KU guards

[Soonerinkc]

Yeah, Wichita...
I think everyone is comparing their FRESHMAN guards to Mason/Graham (both in the NBA now).

Ku was definitely a "guard" team the last couple of years, this yr it'll be an inside out game for them. My thought was their guards played as well as ours and that's FR vs 2 yr SR.

Vick is their James...

I thought it was "ironic" that depth was suppose to be OU's strength but ku definitely was subbing more guys than we were. *edit we actually used more guys more minutes

I was one that said they are not the #5 team...maybe not now. It'll be interesting to see how they jell as a team in March. Definitely have some talent.

Reynolds/Calixte - 5 asst/8 TO's . 17 pts 2 steals (w/James- 7 asst/10 TO's 28 pts 4 steals)
Grimes/Dotson - 2 asst/5 TO's - 30 pts 5 steals (w/Vick - 3 asst/9 TO's 42 pts 9 steals)

so, I'd say their 2 FR guards outplayed our 2 5th yr Sr guards.

 

[sperry]

Yeah, Wichita...
I think everyone is comparing their FRESHMAN guards to Mason/Graham (both in the NBA now).

Ku was definitely a "guard" team the last couple of years, this yr it'll be an inside out game for them. My thought was their guards played as well as ours and that's FR vs 2 yr SR.

Vick is their James...

I thought it was "ironic" that depth was suppose to be OU's strength but ku definitely was subbing more guys than we were.

I was one that said they are not the #5 team...maybe not now. It'll be interesting to see how they jell as a team in March. Definitely have some talent.

You may be right that their guards played as well as ours; the problem of course being that our guards didn't play well. 3 assists to 9 turnovers, and that's with two excellent big men and not much interior defense available for us. Assists should have been extremely easy to come by.


As for depth, we're 9 deep. Not sure what you're talking about on that one.

 

[Soonerinkc]

You may be right that their guards played as well as ours; the problem of course being that our guards didn't play well. 3 assists to 9 turnovers, and that's with two excellent big men and not much interior defense available for us. Assists should have been extremely easy to come by.


As for depth, we're 9 deep. Not sure what you're talking about on that one.

8 deep (JM isn't playing) and honestly 2 of the 8 played 12/15 minutes...so they are there for "breathers". Guess I don't call that "depth", just my take. Yes, odomes and freeman have had some good/decent games but to me, depth is they come in and production (off/def) doesn't drop much.

At least 2 of Calixte's TO's were him driving into the lane...going 1/5. Ku just packed it in. No chance of an assist, he was going to the rim.

"two excellent big men"...you talking ku? not sure how that turns into assists for us.

 

[sperry]

8 deep (JM isn't playing) and honestly 2 of the 8 played 12/15 minutes...so they are there for "breathers". Guess I don't call that "depth", just my take. Yes, odomes and freeman have had some good/decent games but to me, depth is they come in and production (off/def) doesn't drop much.

At least 2 of Calixte's TO's were him driving into the lane...going 1/5. Ku just packed it in. No chance of an assist, he was going to the rim.

"two excellent big men"...you talking ku? not sure how that turns into assists for us.

I'm talking about KU, who are the ones who had 3 assists to 9 turnovers from their backcourt to go along with with a 45/25/66 shooting split.

As for our depth, in what world is 12-15 minutes a "breather"? That's a third of the game. And yes we are 9 deep. McNease will be back.

 

[Soonerinkc]

I'm talking about KU, who are the ones who had 3 assists to 9 turnovers from their backcourt to go along with with a 45/25/66 shooting split.

As for our depth, in what world is 12-15 minutes a "breather"? That's a third of the game. And yes we are 9 deep. McNease will be back.

Grimes/Dotson/Vick had 3 asst/9 TO's...but also scored 42 pts and had 14 steals. Is this what you were asking?

Not argue about depth, we have different ideas..that's fine. I will say just putting in time (for me) doesn't constitute depth. Just my own deal.

 

[sperry]

Grimes/Dotson/Vick had 3 asst/9 TO's...but also scored 42 pts and had 14 steals. Is this what you were asking?

Not argue about depth, we have different ideas..that's fine. I will say just putting in time (for me) doesn't constitute depth. Just my own deal.

42 points on not great shooting from 3 guys is not something to write home about. They did play good defense.

 

[WichitaSooner]

42 points on not great shooting from 3 guys is not something to write home about. They did play good defense.

I love how you just dismiss the defensive part of their game, as if "yeah, it's nice, but not that big a deal." That defense directly led to a ton of transition points in a game that was largely decided by those buckets. They also combined for the biggest play of the game when Grimes stole the ball from Reynolds and fed Dotson for an and-one when we had the ball, down six, with plenty of time left.

And being able to score 42 points on a poor shooting night is actually pretty impressive. Look, I'm not saying they are the best backcourt in the country, but I completely disagree with anyone who thinks that we have a decided advantage over them in that area. And I say that as someone who really likes our guards, by the way.

 

[sperry]

I love how you just dismiss the defensive part of their game, as if "yeah, it's nice, but not that big a deal." That defense directly led to a ton of transition points in a game that was largely decided by those buckets. They also combined for the biggest play of the game when Grimes stole the ball from Reynolds and fed Dotson for an and-one when we had the ball, down six, with plenty of time left.

And being able to score 42 points on a poor shooting night is actually pretty impressive. Look, I'm not saying they are the best backcourt in the country, but I completely disagree with anyone who thinks that we have a decided advantage over them in that area. And I say that as someone who really likes our guards, by the way.

We do have a decided advantage over them in that area. It will show in Norman. These KU guards are not good, and it's going to flash on the road and in tournament time.

 

[BCSooners]

We do have a decided advantage over them in that area. It will show in Norman. These KU guards are not good, and it's going to flash on the road and in tournament time.

I feel like the guards are a push right now at best. Their guards have a lot more room for improvement though. KU guards are a potentially top 10 backcourt (1-3) and that’s with Grimes not putting it together yet. To say their guards aren’t good is a joke.

 

[coolm]

I feel like the guards are a push right now at best. Their guards have a lot more room for improvement though. KU guards are a potentially top 10 backcourt (1-3) and that’s with Grimes not putting it together yet. To say their guards aren’t good is a joke.

a push? It is certainly not "a push". Our guards are more mature and play better point guard as well as better overall defense. Their guards have high levels of athleticism and a potential to be wonderful shooters - but they're not as good as the OU backcourt and even Self admitted it.

 

[WichitaSooner]

We do have a decided advantage over them in that area. It will show in Norman. These KU guards are not good, and it's going to flash on the road and in tournament time.

On the road, KU has already won away from home against Tennessee (ranked in the top 3), Marquette (top 20), and Michigan State (top 10). Against Michigan State, on the biggest stage in the country on opening night, Grimes and Dotson scored 37 on 9-15 from 3 in their first career games. Against Tennessee, Dotson and Vick combined for 32 on 11-20 overall, 4-8 from three. KU always wins more road games in conference play than any other team in the Big 12, and I suspect that will remain true this season. Meanwhile, our guard play hasn't exactly been great in our past two games, both of which were . . . on the road. So if that advantage is going to "flash" on the road, it better start soon.

Dotson and Vick also shoot a significantly better percentage from 3 on the season than James, who most people on this board consider to be our most reliable shooter. These are all facts. Other than a gut feeling, which is no doubt influenced by the fact that you have watched OU play far more than KU, what makes you think we have a "decided advantage" and that their guards are "not good?" I love the defense and intangibles that Reynolds, Calixte, and Bieniemy bring, and don't think it is crazy to suggest our group is on par with them (and better in certain areas), but you act as if we have the Splash Brothers and KU has somehow gone 12-1 against a great schedule with some dudes from the Y playing guard.

 

[pnkranger]

For you people saying those are not good guards, I'd like some of what you're smoking.

 

[BCSooners]

a push? It is certainly not "a push". Our guards are more mature and play better point guard as well as better overall defense. Their guards have high levels of athleticism and a potential to be wonderful shooters - but they're not as good as the OU backcourt and even Self admitted it.

Lol ok. OU has maturity over them but you might be the only person I’ve heard of to take Calixte over Dotson, and I love Calixte. Vick was the best defender of the starting guards, and Grimes has the most talent.

I hate the fact that I’m pumping KU but some of you act like OU is more talented and should’ve won in AFH because they are better but the refs screwed them. This team plays hard, together, and are very mature with the only goal of winning. I’m taking people saying KU isn’t good is a backhanded slight on how tough OU played them.

OU’s post defense was really good, especially against Lawson. I thought that’s were the game would be decided but it wasn’t.

 

[Soonerinkc]

a push? It is certainly not "a push". Our guards are more mature and play better point guard as well as better overall defense. Their guards have high levels of athleticism and a potential to be wonderful shooters - but they're not as good as the OU backcourt and even Self admitted it.

so our "mature" guards got outplayed...ok...pts and steals by ku freshman guards...Self also said Grimes is the best pg he's ever recruited...

To me that means ku guards have more room to grow this season...we'll see by the end of the season.

 

[inoref]

How many teams would want kansas guards or would want ours? I thought OU guards did okay overall, pretty good on defense