go" as I didn't have a personal vested interest. I also don't see anything wrong with ragging on him some because of it. I doubt it will ever be brought up again now that he's gone, and it is brought up, what, once a year? It doesn't mean I have personal issues or need to get a life, or that people chanting traitor at a
basketball game need to get a life.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

For one, you need to cool it with the "grown men sitting around computers" thing and people having issues. You don't know posters on here personally. I wish my only issue growing up was picking a school, and I doubt that's all Damion had to deal with growing up, and that isn't what this is about. I don't think most fault him for his decision, as I will speak to shortly.

Secondly, relax.

Thirdly, my guess is people around here would respect him a lot more if he didn't dick Capel around and jerk his chain. I don't see ill will toward Scottie Reynolds on this board, because he handled his decision with class. Sure, Damion's BS act toward Capel was over 4 years ago, but that doesn't mean we can't rag on him twice a year (when he plays OU) about it. It was a BS move. No, I don't think anyone was losing sleep or is losing sleep over him messing with Capel, but there is nothing wrong with pointing it out especially on days he is set to play OU. There is nothing wrong with Damion picking another school after the coach left, and we were right for letting him and others go, but if he wanted to play games, we can play games also.

If he would have simply made the decision to leave and gone quietly, I wouldn't even post about him.

Lastly, I don't buy the father figure shtick. At some point, people have to grow up. I didn't have a father figure growing up, but would never consider being as childish as he was toward Capel. He's made himself a good player and is probably more mature now, but I have the right to rag on him for how he handled it.




No.

good post.

 

[skyvue]

And I'll add again here, as I've posted before, that the rules should be changed so that players come to understand that they are signing with a school, not a coach. Yes, I understand that's not the attitude currently, but that could be changed.

OU, its fans, and its players got burned first by Sampson's actions and departure and then by the recruits leaving. Sampson came out unharmed (or would have, if he'd used his head) and the players went on to thrive elsewhere. But our basketball program suffered a big setback.

Sorry, but there's nothing fair about that.

The rule should be something along these lines: If a player signs with a school just before the coach leaves, the player is forced to honor his commitment to the school for one academic year/one season. If he finds he doesn't like the school or the new coach, he can then leave without penalty or having to sit out for a year (I'd include a requirement that the departing athlete go to a program outside his first school's conference).

The above change would throw things off for a season or two, but after a while, recruits would come to understand that they must factor in the programs/schools when they're making their decisions, not just the head coaches, because they're going to spend at least a year at their chosen school once they've signed, even if the coach departs.

Once that's sunk in over the course of a recruiting season or two, recruits will have a better handle on making their decisions and programs that lose their coaches through no wrongdoing of their own will be better protected.

 

[Bk2X]

I agree with your post, stanley11, but it's worth noting that Scotty Reynolds and other players who have left OU are not the targets of such vitriol. There were very specific factors that made OU fans resent James.

I don't think Scotty would agree with your statement based on his visit during the 06-07 season. I distinctly remember explaining to my wife why he was being called a traitor.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I don't think Scotty would agree with your statement based on his visit during the 06-07 season. I distinctly remember explaining to my wife why he was being called a traitor.

and?

 

[stoops4pres]

Thirdly, my guess is people around here would respect him a lot more if he didn't dick Capel around and jerk his chain. I don't see ill will toward Scottie Reynolds on this board, because he handled his decision with class. Sure, Damion's BS act toward Capel was over 4 years ago, but that doesn't mean we can't rag on him twice a year (when he plays OU) about it. It was a BS move. No, I don't think anyone was losing sleep or is losing sleep over him messing with Capel, but there is nothing wrong with pointing it out especially on days he is set to play OU. There is nothing wrong with Damion picking another school after the coach left, and we were right for letting him and others go, but if he wanted to play games, we can play games also.

Exactly.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

The guy spurned one school to go play for that schools biggest rival and in the process screwed aroung with the new coach of school that he punked. I don't care if you are 18 or 80, when you make a dciesion like that in life, you know that you're going to take some crap for it...if he didn't think he would, then he is an idiot. To add to that, making that choice and then talk about your best trait being "loyalty" on national television while playing the school you flaked out on..sorry, you are egging it on and acting like a punk. And since when did being 18 become such a free pass on charatcer and ethical issues? My god, we have people on here calling 21 year olds "kids" these days.

Poor Damion had an opportunity to get a free college education at numerous colleges and universities, but his choice was HARD? About 99% of "kids" his age [and presumed economic status based on what has been posted in this thread] during high school are working summer jobs doing something that they probably don't like trying to save money for something that they cannot afford otherwise, poor Damion spent his summer traveling around the country playing a GAME from about the 9th grade on. For about 99% of "kids" from disadvantaged homes, options for college are LIMITED. In fact, go look and see those "kids" who are fighting our wars and dying for our country on a daily basis and you'll note that a lot of them come from the same place poor Damion did.

Screw him. To act like it was so HARD to pick a school or stick with his commitment when other "kids" his age are making life and death decisions to get "maybe" a shot at bettering themselves by getting G.I. Bill or other financial aid [if they can make it out of a war zone alive]. Poor Damion...he should be on his knees thanking God every day that he was blessed with the natural talent he was given, becuase rest assured, there are kids making real HARD decisions every day. Frankly, I'm hopeful that Coach Capel is reminding some of the kids on our team that FACT every day.

Bottom Line: I guess that expecting Damion to handle his blessings with courtesy and class is asking too much...espescially from an 18 year old "kid" who had a really HARD decision to make. To be fair to Damion, there are fans who will want a guys job for one bad year, and there are coaches who will leave a program at the first chance to make more money, maybe, just maybe, "loyalty" is just dead in college athletics altogether? I hope not, but I'm afraid it is.

 

[sdcloud9]

I know this has been discussed plenty. I didn't have a problems with OU letting those kids out of their letters and still don't.

But I do think the kids should have suffered at least some penalty for leaving.

If nothing else, just don't let them transfer in the conference without penalty, that to me was sorry in the James' case.

I remember Prince Fowler that came to OU and then left after one year and followed Tubbs to TCU. He showed loyalty to the school, it didn't work out, he left but never lost a year of eligibility and everything worked out in the end. That's the way it should have been.

The loyalty thing with James was sorry, imo.