I think Capel needs a roster revamp

[sdcloud9]

The Snyder/Capel comparison is really appropriate.

I was always afraid to play Mizzou when he was there because they were always pretty talented but had no guts.

What's sad is Tiny and TMG came here because they wanted to play with WW. That tells me that something has happened recently because I don't think anyone wants to play with WW. I don't blame them.

It seems unfair to throw WW under the bus. But when your best guy doesn't play hard or work to do the little things, things will go down hill fast. From having been involved in high school coaching, a talented kid not committed to winning is the deathnail to any coach, if he can't turn him around.

 

[soonerdood]

Capel should be fired. I don't care that he played at Duke and don't care how much Jay-Z he can recite. Lazy basketball does not work at Oklahoma and that is all I have seen out of histeams that don't have #1 overall picks on them.

 

[NickZepp]

The Snyder/Capel comparison is really appropriate.

I was always afraid to play Mizzou when he was there because they were always pretty talented but had no guts.

What's sad is Tiny and TMG came here because they wanted to play with WW. That tells me that something has happened recently because I don't think anyone wants to play with WW. I don't blame them.

It seems unfair to throw WW under the bus. But when your best guy doesn't play hard or work to do the little things, things will go down hill fast. From having been involved in high school coaching, a talented kid not committed to winning is the deathnail to any coach, if he can't turn him around.

it's too early to compare Capel to Snyder. I think Capel is a good coach but there's some stuff going on here beyond his control. Some of it is his fault but sometimes you really don't know the guys you recruit as people.

 

[Sawyer]

Capel's season last year trumps anything Quin ever did. If nothing else, Capel's shown that if he has the team, he's capable of doing great things with it. Quin had the team (the Elite Eight team with Gilbert, Rush, Johnson, Paulding, etc), but woefully underperformed with exception to a four game span in March.

What Quin never could do, and what Capel still needs to prove he can do, is build a complete team with his own guys. Quin walked into a pretty decent situation with a leader like Clarence Gilbert and brought in a very talented first recruit in Kareem Rush. Capel's start at OU was not much different. Once the first few years were over with, though, Quin had no idea what he was doing. We had no point guards... which led him to take a chance on Ricky Clemons (despite a future All-ACC point guard playing at a junior college about 30 minutes from Columbia... and he wanted to play at Mizzou, but Quin didn't even look at him... so stupid), which led to Quin's ultimate downfall.

Like I said, Capel's got about 10 months to clean up the current OU mess. If he's able to right the ship, things could go very well for him. I still consider him at least a decent coach and a good recruiter of individual talent. Fill the talent gap (not to mention find some good role players) and fix whatever problems exist with the current group and Capel will be fine. But if he can't do that by the start of next season, it will probably be very difficult for him to succeed long-term at OU.

 

[NickZepp]

There's a lot of truth to your post. I can't completely disagree with most of it.

 

[topcat]

Capel's season last year trumps anything Quin ever did. If nothing else, Capel's shown that if he has the team, he's capable of doing great things with it. Quin had the team (the Elite Eight team with Gilbert, Rush, Johnson, Paulding, etc), but woefully underperformed with exception to a four game span in March.

What Quin never could do, and what Capel still needs to prove he can do, is build a complete team with his own guys. Quin walked into a pretty decent situation with a leader like Clarence Gilbert and brought in a very talented first recruit in Kareem Rush. Capel's start at OU was not much different. Once the first few years were over with, though, Quin had no idea what he was doing. We had no point guards... which led him to take a chance on Ricky Clemons (despite a future All-ACC point guard playing at a junior college about 30 minutes from Columbia... and he wanted to play at Mizzou, but Quin didn't even look at him... so stupid), which led to Quin's ultimate downfall.

Like I said, Capel's got about 10 months to clean up the current OU mess. If he's able to right the ship, things could go very well for him. I still consider him at least a decent coach and a good recruiter of individual talent. Fill the talent gap (not to mention find some good role players) and fix whatever problems exist with the current group and Capel will be fine. But if he can't do that by the start of next season, it will probably be very difficult for him to succeed long-term at OU.

What has changed in the last 3 days? How can Coach clean up the current mess without running off some guys? You were against cleaning house 3 days ago.

Sawyer posted:
Coaches at this level should be capable of scouting a recruit well enough that they aren't recruiting over him and pushing him out the door less than a year later. If he can't, I don't want him as a coach at my school.

I don't fault coaches who cut ties with guys with bad attitudes or work ethics. If a guy is causing constant problems or completely neglecting academic responsibilities, or if he's getting into legal problems, he should be gone. But I do fault coaches who bring in players and then almost immediately start looking to replace those players. If the guy isn't good enough for you, don't sign him in the first place. If you don't know if he's good enough... you're not doing your job (or maybe can't). Certainly there will be occasional recruiting misses. And IMO, a coach should be willing to eat a few of those. Two or three guys at the end of the bench who don't contribute won't kill most teams.

 

[Tony]

Clarence Gilbert

As if the day couldn't get any worse, I gotta go and read this guy's name to bring back memories. Least favorite player in Big 12 history? Off the top of my head, I would have to say yes.

 

[Sawyer]

As if the day couldn't get any worse, I gotta go and read this guy's name to bring back memories. Least favorite player in Big 12 history? Off the top of my head, I would have to say yes.

Just out of curiosity... why?

 

[Tony]

Just out of curiosity... why?

Bodyslamming Eduardo Najera in the Big 12 tournament is a good place to start.

 

[Sawyer]

What has changed in the last 3 days? How can Coach clean up the current mess without running off some guys? You were against cleaning house 3 days ago.

Sawyer posted:
Coaches at this level should be capable of scouting a recruit well enough that they aren't recruiting over him and pushing him out the door less than a year later. If he can't, I don't want him as a coach at my school.

I don't fault coaches who cut ties with guys with bad attitudes or work ethics. If a guy is causing constant problems or completely neglecting academic responsibilities, or if he's getting into legal problems, he should be gone. But I do fault coaches who bring in players and then almost immediately start looking to replace those players. If the guy isn't good enough for you, don't sign him in the first place. If you don't know if he's good enough... you're not doing your job (or maybe can't). Certainly there will be occasional recruiting misses. And IMO, a coach should be willing to eat a few of those. Two or three guys at the end of the bench who don't contribute won't kill most teams.

There's a difference between solving major issues and running off a few players simply because you decided after a few months they weren't talented enough.

What I wouldn't support Capel doing would be running off someone like Hardrick to make room for someone else.

What I wouldn't fault him for is strongly encouraging Warren to explore professional options if he can't get his act in gear, and making it explicitly clear to anyone else who isn't pulling his weight that they, too, have other options they may need to explore.

I'm not 100% sure on who is or isn't on scholarship at OU, but as far as I can tell there are 8-10 scholarship players expected back next year (depending on whether or not Honore gets a scholarship, Franklin is on one and if Warren comes back). There are two players currently committed. That leaves at least one scholarship to work with, and possibly as many as three (or more if other players leave). I actually thought there was a little more room than that.

I'm not advocating he runs off bad players. I am suggesting he needs to figure out how to get the most out of the guys he has and filling in the gaps with the right mix of talent and role players. If a player isn't going to allow Capel to maximize his talent, then that player probably should go, and I wouldn't fault him for that.

What I think Capel needs to do and what Ford has been doing are completely different.

 

[Sawyer]

Bodyslamming Eduardo Najera in the Big 12 tournament is a good place to start.

Was that before or after Najera took Dooling out with a closed fist foul on a breakaway dunk attempt?

Najera was about as dirty as they come.

 

[Tony]

After (the supposed incident).

False. And irrelevent

 

[Sawyer]

Najera is the Gilbert (or Jason Sutherland) of OU... OU fans love him, pretty much everyone else hates his guts (which, incidentally, is exactly what OU could use right now... a player that everyone else hates but makes OU fans proud).