No talk of OSU's predictable faceplant?

[OUhoops11]

Tuergon should be coach of the year... especially considering how they lost Roland.

Considering your recent post about coaches, I don't give you much credibility in the subject

Interesting that some of you don't like Jeff Capel.

I actually don't think there's anything inherently "unlikeable" about him... sure he's the OU coach, but I don't think he's anywhere near some other past and present OU coaches on the "unlikable" scale.

Bob Stoops - unlikeable (arrogant, huge whiner)
Kelvin Sampson - highly unlikeable (cheater, world-class whiner)
Billy Tubbs - extremely unlikeable (arrogant douche)
Sonny Gollaway - extremely unlikeable (arrogant douche)

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I actually don't find Switzer all that unlikeable.

Switzer's arrogance to me always seemed tounge-in-cheek... it was like a big show or something.

Contrast that to guys like Stoops and Tubbs, who just are that way.

 

[oSuJeff97]

Considering your recent post about coaches, I don't give you much credibility in the subject

So I don't have any credibility because I think Kelvin Sampson is a cheater/whiner, or that Tubbs, Gollaway and Stoops are arrogant?

Hardly any new revelations there.

I didn't say anything about their coaching abilities, did I?

That thread was about "likeability" of non-OSU coaches on the OSU message board. There are lots of coaches out there who I don't like, but respect and think they do a good job... Stoops is certainly one. Hell, I'm certain that I wouldn't "like" Travis Ford if he wasn't our coach.

But hey - nice attempt at a "tattle-tale" post, though. :clap

Who?

I'd say off hand that Willie Warren, TMG and Gallon have talent equal to Anderson. (Given of course that TMG and Gallon play different positions.) All four of those players have first-round draft talent.

Heck, there were people on this site last year and this year before the season started proclaiming that WW was superior to Anderson.

 

[campbest]

I'd say off hand that Willie Warren, TMG and Gallon have talent equal to Anderson. (Given of course that TMG and Gallon play different positions.) All four of those players have first-round draft talent.

Heck, there were people on this site last year and this year before the season started proclaiming that WW was superior to Anderson.

I think Willie does...but I'm not going to waste any time comparing a 2010 JA against a 2010 Gallon/TMG, because there isn't any comparison. Coaching JA vs. coaching two freshman is not even in the same ballpark.

No doubt Ford has done a better job, OSU has also got a huge lift from the emergence of Pilgrim.

 

[oSuJeff97]

I think Willie does...but I'm not going to waste any time comparing a 2010 JA against a 2010 Gallon/TMG, because there isn't any comparison. Coaching JA vs. coaching two freshman is not even in the same ballpark.

Well, for one thing it's tough to compare across positions, but I don't think you're giving TMG enough credit:

13.8 points per game
41% 3-point FGs
4.8 assists/game
1.76 assist/TO ratio

That's a really salty stat line for an experienced point guard in the Big 12... let alone a true freshman.

Also, consider that his stats have actually either improved or held steady in conference games, which is unusual for a freshman:

17.0 points per game
42% 3-point FGs
4.6 assists/game
1.41 assist/TO ratio

That dude is oozing talent.

The Gallon comparison is a bit tougher. He may have equal or better talent than Anderson, but his problem is upstairs.

I think it's debatalbe if that is something you blame on the coach or not.

No doubt Ford has done a better job, OSU has also got a huge lift from the emergence of Pilgrim

Do we not attribute the emergence of Pilgrim to coaching?

 

[seniorsooner]

I'd say off hand that Willie Warren, TMG and Gallon have talent equal to Anderson. (Given of course that TMG and Gallon play different positions.) All four of those players have first-round draft talent.

Heck, there were people on this site last year and this year before the season started proclaiming that WW was superior to Anderson.

Why? Because RecruitingGeeksRUs.com gave them all 5 stars? Based on talent and performance on the floor right now it is not even close. But I know what you're getting at, the reason Anderson is better is solely because Capel is a terrible coach.

 

[NickZepp]

OSU seems to like playing together. I don't think they have a lot of talent there. Anderson is obviously a great talent. But the rest of the cast isn't near as good as they have played this year. I think the difference in OU and OSU is chemistry plane and simple. If OU liked playing together like OSU did they would probably be 3rd in the conference at worst right now.

 

[campbest]

Well, for one thing it's tough to compare across positions, but I don't think you're giving TMG enough credit:

13.8 points per game
41% 3-point FGs
4.8 assists/game
1.76 assist/TO ratio

That's a really salty stat line for an experienced point guard in the Big 12... let alone a true freshman.

Also, consider that his stats have actually either improved or held steady in conference games, which is unusual for a freshman:

17.0 points per game
42% 3-point FGs
4.6 assists/game
1.41 assist/TO ratio

That dude is oozing talent.

The Gallon comparison is a bit tougher. He may have equal or better talent than Anderson, but his problem is upstairs.

I think it's debatalbe if that is something you blame on the coach or not.



Do we not attribute the emergence of Pilgrim to coaching?

I definitely believe Pilgrim is more successful because of some coaching, but I also attirbute it to his experience and age.

My biggest problem with the JA vs. TMG/Gallon is experience...our frosh have tons of talent like you said, but neither one of them "gets it" yet. Anderson on the other hand, does and has transformed himself in to (what I believe) the league's POY.

A lot of TMG's #'s have come with WW contributing in a limited role and some very inconsistent supporting cast (especially in the backcourt). Anderson doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, at this point in their respective careers, TMG and Gallon are the exact opposite. Both of them have improved over the course of the year, I don't attribute that to coaching a whole lot, more on the fact that they are getting acclimated to Division I ball and doing so through major minutes.

But like you said, they do have a lot of potential.

 

[DenverSooner]

Who?

Seriously? Willie Warren, TMG and Tiny Gallon are all very similar in talent level to JA. OU probably has the more talented roster (that is not to say OSU does not have good players).

If you don't want to call it coaching, call it chemistry. One team is playing together as a team, the other isn't.

 

[campbest]

Seriously? Willie Warren, TMG and Tiny Gallon are all very similar in talent level to JA. OU probably has the more talented roster (that is not to say OSU does not have good players).

If you don't want to call it coaching, call it chemistry. One team is playing together as a team, the other isn't.

Seriously?

I already conceded WW...but TMG and Gallon have great potential, they've shown flashes of it. But with all due respect to everyone else on our roster, with WW...SOMEONE has to put up some numbers. TMG and Gallon aren't even on the same level as Anderson right now, mostly due to experience and maturity. Just like Anderson wasn't on the same level as the best Big XII players when he was a frosh.

 

[oSuJeff97]

Why? Because RecruitingGeeksRUs.com gave them all 5 stars? Based on talent and performance on the floor right now it is not even close. But I know what you're getting at, the reason Anderson is better is solely because Capel is a terrible coach.

What are you talking about?

Denver is the one who's saying it's all coaching... I haven't said a thing about Capel.

In fact, I said it was "debatable" as to whether or not a coach was responsible for a player "not getting it."

My biggest problem with the JA vs. TMG/Gallon is experience...our frosh have tons of talent like you said, but neither one of them "gets it" yet. Anderson on the other hand, does and has transformed himself in to (what I believe) the league's POY.

Well in my estimation, Anderson has "got it" all along. He's been a soft-spoken, hard-working "no-nonsense" type of guy ever since he arrived at OSU. He's always been a mature, team-leader type... unlike, say, Marshall Moses.

Having that nature has helped him build on his considerable talent that he had coming out of HS.

That's why I say that I'm not sure coaching can do anything about guys who don't "get it"... that's why I'm not sure blaming Capel for everything this year makes much sense, unless you put the blame on him for recruiting these guys in the first place.

 

[campbest]

That's why I say that I'm not sure coaching can do anything about guys who don't "get it"... that's why I'm not sure blaming Capel for everything this year makes much sense, unless you put the blame on him for recruiting these guys in the first place.

+1

Probably shouldn't have used the term "get's it" for my example, meant he has developed into an all-around threat and understands the nuances of the college game. Either way, I agree with both angles, he is a great player.

 

[oSuJeff97]

+1

Probably shouldn't have used the term "get's it" for my example, meant he has developed into an all-around threat and understands the nuances of the college game. Either way, I agree with both angles, he is a great player.

Yeah... I know what you mean. That just comes with experience.

Just my own personal observation from watching them play...

TMG strikes me as one of those guys who maybe has done some knucklehead things this year just becuase he's young... but he strikes me as a hard worker and good team guy on the floor who will grow out of those silly mistakes. I would be VERY excited about his future if I were an OU fan.

Gallon I'm not so sure about... the guy obviously has a ton of talent... I just really don't like his body language on the court.

 

[earlpearl]

TMG is a player. He is an offensive nightmare for opposing clubs. He passes the ball very well, but he can score from anywhere on the court. TMG penetrates as well as anyone in the conference. In short the guy is a beast. What can you do with him? If you sink off a little, he throws up a shot. If you try to get in his grill, he just goes around you and finds an open man or hits a shot. IMO the only thing that keeps TMG from being the best pt guard in the league is defense. If he shores this up he will be big 12 poy of the year and make bigtime bucks at the next level. I love his game period.

WW is full of raw talent. The only thing I will say is that I hope he gets it together.

These two players are equal talent wise to JA. The work effort and desire for WW is in question because he has all the tools to match JA. TMG will get there I think.

As for Tiny who knows. The kid with his quickness and hands could be a dominant force in the paint. Time will tell us how it works out.

A combination of coaching and a willingness on the part of players is what makes a truly great player. They both need each other to excel, but it always must start with desire on the players part. Since I am not on the inside when it comes to the Sooner program then it is unfair of me to give my opinion on whose at fault for player developement, but I can tell you there is a problem somewhere because there is way to much raw talent on the Sooner roster to be sitting where they are now.