Hamilton/Avila

[WTSooner]

Anybody have any thoughts as to whether one of them will redshirt next year? I kind of hope not, but we did redshirt Bennett this year in a similar situation.

 

[garyeb2]

I have thoughts. But, no information. I say no. The situation isn't similar.

 

[nikebasketball]

unless we get a transfer that can play right away Avila wont red shirt.I hope Hamilton doesnt eithier we need a big body incase of foul trouble or injury.If 1 was to red shirt it would be Hamilton cause he is a project

 

[WTSooner]

I have thoughts. But, no information. I say no. The situation isn't similar.

I think it's more similar than you think, in regards to numbers. If you mean it is dissimilar due to Bennett having some potential that the coaches thought they could bring out with an extra year of coaching, and the other guys (Hamilton/Avila) don't, well, I can't speak to that.

But we basically played 9-10 guys last year, with Neal being that 10th guy. I'd argue that we basically ended the season with Grooms/Cousins/Hornbeak/Pledger/Hield as our 1-3 guys, and Osby/M'Baye/Cam/Fitz as our 4-5 guys. And Neal was whatever.

Next year I could see Woodard/Cousins/Hornbeak/Hield/Booker taking the place of the 5 guards above, and Bennett/Spangler/Cam and one of Avila/Hamilton taking the place of the 4 bigs above. That would still leave Neal and Cole, but we could redshirt one of Hamilton/Avila (Hamilton seems more likely, I suppose), and still have similar depth to last year, or possibly more.

Time will tell I suppose.

 

[garyeb2]

Last year Kruger had experienced returners in Osby and Fitz. He also had M'Baye who he knew was better than Fitz. No such situation exist this year. I'm pretty high on Spangler's chances and also think that Bennett will be ready to contribute in a good way.

But, they both need to get in a game and show something. I don't think Cam will spend much time playing the 4. Kruger will have 5, Spangler, Bennett, the two juco's, and Cole to come up with a two deep. Not much room for a redshirt until those sort themselves out in competition.

 

[cowboysooner]

WT's thinking on this issue makes sense to me. But, not having seen much of Bennett and nothing of Avila and Hamilton, I just don't know. I bet Lon doesn't know right now what he will do next year.

I think some things are certain. Spangler will be in the rotation at the 4 and probably start. Second, Hamiton won't weight 280 pds. Like fitz, Lon will trim him up substantially by the first game. So whatever he is now, he will be different by next year.

Cam is a wild card in my mind. If he likes his bigs enough, he could move Cam to the wing full time. Or, he could leave him in his tweener status and play him some on the wing and some at the 4. I anticipate Cam having a big senior year and being improved.

I am still struggling to see where our scoring is going to come from. I bet Lon is burning the midnight oil on that issue until next year. We should be pretty good defensively.

 

[WTSooner]

My problem with moving Cam to the wing, is who are you going to take minutes from? Hornbeak? Hield? Booker? Those guys are our future, and I want them playing as much as possible, and as much as they deserve (earn in practice). I just think there are more minutes for Cam at the 4, and I think he played better there this season.

And I see Spangler playing more 5, than 4. Isn't Hamilton probably the only guy that is really bigger, and more limited (athletically) than Spangler? Cam and Bennett would certainly be the 4's if they were on the floor with Spangler.

 

[garyeb2]

My problem with moving Cam to the wing, is who are you going to take minutes from? Hornbeak? Hield? Booker? Those guys are our future, and I want them playing as much as possible, and as much as they deserve (earn in practice). I just think there are more minutes for Cam at the 4, and I think he played better there this season.

And I see Spangler playing more 5, than 4. Isn't Hamilton probably the only guy that is really bigger, and more limited (athletically) than Spangler? Cam and Bennett would certainly be the 4's if they were on the floor with Spangler.

Where did you get the idea that Spangler is limited athletically? He is fast, strong, and well coordinated. He is no M'Baye. But, neither was Osby. Not having seen the juco's, I would say that he is by far the most athletic of our bigs.

I've mentioned this before. Kruger has gone out of his way to recruit bigs. My guess is that he plans on playing them two at a time for the most part. I'm happy about the Booker signing. But, he doesn't have any minutes coming. Everyone that he will be competing for minutes with will be bigger, stronger, and faster. Any productive time we get out of him next season will be a pure bonus.

 

[WTSooner]

Where did you get the idea that Spangler is limited athletically? He is fast, strong, and well coordinated. He is no M'Baye. But, neither was Osby. Not having seen the juco's, I would say that he is by far the most athletic of our bigs.

I didn't really call him limited, just more limited than some guys. I don't think Spangler is as versatile as Osby was either. I don't think he is as versatile as Bennett or Avila (guessing here, since I haven't seen much of them, but it's an educated guess). He certainly isn't as versatile as Cam. Really, the only big that I know is less versatile than Spangler is Hamilton.

Spangler's strengths all suggest he will play the 5. He is better around the basket at both ends, than away from it. He will probably be our best rebounder. He is probably our strongest post. He is suppose to have more limited jump shooting range than either Bennett or Avila (from what I've read). And yes, while he moves good for a big man, I don't think LK wants him out hedging ball screens like M'Baye/Osby did. I think LK would rather give that job to Cam, or Bennett, or Avila. That is just how I see it playing out. I'd just about guarantee Spangler is our starting 5. I'm certainly not bashing Spangler, I just see his role more in line with a Kevin Bookout, than an M'Baye/Osby. I want him close to the basket at both ends, and the best way to do that is to make him our 5.

I guess I can see Cam taking minutes from Booker if Booker isn't ready. But I don't think LK went and got Booker to sit the bench. Shooters are important in basketball games. And even if Hornbeak and Hield improve their shooting, we still need somebody off the bench that is a threat. We can both agree that won't be Cam. Probably won't be Cousins/Woodard either. So I think Booker gets his minutes (15 a game or so).

 

[garyeb2]

I didn't really call him limited, just more limited than some guys. I don't think Spangler is as versatile as Osby was either. I don't think he is as versatile as Bennett or Avila (guessing here, since I haven't seen much of him). He certainly isn't as versatile as Cam. Really, the only big that I know is less versatile than Spangler is Hamilton.

Spangler's strengths all suggest he will play the 5. He is better around the basket at both ends, than away from it. He will probably be our best rebounder. He is suppose to have more limited jump shooting range than either Bennett or Avila (from what I've read). And yes, while he moves good for a big man, I don't think LK wants him out hedging ball screens like M'Baye/Osby did. I think LK would rather give that job to Cam, or Bennett, or Avila. That is just how I see it playing out. I'd just about guarantee Spangler is our starting 5. I'm certainly not bashing Spangler, I just see his role more in line with a Kevin Bookout, than an M'Baye/Osby. I want him close to the basket at both ends, and the best way to do that is to make him our 5.

I guess I can see Cam taking minutes from Booker if Booker isn't ready. But I don't think LK went and got Booker to sit the bench. Shooters are important in basketball games. And even if Hornbeak and Hield improve their shooting, we still need somebody off the bench that is a threat. We can both agree that won't be Cam. Probably won't be Cousins/Woodard either. So I think Booker gets his minutes (15 a game or so).

We must read different things. Spangler is a completely different level athlete than Bennett. Bennett should probably be of some help and mayby the incoming juco kid too. But, Spangler has the makings of a big time college basketball player.

 

[KBaden145]

The Bookout comparison isn't completely accurate. I made that comparison at a practice to Houck and he I indicated it wasn't a good comparison. As I watched, he is much more like Osby than Bookout. He is a true 4 and moves very well. I think Najera would be another good comparison as well. Obviously, he probably won't be that good but he can move.

 

[KBaden145]

Hamilton's weight and past injury issues concern me some. I would think, if he isn't ready to go, he would be the best redshirt candidate. The ideal situation for me would be for every pound of fat he loses to be transferred to a pound of muscle on DJ Bennett.

 

[WTSooner]

The Bookout comparison isn't completely accurate. I made that comparison at a practice to Houck and he I indicated it wasn't a good comparison. As I watched, he is much more like Osby than Bookout. He is a true 4 and moves very well. I think Najera would be another good comparison as well. Obviously, he probably won't be that good but he can move.

I don't think you guys are taking my comparison the right way.

I didn't mean that he moved like Bookout. There is a nearly 50 pound weight difference there. They are different players for sure. But I don't like the Eduardo comparison either. Spangler is not capable of shooting the 3 like Eddie did, nor is he capable of playing the 3 like Eddie did. There are some parts of that comparison that work, just like there are some with the Bookout comparison that work.

I just think if next year's OU team was playing this past KU team tomorrow, Spangler would be the guy that started out defending Withey. Regardless of who started beside him in the post. And on offense, I think Spanger will post up more on the block than our other post options too.

 

[WTSooner]

Hamilton's weight and past injury issues concern me some. I would think, if he isn't ready to go, he would be the best redshirt candidate. The ideal situation for me would be for every pound of fat he loses to be transferred to a pound of muscle on DJ Bennett.

I'd rather DJ stay lean, in the mold of Jabahri Brown. They are listed at almost identical sizes, and Brown held up just fine in the Big 12 when there were more true centers to matchup against.

 

[KBaden145]

I'd rather DJ stay lean, in the mold of Jabahri Brown. They are listed at almost identical sizes, and Brown held up just fine in the Big 12 when there were more true centers to matchup against.

I agree but I'm mostly saying I want him stronger. 15-20 pounds or so of muscle on his long frame would be very beneficial.

 

[KBaden145]

I don't think you guys are taking my comparison the right way.

I didn't mean that he moved like Bookout. There is a nearly 50 pound weight difference there. They are different players for sure. But I don't like the Eduardo comparison either. Spangler is not capable of shooting the 3 like Eddie did, nor is he capable of playing the 3 like Eddie did. There are some parts of that comparison that work, just like there are some with the Bookout comparison that work.

I just think if next year's OU team was playing this past KU team tomorrow, Spangler would be the guy that started out defending Withey. Regardless of who started beside him in the post. And on offense, I think Spanger will post up more on the block than our other post options too.

If Osby was the primary defender on Withey this year, I agree with you. I honestly don't remember.

 

[cowboysooner]

Who knows, but if Cam improves, I just don't see Lon starting Cam and Spangler inside. We would be awfully short. Like gary mentioned, Lon is bringing in a lot of bigs only to play one.

I always saw Sampson as a interchangeable 2 inside and 3 outside coach. I am guessing this is Lon's plan as well, provided he can put two playable bigs out there.

So back to WT's point, which I'm not sure some are getting (or maybe I'm not getting), we have Spangler, Bennett, Avila, Hamilton, cole and Cam inside, and since he will likely only give minutes to 4 inside guys, will Avila or Hamilton redshirt.

I just don't know because I don't know enough about some of these guys. I still think Cam goes back outside, and I agree this mucks up the minutes to the pure guards, and in the absence of an injury that forces a redshirt, plays spangler, Bennett, avila and Hamilton in the post. If he keeps cam inside some, and/or either cole or neal show they can play some minutes inside, then he might redshirt avila or Hamilton if they would agree to it.

Just glad we have some bigs and are talking about options on the team instead of needs all the time.

 

[KBaden145]

I'd be surprised if anything significant changes with how Cam is used except a little more playing time. I don't see him starting or necessarily being a star, just what he was this season with more floor time. He is a very good role player (a poor man's Selvy) but I think his role will increase some.