Obama's Speech following Oregon massacre

This is just silly.


There is not a requirement for a militia. The Second amendment states: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Your argument that it is somehow tied to use in a militia lost in the Supreme Court and was clearly always wrong. If you could only have guns in the militia, it would state: the right of the people to keep and bear Arms in the militia shall not be infringed. The first clause merely sets forth one reason for the second clause. The first clause does not limit the second clause.

Arms clearly includes guns and it is silly to make an argument that it doesn't. Quite frankly the framers likely intended the people to be able to own any weapons the government could own because they did not trust the government or standing armies. Today that is probably not such a good idea and I can certainly live with the current law. The Supreme Court actually found a graceful way to deal with this particular problem but I am not sure I buy it.

To suggest you cannot carry is as absurd as suggesting arms does not include a gun. The language is keep and bear. Keep means to possess. Bear means to carry on one's person and to have and posses. To argue that carrying guns is not protected by the Second Amendment as drafted is absurd. Why not just amend the Second Amendment?

The Supreme Court has decided it means rifles and hand guns. I personally think it meant cannons and anything else the military had because it is designed in part (but not in total) to allow the people to form a militia that can over throw or support a government. With that said, I don't really want people to have surface to air missiles that can shoot down passenger planes.

There is absolutely nothing extreme about my position. I am applying the plane meaning of the words used. You are grasping at straws trying to find an interpretation that supports your view. The plain meaning of the word arm (in this context) is a weapon. A gun is weapon. Had they intended to exlcude certain weapons, like guns, they would have said except for guns. They you would have a right to keep and bear knives, clubs and other weapons that are not guns. However, that is not what was done.

Assembly really isn't regulated. A government may require a permit but that is about it. They generally may not deny the permit. People are required to have a permit to carry a gun in most states. So both are regulated.

Speech is not regulated in any meaningful way and virtually every attempt to regulate speech fails. Time place and manner restrictions are allowed on certain commercial speech but most of the existing laws would likely lose if actually challenged and taken all the way to Supreme Court. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater. You can't use free speech to justify fraud or other lying (like defamation). But for the most part, the government cannot tell us what to say or stop us from saying things.

Every bit of this is simply trash that ignores what the Constitution actually says and interprets it as the NRA would want.

Speech and assembly are regulated, and what you specify are regulations.

Arms do not mean guns. Arms includes knives, perhaps even clubs. The framers of the Constitution didn't get specific about a lot of things, but left it up to later generations to interpret. We do have the right to regulate what kind of arms.

The fact that something is lost in a given court is not a valid argument. Dred Scott lost. What, exactly, is the well-regulated militia doing in the amendment if it has no bearing? Why put it there in the first place?

You cannot simply accept some NRA version and say that it represents what the framers meant. Also, you cannot assume that the framers' personal intents were even considered valid by them. We didn't outlaw slavery. But, a good number of those who wrote the Constitution expected that we would become mature enough to overcome it.

We the People define what the Constitution means, and it has evolved as our society evolves.

Now, forget the NRA.
 
Every bit of this is simply trash that ignores what the Constitution actually says and interprets it as the NRA would want.

Speech and assembly are regulated, and what you specify are regulations.

Arms do not mean guns. Arms includes knives, perhaps even clubs. The framers of the Constitution didn't get specific about a lot of things, but left it up to later generations to interpret. We do have the right to regulate what kind of arms.

The fact that something is lost in a given court is not a valid argument. Dred Scott lost. What, exactly, is the well-regulated militia doing in the amendment if it has no bearing? Why put it there in the first place?

You cannot simply accept some NRA version and say that it represents what the framers meant. Also, you cannot assume that the framers' personal intents were even considered valid by them. We didn't outlaw slavery. But, a good number of those who wrote the Constitution expected that we would become mature enough to overcome it.

We the People define what the Constitution means, and it has evolved as our society evolves.

Now, forget the NRA.

I don't own guns and really don't care about the NRA. I care about the Constitution and our society. We the People have the right to amend the Constitution but not the right to stretch its meaning in radical and ridiculous ways like you suggest. It is long established in the common law that we use the plain meaning of words when interpreting law.


Do you realize that we amended the Constitution after Dread Scott?
 
I don't own guns and really don't care about the NRA. I care about the Constitution and our society. We the People have the right to amend the Constitution but not the right to stretch its meaning in radical and ridiculous ways like you suggest. It is long established in the common law that we use the plain meaning of words when interpreting law.


Do you realize that we amended the Constitution after Dread Scott?

Do you realize that I did not suggest and radical and ridiculous ways. In fact, I didn't suggest any ways. I just stated things that will be under consideration, and I asked some questions. You supplied your own answers.
 
Not much mention from El Presidente after the stabbing of four individuals at the satellite school of U of CAL or from the liberal based media, for that matter. I guess some things are just pick and choose.
 
Not much mention from El Presidente after the stabbing of four individuals at the satellite school of U of CAL or from the liberal based media, for that matter. I guess some things are just pick and choose.

Obama admitted he was politicizing Oregon. You can't expect him to call out situations he doesn't want to politicize. Doesn't make him a good president in my book but at least he admits his motivations. I suspect the UCal guy was motivated by a youtube video.
 
Re: Obama's speech following Oregon massacre

Gave me chills... motivating in a very "real" sense. Wasn't a typical Presidential "our hearts go out" type of thing... Spoke from the heart about something he is passionate, and right about.

I love how in the speech he calls out the media to look at gun deaths vs. terrorist deaths, and how we spend trillions on terrorism but are absolutely resistant to any gun control. Also loved how he compared us to the rest of the developed world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHrpspY9xI

very moving speech and with comments which SHOULD open people's eyes
 
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