Please Explain

[greenbug]

...the fascination with Lon Kruger. I haven't really studied his resume but his teams don't seem to be all that great. I know that we're not gonna get a huge name coach if Cape is fired but what about these guys:
(in no particular order) Dave Rose-BYU, Bill Carmody-Northwestern, Gregg Marshall-Wichita State, and BCG has already been discussed at length.

 

[playmakr]

This doesn't totally tie in to your question, but this post relates to why I would give Capel another year.

I simply don't feel Joe C is going to be able to find anyone much better at this point for two reasons. One, OU can't be as attractive of a gig as we have been in the past. Secondly, I don't see many names out there I consider some big jump in coaching ability and pedigree. Gillespie is one I would consider an upgrade based on his teams, but I wonder if Boren would sign off on that hire. I also don't consider it a huge upgrade to begin with, but that's a whole other discussion.

Playing devil's advocate with my point, if you do feel you have the right guy, you have to at least attempt to find someone who you think has the potential to be better and not worry about keeping a recruiting class, keeping current guys on the team, or money.

 

[Max Power]

This doesn't totally tie in to your question, but this post relates to why I would give Capel another year.

I simply don't feel Joe C is going to be able to find anyone much better at this point for two reasons. One, OU can't be as attractive of a gig as we have been in the past. Secondly, I don't see many names out there I consider some big jump in coaching ability and pedigree. Gillespie is one I would consider an upgrade based on his teams, but I wonder if Boren would sign off on that hire. I also don't consider it a huge upgrade to begin with, but that's a whole other discussion.

Playing devil's advocate with my point, if you do feel you have the right guy, you have to at least attempt to find someone who you think has the potential to be better and not worry about keeping a recruiting class, keeping current guys on the team, or money.

I am with you. I would like too see Capel gone, but IF AND ONLY IF we can get someone proven. If we are going to reach like we did 5 years ago he needs to stay.

 

[daqman]

I am with you. I would like too see Capel gone, but IF AND ONLY IF we can get someone proven. If we are going to reach like we did 5 years ago he needs to stay.

So let me get this straight.
You would rather keep a proven loser than take a chance on a new coach?
You really think it can get worse? That Joe C. will get it wrong again?

 

[SoonerTraveler]

I have never found Lon Kruger to be fascinating.

Some of us remember Lon Kruger from his 4-years as head coach at Kansas State (1986-87 thru 1989-90). He took K-State to the NCAA Tournament all 4 years, and made the Elite-8 in 1988 (losing to KU the same year Billy and the Boys lost in the National Finals to KU).

Kruger never seems to stay any one place very long. This strategy does seem to extend the coaching career of some coaches. They switch jobs before anyone has a chance to fire them.

Over 25 years as a head coach at 5 different schools, Kruger has a record of 478-302 (.613) and has been to the Big Dance 13 times.

:OUbball-logo:

 

[greenbug]

I have never found Lon Kruger to be fascinating.

Some of us remember Lon Kruger from his 4-years as head coach at Kansas State (1986-87 thru 1989-90). He took K-State to the NCAA Tournament all 4 years, and made the Elite-8 in 1988 (losing to KU the same year Billy and the Boys lost in the National Finals to KU).

Kruger never seems to stay any one place very long. This strategy does seem to extend the coaching career of some coaches. They switch jobs before anyone has a chance to fire them.

Over 25 years as a head coach at 5 different schools, Kruger has a record of 478-302 (.613) and has been to the Big Dance 13 times.

:OUbball-logo:

Not impressive at all. I wonder why people even mention him.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

I am with you. I would like too see Capel gone, but IF AND ONLY IF we can get someone proven. If we are going to reach like we did 5 years ago he needs to stay.

This is probably a long shot, but I hope that Joe is working tonight to get that "proven" coach as Capel's replacement.

I just do not know who that might be. I did not know of Billy Tubbs back in 1980, nor did I know of Kelvin Sampson back in 1994. Both guys "proved" to be pretty good!

:OUbball-logo:

 

[Sooner23]

I'm fascinated by his unibrow.

 

[WTSooner]

Hate to say it, but I think Gillispie might have been our one shot at getting an experienced coach that was definitely better than Capel. Any other options at this point are probably going to be a big unproven.

 

[greenbug]

Dave Rose's resume is super impressive but I believe he is a mormon and may want to stay at BYU. He did a tremendous turnaround there and he did it in his first year I believe.
Bill Carmody at Northwestern has been considered by some as the most inovative offensive coach. My point is, I think that there's guys out there that are not big names but that can turn this thing around.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

Dave Rose's resume is super impressive but I believe he is a mormon and may want to stay at BYU. He did a tremendous turnaround there and he did it in his first year I believe.
Bill Carmody at Northwestern has been considered by some as the most inovative offensive coach. My point is, I think that there's guys out there that are not big names but that can turn this thing around.

Agree 100%.

:OUbball-logo:

 

[Sid]

I have never found Lon Kruger to be fascinating.

Some of us remember Lon Kruger from his 4-years as head coach at Kansas State (1986-87 thru 1989-90). He took K-State to the NCAA Tournament all 4 years, and made the Elite-8 in 1988 (losing to KU the same year Billy and the Boys lost in the National Finals to KU).:OUbball-logo:

Heck, I didn't like LK when he played at Kansas State.

 

[StatGeek]

Not impressive at all. I wonder why people even mention him.

you have to look at what shape the programs he took over looked like, for example....

He started @ Texas Pan AM and inherited a 5-20 team. 4 yrs later they were 20-8 and he was off to K-State.

At K-State he inherited a 16-14 squad and his success there has already been discussed.

Next he went to Florida where the Gators were coming off a 7-21 campaign. He had mixed success at UF but his best season was 29-8.

After Florida he moved on to Illinois where the Illini were coming off an 18-11 season. Kruger led them to 3-20+ win seasons.

5yrs later he took over UNLV fresh off a 18-13 season, and over the last 5yrs the Rebels have averaged 25.4 wins per season.

Does this look a little more appetizing?

 

[Max Power]

So let me get this straight.
You would rather keep a proven loser than take a chance on a new coach?
You really think it can get worse? That Joe C. will get it wrong again?

5 years ago are program was in a position were we could take a reach. Now if we do and he fails like Capel has, with No Blake Griffin in sight then we will be in even worse shape when we try to replace the new guy. At that point it will prolly be 8-20 years since Sampson, 6-8 since Blake, and even guys like Billy Clyde who are out of the game wont sniff OU. It has a chance of completely ruining our program for the next 10+ years if we reach and strike out again

 

[daqman]

5 years ago are program was in a position were we could take a reach. Now if we do and he fails like Capel has, with No Blake Griffin in sight then we will be in even worse shape when we try to replace the new guy. At that point it will prolly be 8-20 years since Sampson, 6-8 since Blake, and even guys like Billy Clyde who are out of the game wont sniff OU. It has a chance of completely ruining our program for the next 10+ years if we reach and strike out again

If Joe doesn't make a move, we've already struck out.
Capel says he needs better players. But he can't seem to get them.
If he stays, the program is ruined.
I'm confident Joe sees that and will make the right decision.

 

[Max Power]

If Joe doesn't make a move, we've already struck out.
Capel says he needs better players. But he can't seem to get them.
If he stays, the program is ruined.
I'm confident Joe sees that and will make the right decision.

I see what you are saying, and i do agree to an extent. I just dont want to reach again when there are good coaches out there. In an ideal situation, joe c opens the checkbook and pays good money for a good proven, BCS conference coach.

 

[sys]

Dave Rose's resume is super impressive but I believe he is a mormon and may want to stay at BYU. He did a tremendous turnaround there and he did it in his first year I believe.
Bill Carmody at Northwestern has been considered by some as the most inovative offensive coach. My point is, I think that there's guys out there that are not big names but that can turn this thing around.

you consider kruger's record less than impressive, but find carmody's record worth a second look?

i'm not sure i can understand that.

 

[greenbug]

you consider kruger's record less than impressive, but find carmody's record worth a second look?

i'm not sure i can understand that.

yeah I understand what your saying and he wouldn't be my first choice. however, he seems to have done more with less. he was at princeton before northwestern. NW has been competitive in the conference with inferior talent. he should be able to get much better talent at OU without the academic restrictions.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

5 years ago are program was in a position were we could take a reach. Now if we do and he fails like Capel has, with No Blake Griffin in sight then we will be in even worse shape when we try to replace the new guy. At that point it will prolly be 8-20 years since Sampson, 6-8 since Blake, and even guys like Billy Clyde who are out of the game wont sniff OU. It has a chance of completely ruining our program for the next 10+ years if we reach and strike out again

This is a very pragmatic way of looking at things and I agree completely. I am as disgusted with the last two seasons as anybody BUT can see how they happened. While I do not blame Capel completely, he is obviously the guy running the show and bears ultimately responsibility. There just seems to be a "mantra" on this board that ANYONE would be better than Capel, and that just is not the case. If there is genuine mutual interest from a "big name" coach out there and we hire him, fantastic, but I just don't see it headed that direction.

 

[Bk2X]

By the time Joe pulls the trigger on Capel, there will be no decent recruits left and take the chance of losing some of our young guys on this team. Aside from a couple players, the majority have progressed and will only be better with experience. Sounds like Osby will be a suitable replacement for Davis. At least this is how I am preparing myself for next season. Just an opinion from a major OU homer.