Reschinding scholarships

[DenverSooner]

Don't know his thought process, but this is my assumption...as awful as it is to watch some of our guys play D, having them on the floor gives us a better opportunity to win, than instead throwing Franklin and Gerber out there. Some might not believe that, but that's only because they are letting their despise for Capel and this team to cloud basketball sense. Now, next year, assuming we bring in 5+ players, if someone isn't pulling their weight we will have the ability to sit them for extended periods. Right now, we don't.

Just like rescinding a scholarship is about winning, so is playing you're most talented player even though fans might not like their effort. If a JUCO PG comes in this summer and lights up as a floor leader, "buys in" to the program and works hard on the defensive end while TMG does not...JUCO will play, because that would give us a better chance of winning.

I disagree with this. Go back to the very first exhibtion game and put guys on the bench for one segment of a game (media timeout to media timeout) when they do something stupid. Obviously by the time Big XII play roles around it is difficult to bench TMG, Tiny and WW all at once but many coaches could and would have won that battle of wills. Neither Eddie Sutton nor Bob Knight would have taken anything from TMG, WW or Tiny.

 

[campbest]

I disagree with this. Go back to the very first exhibtion game and put guys on the bench for one segment of a game (media timeout to media timeout) when they do something stupid. Obviously by the time Big XII play roles around it is difficult to bench TMG, Tiny and WW all at once but many coaches could and would have won that battle of wills. Neither Eddie Sutton nor Bob Knight would have taken anything from TMG, WW or Tiny.

Don't agree that having TMG, Tiny and WW on the floor doesn't give us the best chance to win?

 

[DenverSooner]

The University of Oklahoma is not a business, and it has responsibilties to teach, none of which require a winning sports team.

I agree. OU should instill values in its athletes and students. Pulling scholarships is not something I want to see OU do.

I have zero problem if coach Capel or any coach sits down with a player and honestly tells them their prospect for playing time does not look good. In fact, I think it is the responsiblity of the coach to tell the player this. Many kids would prefer to go to a smaller school and play. I just don't think that conversation should conclude with "and as a result you won't get a scholarship next season".

 

[DenverSooner]

Don't agree that having TMG, Tiny and WW on the floor doesn't give us the best chance to win?

Sometimes to build a team you have to break the individual will of the members. The military, pledge classes and lots of organizations work this way. I don't think always playing TMG, Tiny and WW in the beginning of the season gave OU the best chance to win late in the season. I do agree they are three of the best players on the team.


Look at this entire team. For the most part they don't understand that you win sports by playing defense. Pledger, Fitzgerald, Gallon, TMG, Ryan Wright, Willis, Hardrick, Allen and Warren all suck at defense.

HTF does a guy like Pledger suck at defense? What does he think he offers other than the ability to play better defense and hit open shots?

 

[campbest]

Sometimes to build a team you have to break the individual will of the members. The military, pledge classes and lots of organizations work this way. I don't think always playing TMG, Tiny and WW in the beginning of the season gave OU the best chance to win late in the season. I do agree they are three of the best players on the team.

Who else do you play? It's not like we are a deep team. So we should just mail it in from the get-go instead of giving our best players the chance to learn on the fly? I understand situation where not getting back on defense after a turnover and giving up an contested lay-up are inexcusable, but we just don't have the depth to bench 5 guys at a time. You're still trying to win games, that goes from November-March.

 

[DenverSooner]

Who else do you play? It's not like we are a deep team. So we should just mail it in from the get-go instead of giving our best players the chance to learn on the fly? I understand situation where not getting back on defense after a turnover and giving up an contested lay-up are inexcusable, but we just don't have the depth to bench 5 guys at a time. You're still trying to win games, that goes from November-March.

If TMG for example is not working on defense against BC or Mount St. Mary's put him on the bench and play someone else. Talk to him and tell him no matter how good you are on the offensive end you will not play unless you are good on the defensive end too. Same thing with WW.

With Tiny when he doesn't play defense do the same thing. When he floats out to the three point line and forgets to post up, send someone to the table. Do it over and over again during the first 10 games until he understands to stay on the floor he has to do X.

That is what I see most other coaches do. Clearly this let them play strategy turned out pretty bad. I

 

[MercedeSooner]

To those who think rescinding scholarships is a good idea please be serious. Yes big time college basketball is big business but in the end recruiting is about trust. Parents are sending their kids to a college and coach to not only play but prepare their kids for life after whatever results in their college playing days.

If I were a parent of a big time D1 recruit I know I would love to hear how a coach at a major university pulled scholarships out from kids because he made a mistake recognizing talent and left them out to dry and transfer somewhere else.

Recruiting isnt a cut and dry game, its about the factors I described and without that you may as well give up.

 

[campbest]

To those who think rescinding scholarships is a good idea please be serious. Yes big time college basketball is big business but in the end recruiting is about trust. Parents are sending their kids to a college and coach to not only play but prepare their kids for life after whatever results in their college playing days.

If I were a parent of a big time D1 recruit I know I would love to hear how a coach at a major university pulled scholarships out from kids because he made a mistake recognizing talent and left them out to dry and transfer somewhere else.

Recruiting isnt a cut and dry game, its about the factors I described and without that you may as well give up.

I don't think you pull anything out from underneath their nose, but with that said, you have to be honest with your player. If he isn't going to play for you due to his weaknesses, shouldn't he have the right to know? Now if the guy wants to hang around and be a bench player, then that is a different scenario. I would say 90% of the guys I played with would have appreciated the info (may not have liked it, however) and moved on to a different school.

 

[DenverSooner]

I don't think you pull anything out from underneath their nose, but with that said, you have to be honest with your player. If he isn't going to play for you due to his weaknesses, shouldn't he have the right to know? Now if the guy wants to hang around and be a bench player, then that is a different scenario. I would say 90% of the guys I played with would have appreciated the info (may not have liked it, however) and moved on to a different school.

Where did you play?

 

[MercedeSooner]

I don't think you pull anything out from underneath their nose, but with that said, you have to be honest with your player. If he isn't going to play for you due to his weaknesses, shouldn't he have the right to know? Now if the guy wants to hang around and be a bench player, then that is a different scenario. I would say 90% of the guys I played with would have appreciated the info (may not have liked it, however) and moved on to a different school.

This type of situation is fine and happens every year at every school, including a lot at OU in the last couple of years. Thats a far cry from forcing kids out like Allen and Hardrick who from what I can tell would be content coming off the bench and playing sparse minutes however most importantly getting a degree which Id bet was promised to both their parents.

Any good coach should have a personal sit down with everyone of his players at the end of each year to go over their exact situations, expectations etc so both sides can understand where they stand.

 

[Big Old Booger]

To those who think rescinding scholarships is a good idea please be serious. Yes big time college basketball is big business but in the end recruiting is about trust. Parents are sending their kids to a college and coach to not only play but prepare their kids for life after whatever results in their college playing days.

If I were a parent of a big time D1 recruit I know I would love to hear how a coach at a major university pulled scholarships out from kids because he made a mistake recognizing talent and left them out to dry and transfer somewhere else.

Recruiting isnt a cut and dry game, its about the factors I described and without that you may as well give up.

If you were the parent of a big time recruit, you wouldn't consider a team that went 13-18 and looked horrible doing it. It's a catch 22, but at some point, the coach has to make some decisions. Scholarships renew each year. Nothing in life is guaranteed, not even an athletic scholarship.

 

[coolm]

it's not like some kid comes in and the coach says "ok, you're gone now...see ya".

The normal routine is a spot is located for the athlete at another school with a program that he can make a bigger contribution toward (and usually receive a scholarship from if coming from a major D1). This is where coach's networking comes in rather handy and it VERY OFTEN results in a situation better for the athlete than the one he's coming from.

 

[MercedeSooner]

Yes I know scholarships are year to year but its more of a formality rather then something that any team actually practices in regards to renewing them.

Also yes a coach has to make decisions but you dont bite the hand that feeds you. Capel has to get better in recruiting and teaching. Taking away scholarships (besides what i mentioned before about trust, which is still by far the #1 factor) is an easy way out that will again, hurt him much more then help. Its on him to use the talent he brought in and face the consequences of mistakes he made.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Yes I know scholarships are year to year but its more of a formality rather then something that any team actually practices in regards to renewing them.

Also yes a coach has to make decisions but you dont bite the hand that feeds you. Capel has to get better in recruiting and teaching. Taking away scholarships (besides what i mentioned before about trust, which is still by far the #1 factor) is an easy way out that will again, hurt him much more then help. Its on him to use the talent he brought in and face the consequences of mistakes he made.

It won't hurt him as much if everybody returns and the season ends exactly the same, or worse, and he's out of a job.

Bob Stoops has not renewed scholarships a few times, and the coach that handed our rears to us last night has too. Heck, even Kelvin didn't renew some (Lou Moore). Stuff happens. If the kid isn't good enough and Capel can find him a spot somewhere else, then it needs to be done.

 

[sybarite]

It won't hurt him as much if everybody returns and the season ends exactly the same, or worse, and he's out of a job.

Bob Stoops has not renewed scholarships a few times, and the coach that handed our rears to us last night has too. Heck, even Kelvin didn't renew some (Lou Moore). Stuff happens. If the kid isn't good enough and Capel can find him a spot somewhere else, then it needs to be done.

You have evidence? If so, present it. I will be most happy to contact the regents immediately and insist on the dismissal of any coach who terminates a scholarship because a player isn't good enough. I will personally take it to the national media.

This is an institution of higher learning, not a professional sports operation. If you want to fire a player, become a Ranger fan. They probably need to be fired.

 

[Big Old Booger]

You have evidence? If so, present it. I will be most happy to contact the regents immediately and insist on the dismissal of any coach who terminates a scholarship because a player isn't good enough. I will personally take it to the national media.

This is an institution of higher learning, not a professional sports operation. If you want to fire a player, become a Ranger fan. They probably need to be fired.

I didn't say they were all dismissed because "they weren't good enough".

Doesn't matter the reason. It happens all the time at other institutions and OU, too. Stuff happens.

 

[DenverSooner]

it's not like some kid comes in and the coach says "ok, you're gone now...see ya".

The normal routine is a spot is located for the athlete at another school with a program that he can make a bigger contribution toward (and usually receive a scholarship from if coming from a major D1). This is where coach's networking comes in rather handy and it VERY OFTEN results in a situation better for the athlete than the one he's coming from.

I have never known you to advocate a kid being forced to leave if the only thing he has done wrong is not be "good enough" to play in the Big XII. Chris Walker, Oleg Retzov and many others are student athletes that did an outstanding job at OU and never made any signficant contribution during a game. Now if Oleg or Chris had wanted more playing time, I would hope any coach at OU would do exactly what you suggest.

 

[BanjoCharley]

The ignore list is your friend.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

So now people that don't like Capel are racists? Good lord you love to think of extremes. I've never based any of my opinions on how the team is playing and based it on Jeff Capel's skin color. And if you look at my opinions on his job this year the biggest problem I have with Jeff's job this year is that he hasn't recruited that well for this roster.

He was in the Elite Eight last season with the best team that OU had in a LOOONG time, and he built it under NCAA probation. Now there are some that want him gone one season removed. I've looked for every reason to give those folks the benefit of the doubt, and can find not one reason, particularly when comparisons to John Blake are thrown out. Sad but true.

Trying to get a lunch with Joe C. set up in the near future, will report afterwards.

p.s. Nick, you wanted Bob Stoops job, rest assured I just think you

 

[NickZepp]

He was in the Elite Eight last season with the best team that OU had in a LOOONG time, and he built it under NCAA probation. Now there are some that want him gone one season removed. I've looked for every reason to give those folks the benefit of the doubt, and can find not one reason, particularly when comparisons to John Blake are thrown out. Sad but true.

Trying to get a lunch with Joe C. set up in the near future, will report afterwards.

p.s. Nick, you wanted Bob Stoops job, rest assured I just think you are an idiot, not a racist.

It was not the best season in a long time. It was the best season in 5 years. That's not a long time. I was fair on Bob Stoops based off how bad a job he was doing in 05. That team had no business being as bad as they were. And Bomar had no business taking snaps at OU at that time.