OT: But Not Really...SAE Issue Affecting Recruiting

[Soonerbay]

Here is the link to the OU student code of conduct. I don't have the time right now to research, but I'm sure there is something included to prohibit what took place. If not...again, there will by amendments to the student code of conduct coming soon to a university near you.

http://studentconduct.ou.edu/

 

[badger]

With him tying his decommit to this, I don't want him and I'm sure OU doesn't anymore either.

Badger...can't agree with your statement

Here's why I wrote that: Unless he plans to go to Grambling (assuming that poor football program got back on its feet after last season's issues) he shouldn't be going on and on via national TV, sites like Bleacher Report and the like, then commit to a school that has also had their own issues with racism in the not-so-distant past.

If he ends up at Ole Miss or Mississippi State, uggggggggggghhhhh

 

[Soonerbay]

Here's why I wrote that: Unless he plans to go to Grambling (assuming that poor football program got back on its feet after last season's issues) he shouldn't be going on and on via national TV, sites like Bleacher Report and the like, then commit to a school that has also had their own issues with racism in the not-so-distant past.

If he ends up at Ole Miss or Mississippi State, uggggggggggghhhhh

Let's just wait and see before we throw him under the bus. What if he is reconciled to the thought that he appreciated the way OU powers have handled it? Unless someone has been living under two rocks...then they are aware that racism is everywhere. One doesn't have to go to Ole Miss to experience it. It's even in...Norman, OK. But it isn't the city or the university, but instead, SOME of the people. What better reconciliation and learning opportunity for us all if he decides he wants to stick with OU? I personally would love to see that. It would speak volumes regarding awareness and reconciliation to the recruit, his family, Coach Stoops and all concerned.

 

[mikeareese]

I looked at twitter. The only one that tweeted was the girl from Collinsville. Said she was hurting from the video. Then on a post from a guy on rivals that stated a black gymnast was thinking of not coming to OU. If you read football boards. Everyone knew Delance would decommit sooner or later. He just took advantage of the video.

 

[womenssports]

I can't imagine the universities' attorneys did not huddle with Pres Boren like a hoops team up by one, 3 seconds on the clock and the opponent has the ball out under their basket in an NBA final championship game #7! And they made the best plan possible to "defend" the universities' interest. And maybe, just maybe they had to pick their poison and take the path less deadly.

Food for thought...
1. I haven't seen an OU student admission agreement form of late, but if there is not a clause stating that a student is subject to expulsion for certain behaviors, deemed inappropriate by the university...then I'd be very surprised. If it was not in the document, it is now for moving forward.

2. Based on the litigious society we live and many who do not take responsibility for their actions and just walk away, SETTLING for a valuable lesson learned...I would not be surprised if parents and students do not request a settlement for their "inconvenience" of having to move, receive incomplete grades...amongst other consequences and repercussions... and TRY to find another school (good luck with that).

3. The university attorneys and Pres Boren may have concluded that the university will have to take some responsibility (fiscally) because of what "their students" did and realize it will cost them something, but nothing compared to the cost of not taking immediate action and expelling them.

4. News reports state that protesters were marching outside the home of one of the student's parents, stating their was no one home and not likely to return soon. Maybe they should have stayed put and brought their son right out to the front yard and made him sit and listen. Tough love is priceless.

5. It happens everyday, everywhere...prejudice and racist acts. There are those who are caught and those who get away for the moment. Hopefully the consequences and repercussions facing these two students will cause others to stop and check themselves and ask, "Is it worth the potential humiliation to myself, my family and friends, my job/education/career/ability to earn a wage and self worth?"

6. Is this affecting/costing the university? Absolutely, but again...they need to keep making lemonade, lemon pie, lemon smoothies...take every negative and make a positive. Relative to sports/this forum...yes a recruit has de-committed, but how many other recruits have simply marked OU off the list and we'll never hear about it?

Kudos to Pres Boren for doing the right thing expeditiously...even when it might cost a few dollars to the university. I'm sure other "idiots" (some have referred to them as such...and I agree...the epitome of idiots) will continue to have their prejudiced mentality, but they will think twice (maybe) before acting it out. Then again...as long as MINORS have access to alcohol we will always see true beliefs acted out. Just blame it on the alcohol...

I was not criticizing anyone but just responding to the fact that your post said you didn't think there was a basis for a lawsuit regarding free speech. I had also been thinking of the issue. Surprisingly to me, it was not my first thought but came the day after Boren's speech. It surprises me because I always try to look at all sides of issues, not because of how I believe but to understand and also buttress any argument I may have. I read your post after I had done some research online about the first amendment in this particular situation and that was the impetus for my response. I was basically just giving my not expert opinion on whether I thought the 2 expelled students actually had viable legal claims.

Also, was speculating...thinking out loud...about Boren and his legal advisors. I am just very curious as to what went on behind the scenes with Boren and others involved.

As far as a code of conduct (my words), it still cannot infringe upon a person's first amendment rights. AND, the chant was ignorant and racist and the people who chanted it were being ignorant and racist and I hate it. I am NOT condoning their behavior in anyway. I have been confrontational with individuals who were being racist on more than one occassion in person and on social internet sites, but I was doing it as an individual and did not have the power to infringe upon their first amendment rights. Will add that my confrontational behavior has never been the correct way to address people in person or online and that is on me.

This topic is too complex to be addressed adequately on a social internet site. I know for me it is. The legal part can be addressed more specifically but even that can get convoluted.

And not that you need my approval or validation, but I think you may be right that they knew they might be setting themselves up for a lawsuit but decided it was worth it.

 

[sybarite]

I will make a simplistic response to a very complex situation. If you follow the logic of some constitutional scholars like Volokh, OU would lose a suit on freedom of speech violation. Noah Feldman, another constitutional scholar suggests that since Boren framed his response as responding to the creation of a hostile environment, his actions fall within his authority, an issue often used in Title IX suits. In such a case, OU wins. It depends on who defines the playing field, which court they reach, and probably which jurist.

But, the reality is that none of the parties involved thus far are likely to want to extend their embarrassment further by participating in a law suit. The best that might happen to you is that you win a suit by becoming one of the most despised people in the US.

 

[Soonerbay]

Not surprising...lawsuit discussions begin...sue the university, President Boren and heaven knows who else!
http://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/13/ou-sae-to-sue-university-possibly-president-boren/21153040/

 

[YCN]

Terrific article about this at ESPN written by Jason Whitlock, who has been writing for the KC Star for a long time, and a shorter time at ESPN.

I totally agree with his assessment. This isn't all about SAE, or even white racism...

America's race-relations regression

 

[Soonerbay]

Terrific article about this at ESPN written by Jason Whitlock, who has been writing for the KC Star for a long time, and a shorter time at ESPN.

I totally agree with his assessment. This isn't all about SAE, or even white racism...

America's race-relations regression

+1...agree, agree! This instance just happens to be one in a million...or more!

 

[sybarite]

At this point, the national media has actually taken OU's side by demonstrating that this has happened at numerous universities with even other fraternities. It is not specific to OU, and they have met Boren's actions with approval. They have even shown the diverse nature of the demonstrations.

About the last thing that OU needs right now if for a chapter that is no longer even recognized by its national organization to keep this on the front page. They did something that did expose what we all knew, that racism is alive and well. That is a positive. It is also a positive how Boren handled it.

 

[womenssports]

It isn't about OU nor even more specifically the SAE's on the bus that were chanting BUT it is about institutionalized racism by whites in the U.S. Also, about the fact that after Obama was elected it seemed to give a license to people to be openly racist and people became racists who probably hadn't been. internet, talk radio, 24 hour cable news, social sites, all contribute to the hate and racism with lies told as facts, with people giving validity to the written and spoken word of news commentators....the three major stations do just a little better job of reporting news and not making it up or telling you what to to think, but not much. The following link has a great video by a UCLA student doing a type of slam poetry plus the entire article is very good.

http://thinkprogress.org/sports/201...ma-sports-contribute-racism-college-campuses/

 

[tycat947]

It isn't about OU nor even more specifically the SAE's on the bus that were chanting BUT it is about institutionalized racism by whites in the U.S. Also, about the fact that after Obama was elected it seemed to give a license to people to be openly racist and people became racists who probably hadn't been. internet, talk radio, 24 hour cable news, social sites, all contribute to the hate and racism with lies told as facts, with people giving validity to the written and spoken word of news commentators....the three major stations do just a little better job of reporting news and not making it up or telling you what to to think, but not much. The following link has a great video by a UCLA student doing a type of slam poetry plus the entire article is very good.

http://thinkprogress.org/sports/201...ma-sports-contribute-racism-college-campuses/

+1!

 

[SoonerNorm]

It isn't about OU nor even more specifically the SAE's on the bus that were chanting BUT it is about institutionalized racism by whites in the U.S. Also, about the fact that after Obama was elected it seemed to give a license to people to be openly racist and people became racists who probably hadn't been. internet, talk radio, 24 hour cable news, social sites, all contribute to the hate and racism with lies told as facts, with people giving validity to the written and spoken word of news commentators....the three major stations do just a little better job of reporting news and not making it up or telling you what to to think, but not much. The following link has a great video by a UCLA student doing a type of slam poetry plus the entire article is very good.

http://thinkprogress.org/sports/201...ma-sports-contribute-racism-college-campuses/

Whites aren't the only ones guilty of being racist.

 

[sybarite]

It isn't about OU nor even more specifically the SAE's on the bus that were chanting BUT it is about institutionalized racism by whites in the U.S. Also, about the fact that after Obama was elected it seemed to give a license to people to be openly racist and people became racists who probably hadn't been. internet, talk radio, 24 hour cable news, social sites, all contribute to the hate and racism with lies told as facts, with people giving validity to the written and spoken word of news commentators....the three major stations do just a little better job of reporting news and not making it up or telling you what to to think, but not much. The following link has a great video by a UCLA student doing a type of slam poetry plus the entire article is very good.

http://thinkprogress.org/sports/201...ma-sports-contribute-racism-college-campuses/

+2