Pack is good to go.

I wouldn't consider the football team a title contender, but the defense was elite last year, and if Mateer were to be the second coming of Baker, there's a world where we compete for it.

Nijel Pack could win the Naismith and I still don't see a title happening in basketball. It's Moser's most talented group by far, but the talent is closer to the middle of our conference than the top.
Elite? They were barely top 20 in defense last year. That's good, but not close to elite. Elite defenses don't give up a ton of big plays and blow multiple second half leads.
 
Elite? They were barely top 20 in defense last year. That's good, but not close to elite. Elite defenses don't give up a ton of big plays and blow multiple second half leads.
Pair that defense with a semi-capable offense and numbers would say otherwise.

You can’t continually put them in bad spots because your offense is historic-level bad and can’t sustain drives or turns the ball over on its own end constantly.
 
Pair that defense with a semi-capable offense and numbers would say otherwise.

You can’t continually put them in bad spots because your offense is historic-level bad and can’t sustain drives or turns the ball over on its own end constantly.
I cited games where we had the lead in the second half. Was the defense in a bad spot when Mizzou had to drive the length of the field on the final possession? Was it in a bad spot up 14 against Navy, a team that usually can't play from behind because of their style of play?

I can't even fathom anyone using the word elite to describe a defense that wasn't even top 10 nationally. OU fans should know what elite is. For years under Riley, we had awful defenses -- talk about putting the other side of the ball in a bad spot. Our offense took the field under a ton of pressure every time they got the ball, knowing they pretty much had to score every possession to have a chance to win against decent teams. And what did they do? Put up historically great seasons. THAT is elite. Finishing in the 15-20 range nationally on defense is a massive improvement. Elite? Nah.
 
I cited games where we had the lead in the second half. Was the defense in a bad spot when Mizzou had to drive the length of the field on the final possession? Was it in a bad spot up 14 against Navy, a team that usually can't play from behind because of their style of play?

I can't even fathom anyone using the word elite to describe a defense that wasn't even top 10 nationally. OU fans should know what elite is. For years under Riley, we had awful defenses -- talk about putting the other side of the ball in a bad spot. Our offense took the field under a ton of pressure every time they got the ball, knowing they pretty much had to score every possession to have a chance to win against decent teams. And what did they do? Put up historically great seasons. THAT is elite. Finishing in the 15-20 range nationally on defense is a massive improvement. Elite? Nah.
We don't deserve you, Wichi!
 
Elite? They were barely top 20 in defense last year. That's good, but not close to elite. Elite defenses don't give up a ton of big plays and blow multiple second half leads.
You have to view it in the correct context. This was the worst offense since the Blake days.. the D gave up a lot of empty yards, short TD drive points, and were gassed continually. Top 20 with worst offense in my (almost) lifetime = elite and performed much better than top 20.

Just like when our Riley offenses were out of this world.. the D ratings were always really really really bad. But they weren't the true measure either then
 
I cited games where we had the lead in the second half. Was the defense in a bad spot when Mizzou had to drive the length of the field on the final possession? Was it in a bad spot up 14 against Navy, a team that usually can't play from behind because of their style of play?

I can't even fathom anyone using the word elite to describe a defense that wasn't even top 10 nationally. OU fans should know what elite is. For years under Riley, we had awful defenses -- talk about putting the other side of the ball in a bad spot. Our offense took the field under a ton of pressure every time they got the ball, knowing they pretty much had to score every possession to have a chance to win against decent teams. And what did they do? Put up historically great seasons. THAT is elite. Finishing in the 15-20 range nationally on defense is a massive improvement. Elite? Nah.
Sure.. but you're just wrong. Defense was always gassed, and navy, hardly anyone gave a crap about the bowl game, except for service academies ironically

We def have a top 10 defense last year imo. Go and compare all of the top 20 Ds from last year and tell me where their Os fell in ranking. Guess which one will be the worst of those 20? By a lot...
 
Sure.. but you're just wrong. Defense was always gassed, and navy, hardly anyone gave a crap about the bowl game, except for service academies ironically

We def have a top 10 defense last year imo. Go and compare all of the top 20 Ds from last year and tell me where their Os fell in ranking. Guess which one will be the worst of those 20? By a lot...
I just will agree to disagree. Again, not saying our defense was bad by any means. I can’t stand Brent and think he is an awful head coach but I give him credit for fixing the defense. But it’s not elite yet. I agree that short TD drives can’t be held against them. But big plays due to busted assignments? That’s absolutely on them. Even Teddy talked weekly on the pod about how they allowed too many big plays. If you scroll through last year’s team defensive rankings, you’ll be hard pressed to find any where we are top 10. Many aren’t even top 20. You can’t simply blame all of that on the offense.
 
I cited games where we had the lead in the second half. Was the defense in a bad spot when Mizzou had to drive the length of the field on the final possession? Was it in a bad spot up 14 against Navy, a team that usually can't play from behind because of their style of play?

This is classic of you to cite a meaningless bowl game that most of our key players were sitting out. The other game you cited the offense simply needed to net +17 points and we win. The game winning touchdown was a fumble return by their defense, so I personally don't blame the defense for that.

Meanwhile you neglect to mention the game where our defense single handedly outscored Alabama's offense to knock them out of the playoffs. Or the game winning interception against Auburn. Or the time our defense went into Knoxville and dominated their playoff offense, but our offense couldn't convert despite starting in scoring position multiple times.

Our defense has improved every year, and as much as I love Stutsman and Bowman, I don't foresee two 4th rounders derailing the trajectory of our defense. Retain the previous year's offense with Lebby and Gabriel, who I don't think are anywhere near our ceiling, and this team would have been in contention.
 
This is classic of you to cite a meaningless bowl game that most of our key players were sitting out. The other game you cited the offense simply needed to net +17 points and we win. The game winning touchdown was a fumble return by their defense, so I personally don't blame the defense for that.

Meanwhile you neglect to mention the game where our defense single handedly outscored Alabama's offense to knock them out of the playoffs. Or the game winning interception against Auburn. Or the time our defense went into Knoxville and dominated their playoff offense, but our offense couldn't convert despite starting in scoring position multiple times.

Our defense has improved every year, and as much as I love Stutsman and Bowman, I don't foresee two 4th rounders derailing the trajectory of our defense. Retain the previous year's offense with Lebby and Gabriel, who I don't think are anywhere near our ceiling, and this team would have been in contention.

All of that stuff can be true and last year’s defense was still not elite. All Wichita said is that the defense wasn’t elite. I completely agree and I assume Brent Venables would too.
 
If you scroll through last year’s team defensive rankings, you’ll be hard pressed to find any where we are top 10.

If you're stuck in the 90s and want to only use stats that don't factor competition level, number of possessions, field position, etc, then sure. But for those of us that have computers, it's not hard.

We ranked 7th in yards per play against top 25 teams. And if you exclude teams that only played one game (Texas State, Northern Illinois, Old Dominion) and obviously weren't better, we jump up to #4.

In 2021, we ranked 60th, and we never finished top 25 in the Lincoln Riley era for that stat.
 
This is classic of you to cite a meaningless bowl game that most of our key players were sitting out. The other game you cited the offense simply needed to net +17 points and we win. The game winning touchdown was a fumble return by their defense, so I personally don't blame the defense for that.

Meanwhile you neglect to mention the game where our defense single handedly outscored Alabama's offense to knock them out of the playoffs. Or the game winning interception against Auburn. Or the time our defense went into Knoxville and dominated their playoff offense, but our offense couldn't convert despite starting in scoring position multiple times.

Our defense has improved every year, and as much as I love Stutsman and Bowman, I don't foresee two 4th rounders derailing the trajectory of our defense. Retain the previous year's offense with Lebby and Gabriel, who I don't think are anywhere near our ceiling, and this team would have been in contention.
So let’s see, we played well against Bama (yes), got a big interception against a bad Auburn team that was unsettled at QB, held Tennessee in check (at home, not on the road) in a game where they got extremely conservative, partially because our defense was playing well and partially because they knew they didn’t need to score in the second half. I’m not sure how much more clear I can make it. Our defense was good. Some games, very good. Elite defenses are very good to great dang near very week. Some of the Bama teams really struggled offensively. The SEC as a whole didn’t generally have many good QBs till the last few years. People would talk about how it was almost a different sport than what the Big 12 was playing. But even when they had bad offenses, they had teams in the title hunt because their defenses absolutely dominated.

As for the two guys drafted, that stands out to me for a couple reasons. One, we only had two guys drafted from the supposedly elite defense. And two, neither one was recruited by Brent. Would be nice to see some of the guys we’ve heard hyped up for the past two or three years turn their potential into actual play on the field. I mean, if I had a dime for every time one heard how great PJ looks, I’d have enough money to pay Brent’s ridiculous buyout myself.
 
So let’s see, we played well against Bama (yes), got a big interception against a bad Auburn team that was unsettled at QB, held Tennessee in check (at home, not on the road) in a game where they got extremely conservative, partially because our defense was playing well and partially because they knew they didn’t need to score in the second half. I’m not sure how much more clear I can make it. Our defense was good. Some games, very good. Elite defenses are very good to great dang near very week. Some of the Bama teams really struggled offensively. The SEC as a whole didn’t generally have many good QBs till the last few years. People would talk about how it was almost a different sport than what the Big 12 was playing. But even when they had bad offenses, they had teams in the title hunt because their defenses absolutely dominated.

As for the two guys drafted, that stands out to me for a couple reasons. One, we only had two guys drafted from the supposedly elite defense. And two, neither one was recruited by Brent. Would be nice to see some of the guys we’ve heard hyped up for the past two or three years turn their potential into actual play on the field. I mean, if I had a dime for every time one heard how great PJ looks, I’d have enough money to pay Brent’s ridiculous buyout myself.

Nobody said OU had one of the best defenses of all time. Just one of the best last year. I'll admit that our defense wasn't as good as the one that spurred on the greatest dynasty in modern major sports. We also weren't as good as the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, or 2002 Bucs either.

Alabama gave up 40 points to Vanderbilt this year. Georgia gave up 41 points to the team that our defense outscored. Nobody holds teams under 14 points every week anymore.
 
And are you really complaining about guys that aren't even draft-eligible not getting drafted? You do know how this works, right?
 
I don't think last year was an elite defense but I think it was very very good.

WS is just someone that will never be happy as a fan...it is as easy as that
 
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