Rules Question

[AdaSooner]

In watching the Duke-FSU game just now, I saw a call I have never seen before. A FSU player went out of bounds while running the baseline under his own goal to sidestep a Duke player. He came back in an ran all of the way to the top of the key to receive a pass from a teammate. An official blew his whistle, made a motion with his hand to indicate that he had gone out of bounds. He even said "in and out" when he did.

I know that when a player goes out of bounds, it's a violation if he's the first to touch the ball after he enters the court of play again. In this case he wasn't. His teammate had possession of the ball at the top of the three point line.

That's why I am totally confused about the call. Other than the fact that Coach K had protested a call that went FSU's way a few seconds earlier, I have no idea why the official called what the player did a violation? What am I missing here?

 

[IllTemperedSeaBass]

Answer: Duke Cameron Indoor Stadium.

 

[AdaSooner]

Answer: Duke Cameron Indoor Stadium.

You're right, I thought about that too. Cameron Indoor is a tough place to play for a number of reasons, among them the calls that go Duke's way.

 

[CoachTalk]

Almost same thing happened last night in my game. Playe ran out of bounds to avoid the congestion of the lane and ref called it in and out violation.

Can't just run out of bounds to avoid the defense.

 

[AdaSooner]

Almost same thing happened last night in my game. Playe ran out of bounds to avoid the congestion of the lane and ref called it in and out violation.

Can't just run out of bounds to avoid the defense.

Makes sense. I never thought about that, because the call came well after the player had come back inbounds and received the pass at the top of the key.

 

[CoachTalk]

Makes sense. I never thought about that, because the call came well after the player had come back inbounds and received the pass at the top of the key.

Not sure why it came so late though. Ours was called right away.
Point of emphasis I think for refs this year

 

[opsooner]

I had never heard of this one either. Looked it up. I see this:

Rule 9 Violations and Penalties
Section 4. Player Out of Bounds
Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.
a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of
bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the
end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his return
to the playing court.

The reference to 7-4.6.b is talking about the case where you can pass to another out of bounds player after a goal.

The rule, to me, would be clearer if is said "next player to touch the ball" instead of "first player to touch the ball" because someone is already touching it. Regardless, looks like it is legit and not just a Duke homer call.

 

[opsooner]

Not sure why it came so late though. Ours was called right away.
Point of emphasis I think for refs this year

I also see this in the comparison of NFHS to NCAA:

ITEM: Player Out of Bounds

NFHS: Violation called as soon as player leaves the court for an unauthorized reason

NCAA: Violation called when player returns and is first to touch ball inbounds

 

[AdaSooner]

I had never heard of this one either. Looked it up. I see this:

Rule 9 Violations and Penalties
Section 4. Player Out of Bounds
Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.
a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of
bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the
end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his return
to the playing court.
The reference to 7-4.6.b is talking about the case where you can pass to another out of bounds player after a goal.

The rule, to me, would be clearer if is said "next player to touch the ball" instead of "first player to touch the ball" because someone is already touching it. Regardless, looks like it is legit and not just a Duke homer call.

That's just it, the player did not receive the pass from his teammate along the end line. The pass was well out onto the court near the top of the three point line. The whistle didn't blow until he already had the ball in his hands.

 

[opsooner]

That's just it, the player did not receive the pass from his teammate along the end line. The pass was well out onto the court near the top of the three point line. The whistle didn't blow until he already had the ball in his hands.

I think the exception you bolded is just for the inbounds play after a goal where you can pass to another player out of bounds after a goal - at least that's how I take it - so it does not apply in the case you referenced.

As always, I could be wrong and I was not familiar with the rule either. I am just trying to interpret the wording of the rules based on the assumption that the ref who called it really does understand it.

 

[CoachTalk]

I also see this in the comparison of NFHS to NCAA:

ITEM: Player Out of Bounds

NFHS: Violation called as soon as player leaves the court for an unauthorized reason

NCAA: Violation called when player returns and is first to touch ball inbounds

On the spot! Thanks man!

 

[McG78]

I know that when a player goes out of bounds, it's a violation if he's the first to touch the ball after he enters the court of play again. In this case he wasn't. His teammate had possession of the ball at the top of the three point line.

This is not a violation. The violation is when a player voluntarily goes out. If a player' momentum carries him out, it isn't voluntary. The player can re-establish position in-bounds and be the first to touch the ball.

From the 2013-14 Case Book

Out-of-Bounds Player, Ball A.R. 145. A1 deflects a pass near the end line� The ball falls to the floor inbounds but A1, who is off balance, falls outside the end line� A1 returns to the playing court, secures control of the ball, and dribbles� RULING: Legal� A1 has not left the playing court voluntarily and was not in control of the ball when leaving the playing court� The same should be true when A1 makes a try from under the basket and momentum carries A1 off the playing court� It is legal when the try is unsuccessful, and A1 comes onto the playing court and regains control of the ball� (Rule 7-1.1, 4-23.1.a and 9-4)

Player Out of Bounds A.R. 184. Team A sets a double screen for A1, who leaves the playing court voluntarily and runs under the basket, circles around, returns to the playing court and then is the first to receive the ball� RULING: A violation has been committed by A1 for leaving the playing court and then becoming the first player to touch the ball upon return� (Rule 9-4.1)

A.R. 256. A player steps out of bounds to avoid contact� RULING: This shall not be called a CLASS B technical foul unless the player leaves the playing court to deceive or gain a more advantageous position in some way� When the player is a dribbler, the ball shall be ruled out of bounds� When the player returns to the playing floor and is the first to touch the ball, a violation has occurred since he left the playing court under his own volition� (Rule 9-4.1, 10-4.1.k)

 

[usedtobe1]

It sounds like the right call, but you don't see it very often (I didn't see the game). You have a 3-man officiating crew, and the lead is watching the baseline. Quite frankly when I was the lead and a kid ran out and came back in and went to the top of the 3-point line, I let him go and just watched my area. I would probably have missed it because I'm watching the scrum underneath. My guess is the trail probably was the one who called it. As pointed out above, maybe it's an officiating point of emphasis this year and they're watching it a lot closer.

The point is he (A2) was the first player to touch the ball other than the player in control of the ball (A1) when A2 voluntarily went out of bounds. That same A1 player was in control when A2 came back in. A2 can't be the next player to touch the ball. Kudos to the refs for catching it.

That's one of the reasons they ref NCAA D1 ball and I only did HS. You have to be aware of the subtlety of so many rules that most people aren't aware of, and apply them instantly.