Final possession

[WichitaSooner]

I’ve heard the postgame interviews and explanations and have watched the replay plenty of times, and as thrilling as it was, I still can’t figure out how, with that much time left to set up a play, we didn’t have more options available when they cut off JM’s driving lane. There is nothing worse than throwing up a prayer and hoping it gets answered when you only need a two. You have to know that OSU is going to do everything possible to prevent JM from getting downhill or drawing a foul. If that happens, surely there have to be some counters available.

We haven’t played many close games this year and yesterday was the first time we were down 1 with the ball in that situation. But presumably, it’ll happen again in an equally important game. Moser needs to get back to the drawing board because that shot only goes in maybe 20 percent of the time. The other thing I don’t like is allowing the clock to drain … you need to get that shot up with enough time to get a rebound or commit a foul if you miss.

 

[opsooner]

I think he is just dead set on isolating JMac in those situations. I understand why you would want the best FT shooter in the conference to have the ball but someone said it correctly yesterday, the refs are likely swallowing their whistles at that time anyway unless it is really egregious.

JMac is good at creating but, yes, we got lucky this time with a low percentage shot that went in. No screens at all, everyone just kind of fanned out to get out of his way. You would think we would have a second option with a screen away from the ball or something but there was nothing.

That said, I have been negative about Moser lately and JMac made it work so I will be fair and give everyone credit. It was a must win and we found a way. And we did run a lot of nice sets in the second half and in OT before that for which Moser also gets credit.

Another unsung hero in this game was Moore. If he doesn’t get the stop on the other end it is highly likely a different result. If osu had been up by 3 they would have likely fouled or setup everything to defend the 3. Since they only led by 1 it helped to give JMac the room for that 3.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

lol I knew this was coming. You just can’t help yourself

 

[MJSooner]

I think he is just dead set on isolating JMac in those situations. I understand why you would want the best FT shooter in the conference to have the ball but someone said it correctly yesterday, the refs are likely swallowing their whistles at that time anyway unless it is really egregious.

JMac is good at creating but, yes, we got lucky this time with a low percentage shot that went in. No screens at all, everyone just kind of fanned out to get out of his way. You would think we would have a second option with a screen away from the ball or something but there was nothing.

That said, I have been negative about Moser lately and JMac made it work so I will be fair and give everyone credit. It was a must win and we found a way. And we did run a lot of nice sets in the second half and in OT before that for which Moser also gets credit.

Another unsung hero in this game was Moore. If he doesn’t get the stop on the other end it is highly likely a different result. If osu had been up by 3 they would have likely fouled or setup everything to defend the 3. Since they only led by 1 it helped to give JMac the room for that 3.

Yeah, and I think a lot of the criticism of the final play is unfair.

If you look at our OT possessions, IIRC, we scored on all but one- the drive Tega fumbled and turned it over. All of those possessions other than the final shot were basically at the rim or a score off the drive. A lot of the same in the last 3-4 minutes of regulation. So if you're Moser, you got to be thinking they've had success driving and getting to the rim, so call a play designed to do so. They hadn't shown they could stop it consistently so go with your best guy to beat someone with the first step, and really proficient at picking up a foul. IMO, the reality is JMac was soft on the drive and quickly floated away from the rim, making the jumper or stepback the only play. He probably could have gone with a cross or spin back to the right and had a wide-open path to the rim. And the refs had been blowing the whistle, as OSU got the call (and it was a foul) on a play that wasn't a drive or shot with 4 seconds in regulation.

But who cares?!!? Not directed at you, but I've never seen so much criticism of a game-winning shot in all my years of fandom, both on this board and TOS. The shot went in and we ripped their hearts out. Let's be happy and celebrate a huge win where we ended up as dogs. A bedlam win for the ages. Literally.

And you are right about Moore. His ability to step up and grab boards the whole game was huge, especially that last possession. They were switching all high screens that last minute, and for Jalon to switch onto Small, be quick enough to guard him on the drive, get a hand up without fouling, AND grab the board may have been the defensive POY.

This one is one that can really go down as a great team win.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Yeah, and I think a lot of the criticism of the final play is unfair.

If you look at our OT possessions, IIRC, we scored on all but one- the drive Tega fumbled and turned it over. All of those possessions other than the final shot were basically at the rim or a score off the drive. A lot of the same in the last 3-4 minutes of regulation. So if you're Moser, you got to be thinking they've had success driving and getting to the rim, so call a play designed to do so. They hadn't shown they could stop it consistently so go with your best guy to beat someone with the first step, and really proficient at picking up a foul. IMO, the reality is JMac was soft on the drive and quickly floated away from the rim, making the jumper or stepback the only play. He probably could have gone with a cross or spin back to the right and had a wide-open path to the rim. And the refs had been blowing the whistle, as OSU got the call (and it was a foul) on a play that wasn't a drive or shot with 4 seconds in regulation.

But who cares?!!? Not directed at you, but I've never seen so much criticism of a game-winning shot in all my years of fandom, both on this board and TOS. The shot went in and we ripped their hearts out. Let's be happy and celebrate a huge win where we ended up as dogs. A bedlam win for the ages. Literally.

And you are right about Moore. His ability to step up and grab boards the whole game was huge, especially that last possession. They were switching all high screens that last minute, and for Jalon to switch onto Small, be quick enough to guard him on the drive, get a hand up without fouling, AND grab the board may have been the defensive POY.

This one is one that can really go down as a great team win.

The issue isn’t the decision to try to set something up for JM to drive. The issue is not having a better counter if it didn’t work as planned. You can’t ever just assume a play in that situation will run just as you draw it up. That’s why you need options.

As for why it matters … as I pointed out, we will likely be in that situation again. If we end up with another 25-foot heave, and this time it doesn’t go in, you’ll get your answer as to why it matters. Or, is this another example of, we have to only discuss the positive side of things on a message board?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

The issue isn’t the decision to try to set something up for JM to drive. The issue is not having a better counter if it didn’t work as planned. You can’t ever just assume a play in that situation will run just as you draw it up. That’s why you need options.

As for why it matters … as I pointed out, we will likely be in that situation again. If we end up with another 25-foot heave, and this time it doesn’t go in, you’ll get your answer as to why it matters. Or, is this another example of, we have to only discuss the positive side of things on a message board?

There were options. One for if they were in zone and one for if they were in man.

You want them to have like 6 options with seconds on the clock?

Do you even basketball?

 

[Boom Soon]

I get what you’re saying. But Moser said they had an option for zone and an option for man. Maybe Moser didn’t want to overthink anything. Get the ball to the best free throw shooter and hope he makes a play. Had Moser drawn something fancy up and JM makes a bad pass or the something like that people would still be upset.

Also, I don’t think that shot is as crazy as some. Three pointers are ALL kids shoot these days. I would be very very rich man if I had a dollar for every time one of my HS guards practiced hitting step back three pointers. It’s a legit part of the game now.

 

[CoachTalk]

And if he draws a set you’d say… “we were in the bonus, coach talk says he’s a pro, let him be a pro and make a bucket or get fouled”


Rinse wash repeat.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Those with 20/20 hindsight always think they have the best ideas.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

The issue isn’t the decision to try to set something up for JM to drive. The issue is not having a better counter if it didn’t work as planned. You can’t ever just assume a play in that situation will run just as you draw it up. That’s why you need options.

As for why it matters … as I pointed out, we will likely be in that situation again. If we end up with another 25-foot heave, and this time it doesn’t go in, you’ll get your answer as to why it matters. Or, is this another example of, we have to only discuss the positive side of things on a message board?

I see your point, and some have already said what I thought, but there are a couple of counterpoints: What if he did call a play and JM just decided to go 1on1 and get a bucket however the opportunity presented? I know many here don't watch much NBA, but if you do, I'm sure you have seen countless end-of-game situations, where the best player on the team gets the ball, one on one and makes a play. They either go score or make a play for a teammate.

These young guys try to pattern themselves after those guys, and like someone said earlier, they all practice those step-back jumpers a lot. It's not a new concept. I remember Tubbs giving the ball to TMac and telling him to go score a bucket in late-game situations. I also remember KS doing it in the conference tournament, late in a game. He kept telling, if my memory is correct, Kelly Newton to go one on one with a guy who couldn't guard him, and the rest of the players just got out of the way. If it wasn't Newton I apologize, because I'm old..... . I thought our offensive game plan was decent yesterday because we made an effort to keep attacking them with drives to the rim. Heck even Oweh found some confidence after making a couple of drives. OS-who did the same thing by giving the ball to Smalls & Williams and letting them beat our guys one on one late in the game.

 

[BoulderSooner]

I see your point, and some have already said what I thought, but there are a couple of counterpoints: What if he did call a play and JM just decided to go 1on1 and get a bucket however the opportunity presented? I know many here don't watch much NBA, but if you do, I'm sure you have seen countless end-of-game situations, where the best player on the team gets the ball, one on one and makes a play. They either go score or make a play for a teammate.

These young guys try to pattern themselves after those guys, and like someone said earlier, they all practice those step-back jumpers a lot. It's not a new concept. I remember Tubbs giving the ball to TMac and telling him to go score a bucket in late-game situations. I also remember KS doing it in the conference tournament, late in a game. He kept telling, if my memory is correct, Kelly Newton to go one on one with a guy who couldn't guard him, and the rest of the players just got out of the way. If it wasn't Newton I apologize, because I'm old..... . I thought our offensive game plan was decent yesterday because we made an effort to keep attacking them with drives to the rim. Heck even Oweh found some confidence after making a couple of drives. OS-who did the same thing by giving the ball to Smalls & Williams and letting them beat our guys one on one late in the game.

KS 100% did this with Nolan Johnson 1 on 1 vs dmason ... and he scored over and over and over again ...

 

[jmizzy4ou]

KS 100% did this with Nolan Johnson 1 on 1 vs dmason ... and he scored over and over and over again ...

Thank you!!! It was Nolan Johnson. Glad I wasn't crazy for remembering that.

 

[SwitzersBoys]

I’ve heard the postgame interviews and explanations and have watched the replay plenty of times, and as thrilling as it was, I still can’t figure out how, with that much time left to set up a play, we didn’t have more options available when they cut off JM’s driving lane. There is nothing worse than throwing up a prayer and hoping it gets answered when you only need a two. You have to know that OSU is going to do everything possible to prevent JM from getting downhill or drawing a foul. If that happens, surely there have to be some counters available.

We haven’t played many close games this year and yesterday was the first time we were down 1 with the ball in that situation. But presumably, it’ll happen again in an equally important game. Moser needs to get back to the drawing board because that shot only goes in maybe 20 percent of the time. The other thing I don’t like is allowing the clock to drain … you need to get that shot up with enough time to get a rebound or commit a foul if you miss.

I just got my account set up today but I've been visiting this website for years to get good basketball info. One thing is for sure, you are never going to be happy until they fire Porter, are you? He has made his share of mistakes, but let's give this guy a chance to get this turned around. He has worked his butt off to try to get the fans back in the stands. We have to be honest with our selves and realize that there aren't a lot of "home run" hires that would want to come to Norman for reasons that have been discussed previously. So, if they were to fire him this year, we would be back to a 3 or 4 year rebuild with a new coach. Hopefully, the team can continue to improve and make another jump next season just like they have so far this season. He is getting better talent now so give him a chance. He wasn't left with hardly any players when Lon left. And I'd say as long as Stoops and Joe C thinks he's the right guy, then that's good enough for me.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I just got my account set up today but I've been visiting this website for years to get good basketball info. One thing is for sure, you are never going to be happy until they fire Porter, are you? He has made his share of mistakes, but let's give this guy a chance to get this turned around. He has worked his butt off to try to get the fans back in the stands. We have to be honest with our selves and realize that there aren't a lot of "home run" hires that would want to come to Norman for reasons that have been discussed previously. So, if they were to fire him this year, we would be back to a 3 or 4 year rebuild with a new coach. Hopefully, the team can continue to improve and make another jump next season just like they have so far this season. He is getting better talent now so give him a chance. He wasn't left with hardly any players when Lon left. And I'd say as long as Stoops and Joe C thinks he's the right guy, then that's good enough for me.

I won't be happy till our basketball program is in the tournament consistently, like in the olden days (i.e., any point before 2022). And the idea that some fans still think it takes 3 to 4 years to rebuild with a new coach is just laughable to me. Hell, we kept the same coach last offseason and still had a massive rebuild, and the same is likely again this year. How many years of proof does it take for people to understand: the entire roster needs to be re-recruited every year, whether you have the same coach or a new guy? And regardless of how many guys leave, it doesn't take 3 or 4 years to "rebuild."

As for working his butt off to get people in the stands -- win home games when it is full. That goes a lot further than visiting frat houses.

 

[BoulderSooner]

I just got my account set up today but I've been visiting this website for years to get good basketball info. One thing is for sure, you are never going to be happy until they fire Porter, are you? He has made his share of mistakes, but let's give this guy a chance to get this turned around. He has worked his butt off to try to get the fans back in the stands. We have to be honest with our selves and realize that there aren't a lot of "home run" hires that would want to come to Norman for reasons that have been discussed previously. So, if they were to fire him this year, we would be back to a 3 or 4 year rebuild with a new coach. Hopefully, the team can continue to improve and make another jump next season just like they have so far this season. He is getting better talent now so give him a chance. He wasn't left with hardly any players when Lon left. And I'd say as long as Stoops and Joe C thinks he's the right guy, then that's good enough for me.

great to have you here and great first post

 

[WichitaSooner]

I just got my account set up today but I've been visiting this website for years to get good basketball info. One thing is for sure, you are never going to be happy until they fire Porter, are you? He has made his share of mistakes, but let's give this guy a chance to get this turned around. He has worked his butt off to try to get the fans back in the stands. We have to be honest with our selves and realize that there aren't a lot of "home run" hires that would want to come to Norman for reasons that have been discussed previously. So, if they were to fire him this year, we would be back to a 3 or 4 year rebuild with a new coach. Hopefully, the team can continue to improve and make another jump next season just like they have so far this season. He is getting better talent now so give him a chance. He wasn't left with hardly any players when Lon left. And I'd say as long as Stoops and Joe C thinks he's the right guy, then that's good enough for me.

Also, as much as I like Stoops, what exactly does he have to do with this? First of all, is he a basketball guy? Second of all, do you think he would ever publicly criticize any OU coach? It is so odd to me that the view of some people is that certain people (Joe C, Stoops, the president, Taylor Swift, whoever the case may be) should just be immune from second-guessing. Every AD always hires the person they think is best. That doesn't mean they always get it right.

 

[SwitzersBoys]

great to have you here and great first post

Thank you. I've always enjoyed this site. This is about the best source of info that I've found for OU Basketball.

 

[SwitzersBoys]

I won't be happy till our basketball program is in the tournament consistently, like in the olden days (i.e., any point before 2022). And the idea that some fans still think it takes 3 to 4 years to rebuild with a new coach is just laughable to me. Hell, we kept the same coach last offseason and still had a massive rebuild, and the same is likely again this year. How many years of proof does it take for people to understand: the entire roster needs to be re-recruited every year, whether you have the same coach or a new guy? And regardless of how many guys leave, it doesn't take 3 or 4 years to "rebuild."

As for working his butt off to get people in the stands -- win home games when it is full. That goes a lot further than visiting frat houses

Also, as much as I like Stoops, what exactly does he have to do with this? First of all, is he a basketball guy? Second of all, do you think he would ever publicly criticize any OU coach? It is so odd to me that the view of some people is that certain people (Joe C, Stoops, the president, Taylor Swift, whoever the case may be) should just be immune from second-guessing. Every AD always hires the person they think is best. That doesn't mean they always get it right.

No, I don't think Stoops would criticize the basketball coach if he didn't like him. But I also don't think Stoops would be sticking his neck out there right now by telling people to go support him like he has if he didn't like Porter. There's a good chance that he see's a lot more that goes on that you and me.

 

[Abe]

I believe the landscape has significantly changed. $$$$ drives recruiting. 3-4 years and a basketful of money, fan support, coaching and top flight facilities are all elements of basketball programs.

 

[OUSKINS]

I have pretty strong feelings on this. First of all, as always, multiple things can be true at once. In this instance:

1. The play design completely
2. Doesn’t mean it was a bad play design

There is a huge misconception on almost every level of basketball when it comes to final possessions with game on the line… especially in the half court after a timeout.

VERY rarely in that situation does a play “work” or does the offensive team get a really good/clean look. This is because it’s not hard to play defense in a one-possession situation… especially inbounding at half court, especially after a timeout when the coach can insert his top defensive lineup and go over various contingencies.

In the history of basketball at all levels, final shots are generally difficult, more often than not, whatever play was called, gets derailed. This is either due to good defense, or perhaps the ball handler rushing things, etc. This is why so many games over the years end on really tough makes or misses (misses more often).

Just think about it. Go through your mental Rolodex of game winners in history. Usually pretty tough shots and usually a star is making them.

On Saturday, Moser did the smartest thing. He drew up a play to get the ball moving to the basket. This allows for a potential foul, a make, a putback, et.

But the most important thing he did was make sure the ball was in the hands of his best shot-maker/improviser on the team. This way if and when the play goes south you have the ball in the hands of someone who can make chicken salad out of you know what.

Either OSU drew up a stellar counter, JM didn’t run it all that well, or Moser didn’t plan it very well. But whatever the case may be, the ball did wind up in the hands of the best possible option to make some magic happen. Smart move.