OT: But Not Really...SAE Issue Affecting Recruiting

Soonerbay

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Yes, it's unfortunate that racism still exist in 2015 but the fact that ignoramuses are bold enough to have an open racist chant in an age of cell phone video and social media proves that they are not only racist, but also very, very stupid. It's one thing to be thought a fool/bigot, but it's another thing to open your mouth and remove all doubt. They did and I hope President Boren follows through and "ejects" their hind parts right out of the "game" of an educational opportunity at OU. I'm sure Coach Stoops is not happy right about now and who knows what the REAL affect will be with regards to all athletic programs as well as the overall prospective enrollment of new students.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-fo...all-racist-video-sae-sooners-fraternity-sigma

Kudos to President Boren...
http://news.yahoo.com/ou-fraternity-close-racist-video-posted-online-040106571.html
 
I'm happy that Boren immediately kicked them out, and that the national SAE organization expelled them.

I'm extremely sad that it happened at OU. I honestly thought the University was far beyond that. If it affects recruiting, well you get what you deserve.

Pathetic.
 
It was reported that one football player has decommitted

I don't buy it. He's gotten a lot of big offers lately and probably wants to take some official vacations to these campuses and be catered to.

With him tying his decommit to this, I don't want him and I'm sure OU doesn't anymore either.

On the OU SAE thing: I'm very disappointed in my alma mater, whom I hold a higher standard to. I don't care if musicians rap with that word or it goes on at other campuses; I don't want OU associated with racism
 
I don't buy it. He's gotten a lot of big offers lately and probably wants to take some official vacations to these campuses and be catered to.

With him tying his decommit to this, I don't want him and I'm sure OU doesn't anymore either.

On the OU SAE thing: I'm very disappointed in my alma mater, whom I hold a higher standard to. I don't care if musicians rap with that word or it goes on at other campuses; I don't want OU associated with racism

+1!
 
Disgusting and embarrassing. The n word is bad enough, but talk about hanging from a tree is referring to KKK type behavior and lynching. I advocate dismissal from the university of any person who used those words from the chant. After years on the campus as a staff member, and now working part time in academic areas, I can truthfully say that I have not heard that type of language in 30+ years, and students seem to be 100% integrated. Do not tolerate that type of behavior.
 
Just a thought from an old back woods guy. Growing up in N E Kansas in a small farming community I can say I was never really knew much about racism as we all just tried to make a living and get along with each other. Going in the service in 1972 and after the problems that arose at Travis AFB I got a very quick enlightening as to what it really was and looking back growing up I guess you could say it was there, but just wasn't throw in our faces so to speak. Long story short until we as a society can stop referring to each other by race, color, creed, etc. racism of some sort will always be there in my opinion. We are all gods people whether we are of different color of skin so as I would fight and make-up with a brother or sister I have a hard time excepting it shouldn't or couldn't be this way today with all people. Just my opinion, but when the media makes a point to point out a race, color, creed, etc it has a sticking point with some folks whether they be white, black, green, purple, etc. If a cop shots an unarmed person it shouldn't matter what color they are it should not be excepted unless justified. Again just an old back woods guy who really has a hard time understanding why all the hatred on all sides.
 
It's weird how some colleges get blamed for the actions of a few, but others do not.

Virginia Tech had a student fire shots on campus and kill dozens of people. There is credible evidence that Va Tech should have known he was a threat in advance and done something about him, but they did not. And yet, VaTech was still received massive sympathy. Also, Texas a&m was directly responsible for building an unsafe bonfire and they killed 12 people, but everyone felt sorry for them.

Baylor basketball suffered a terrible tragedy 12 years ago. The actions of 1 lone individual were held against the entire school, and that was completely unfair. I do not believe for one second this one handful of drunk frat morons represent the University of Oklahoma as a whole. So it would be really unfair for other schools to use this against OU.

TC
 
I don't buy it. He's gotten a lot of big offers lately and probably wants to take some official vacations to these campuses and be catered to.

With him tying his decommit to this, I don't want him and I'm sure OU doesn't anymore either.

On the OU SAE thing: I'm very disappointed in my alma mater, whom I hold a higher standard to. I don't care if musicians rap with that word or it goes on at other campuses; I don't want OU associated with racism[/QUOTE]

It's not the same thing... I'm so sick of people using "Rap music" as a way to get away with things... I don't follow OU football recruiting, but as a black man I would want my kid to think twice about where he's heading for possible 4years... As bad as this is it's also not cool to see people throwing this kid under the bus...
 
I don't buy it. He's gotten a lot of big offers lately and probably wants to take some official vacations to these campuses and be catered to.

With him tying his decommit to this, I don't want him and I'm sure OU doesn't anymore either.

On the OU SAE thing: I'm very disappointed in my alma mater, whom I hold a higher standard to. I don't care if musicians rap with that word or it goes on at other campuses; I don't want OU associated with racism

Badger...can't agree with your statement. I don't know the background of the student-athlete who de-committed (and I doubt if you do as well). But one shouldn't throw him under the bus because he chooses to take a stand against racism (not OU). It's unfortunate that we lose a recruit, but we should give him benefit of doubt that the reason is exactly what he has stated. Don't hate on a kid that has the wherewithal to take a stand against racism. It surely took much thought, sacrifice and faith in his beliefs against racism to make that decision. Furthermore, we don't know if he (or family members/someone close to him) has experienced racism. Let's give him benefit of doubt...for the cause.
 
Badger...can't agree with your statement. I don't know the background of the student-athlete who de-committed (and I doubt if you do as well). But one shouldn't throw him under the bus because he chooses to take a stand against racism (not OU). It's unfortunate that we lose a recruit, but we should give him benefit of doubt that the reason is exactly what he has stated. Don't hate on a kid that has the wherewithal to take a stand against racism. It surely took much thought, sacrifice and faith in his beliefs against racism to make that decision. Furthermore, we don't know if he (or family members/someone close to him) has experienced racism. Let's give him benefit of doubt...for the cause.

Good on him if he is taking a stand, but ok if he isn't and where has it been reported that he said this was his reason?

Finally, anyone surprised by the SAE video has not been paying attention. Racism is alive and well at OU as well as the rest of the state and country for that matter.
 
It didn't effect A Hardy who just committed. Most recruits know that no matter where they go. Its the same. Always going to have those people. I do believe its getting less and less as time goes on.
 
Individuals react differently to racial issues and the recruit Delance took the action he felt manifested his feeling. But OU will get over this.

I am sicked that OU has to be associated with the incident but it did happen in Norman. I do wish when the national media addresses the issue they would focus on the fraternity and individuals that incented and performed these actions and would also speak more positively about the actions Boren and the university took.

One needs to not forget the due process associated with free speach regardless how deplorable it may be makes Boren's actions very bold and most probably some damn fool or organization will file suit for the violation of the student's right to free speech.

You cannot undo the incident but to date OU, the OU students and student organizations have taken the appropriate actions with the fraternity, its members, the black chef that worked at SAE and their house mother.

Look for the positives. Focus on the corrective actions taken. Minimize the stupidity of a few individuals. DON'T DWELL ON THE NEGATIVE.
 
For JDelance (the recruit) to de-commit, I believed it would have to be for very personal reasons; that he had experienced racism from a personal perspective and it appears that is the case.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/r...rs-recruit-jean-delance-explains-decommitment

Therefore, I get it and understand why he made the decision about something that is very important to him...where he will spend his college years and develop friends for life and memories. It's one thing to "assume and expect" these things are happening on OU's campus, but when a few open their mouths and remove all doubt...none the less in front of a camera (and one must know cameras are everywhere)...then we can expect what we've seen and JDelance has decided it's not worth the risk for him.

At the same time...
1. Racism is alive and most everywhere.
2. Where ever he decides to attend school, it will be there as well.
3. Yes, we've made some strides for improvement, but not nearly enough.
4. Let's hope OU takes these lemons and makes the best possible lemonade...and I believe President Boren has squeezed some lemons to start the process.

Furthermore...lawsuits regarding "free speech"...good luck with that. I'm sure those students and/or their parents signed away their rights to "free speech" when they agreed to become students and members of the SAE based on behavior, doing things that bring a negative light on the university, etc. It may not stop an attorney that wants to stir the pot...but again, good luck with that. OU's attorneys are surely ready and already prepared. Boren SURELY was briefed which is why he has never identified who the expelled are, yet the media has already reported it and some of the parents have given statements.

Finally...unfortunate. Just unfortunate, but I'm glad they were exposed. Let it be a lesson to everyone to check your behaviors.
 
Sometimes people say things to make fun of other people without really thinking. It starts as kids. My son was burned when he was young. Kids in school made fun of him due to the scars he had. Consequently, he hated school. Teachers tried to control it but with limited success. People make fun of fat people. Of course the offenders know it's wrong but to show out or forever dumb reason, they do it. They make fun of people who have deformities. They make fun of nerds, etc, etc.

I make these analogies to say, I don't necessarily believe all of those people on the bus singing those horrible songs are racists, but I do think all who sang the songs are idiots, just as people who make fun of other people for any reason are idiots. Idiots are in every city of every state.
 
Furthermore...lawsuits regarding "free speech"...good luck with that. I'm sure those students and/or their parents signed away their rights to "free speech" when they agreed to become students and members of the SAE based on behavior, doing things that bring a negative light on the university, etc. It may not stop an attorney that wants to stir the pot...but again, good luck with that. OU's attorneys are surely ready and already prepared. Boren SURELY was briefed which is why he has never identified who the expelled are, yet the media has already reported it and some of the parents have given statements.

My first thought was Boren did not do this without consulting attorneys. He was an attorney. We all know he was elected governor in 1974 and from there was a Senator until 2000? He also is smart and does not appear to be mentally lazy. He had the black community's vote in OKC when he ran for office and I would guess maybe Tulsa's also. Thus, he has been involved in racial issues to some degree by engaging the black community and in holding office. He has also been at the university for 14 years or so, thus believe he would know issues that would be involved in this matter. However, looking online it seems most first amendment scholars say expelling the two students probably violated the first amendment. The following is a quote from an article online: The university president wrote that the students are being expelled for “your leadership role in leading a racist and exclusionary chant which has created a hostile educational environment for others.” (I added the bold.) So this bolded language Boren is using to say their actions fell within an exception to the first amendment, but supposedly this exception hasn't been clarified by the Supreme Court. Personally, and am not a constitutional scholar, I don't think the students' chants fall under the exception. Also, if the university were to win on the first amendment issue then they still did not afford the students due process. It appears they were entitled to a hearing before being expelled.

As far as the students signing away their rights to free speech, that would only be in regards to the fraternity not the university.

The university owns the SAE structure but I would question whether Boren could make them move out that quickly even though the members had all been suspended by the national SAE.

If you are the students and the parents, do you sue? I mean lawsuits are not fun and this one would be especially unpleasant. Do they just get an attorney and negotiate a settlement from the university without filing a suit? I am baffled by how Boren has handled the legalities of this situation. I also wonder what attorneys advised him......some on staff? some constitutional experts?
 
My first thought was Boren did not do this without consulting attorneys. He was an attorney. We all know he was elected governor in 1974 and from there was a Senator until 2000? He also is smart and does not appear to be mentally lazy. He had the black community's vote in OKC when he ran for office and I would guess maybe Tulsa's also. Thus, he has been involved in racial issues to some degree by engaging the black community and in holding office. He has also been at the university for 14 years or so, thus believe he would know issues that would be involved in this matter. However, looking online it seems most first amendment scholars say expelling the two students probably violated the first amendment. The following is a quote from an article online: The university president wrote that the students are being expelled for “your leadership role in leading a racist and exclusionary chant which has created a hostile educational environment for others.” (I added the bold.) So this bolded language Boren is using to say their actions fell within an exception to the first amendment, but supposedly this exception hasn't been clarified by the Supreme Court. Personally, and am not a constitutional scholar, I don't think the students' chants fall under the exception. Also, if the university were to win on the first amendment issue then they still did not afford the students due process. It appears they were entitled to a hearing before being expelled.

As far as the students signing away their rights to free speech, that would only be in regards to the fraternity not the university.

The university owns the SAE structure but I would question whether Boren could make them move out that quickly even though the members had all been suspended by the national SAE.

If you are the students and the parents, do you sue? I mean lawsuits are not fun and this one would be especially unpleasant. Do they just get an attorney and negotiate a settlement from the university without filing a suit? I am baffled by how Boren has handled the legalities of this situation. I also wonder what attorneys advised him......some on staff? some constitutional experts?

I can't imagine the universities' attorneys did not huddle with Pres Boren like a hoops team up by one, 3 seconds on the clock and the opponent has the ball out under their basket in an NBA final championship game #7! And they made the best plan possible to "defend" the universities' interest. And maybe, just maybe they had to pick their poison and take the path less deadly.

Food for thought...
1. I haven't seen an OU student admission agreement form of late, but if there is not a clause stating that a student is subject to expulsion for certain behaviors, deemed inappropriate by the university...then I'd be very surprised. If it was not in the document, it is now for moving forward.

2. Based on the litigious society we live and many who do not take responsibility for their actions and just walk away, SETTLING for a valuable lesson learned...I would not be surprised if parents and students do not request a settlement for their "inconvenience" of having to move, receive incomplete grades...amongst other consequences and repercussions... and TRY to find another school (good luck with that).

3. The university attorneys and Pres Boren may have concluded that the university will have to take some responsibility (fiscally) because of what "their students" did and realize it will cost them something, but nothing compared to the cost of not taking immediate action and expelling them.

4. News reports state that protesters were marching outside the home of one of the student's parents, stating their was no one home and not likely to return soon. Maybe they should have stayed put and brought their son right out to the front yard and made him sit and listen. Tough love is priceless.

5. It happens everyday, everywhere...prejudice and racist acts. There are those who are caught and those who get away for the moment. Hopefully the consequences and repercussions facing these two students will cause others to stop and check themselves and ask, "Is it worth the potential humiliation to myself, my family and friends, my job/education/career/ability to earn a wage and self worth?"

6. Is this affecting/costing the university? Absolutely, but again...they need to keep making lemonade, lemon pie, lemon smoothies...take every negative and make a positive. Relative to sports/this forum...yes a recruit has de-committed, but how many other recruits have simply marked OU off the list and we'll never hear about it?

Kudos to Pres Boren for doing the right thing expeditiously...even when it might cost a few dollars to the university. I'm sure other "idiots" (some have referred to them as such...and I agree...the epitome of idiots) will continue to have their prejudiced mentality, but they will think twice (maybe) before acting it out. Then again...as long as MINORS have access to alcohol we will always see true beliefs acted out. Just blame it on the alcohol...
 
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