Sooners quartet needs help from teammates

There’s not a team in America that wouldn’t like Steven Pledger on its roster.
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Gary must not be coaching a team this year. :)
 
this is spot on ... right now we have 4 guys playing at a big12 level ...

we need 2 or 3 more ...

clark has played well in a few games .. but he was not good last night ...

amath is going to be a good player .. if the freshmen guard and shoot they will be able to play next year and this team will be 100% better
 
WTSooner said:
Gary must not be coaching a team this year. :)
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I never said I wouldn't want Pledger on the team. I would. If we were down 10 with 3 min. to play, I would put him in.

Everyone would like to have a #2 that could handle the ball, defend, beat defenders off the dribble, get into the lane and catch and shoot. But, there probably isn't enough of those kind to go around. So, plan B would be to get a good catch and shoot guy.

But, that is still plan B, Even a great run around screens catch and shoot guy is still plan B. And plan B is never as advantagious as the A plan. Kruger could run every inbound play for Pledger. On every possession he could run pick and riolls,screens and mulitple screens for him. He could prop-up Pledger's scoring average to 40 a game if he waned to. But, that wouldn't help them win any more games. There is more to it than that.

I'm trying to stay out of this and be nice. But, if you you want to start poking at me, I can start unloading on him. I have plenty of notes and new material.
 
garyeb2 said:
I'm trying to stay out of this and be nice. But, if you you want to start poking at me, I can start unloading on him. I have plenty of notes and new material.
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Oh, take it easy, I was just joking around.

And what kind of new material? Your last comments were that he couldn't do anything against talented teams. He just tore up a VERY talented Mizzou team, on a night where he wasn't 100% healthy. He also had very good games against a KSU team that is likely Dancing, or will just miss out.
 
garyeb2 said:
I never said I wouldn't want Pledger on the team. I would. If we were down 10 with 3 min. to play, I would put him in.

Everyone would like to have a #2 that could handle the ball, defend, beat defenders off the dribble, get into the lane and catch and shoot. But, there probably isn't enough of those kind to go around. So, plan B would be to get a good catch and shoot guy.

But, that is still plan B, Even a great run around screens catch and shoot guy is still plan B. And plan B is never as advantagious as the A plan. Kruger could run every inbound play for Pledger. On every possession he could run pick and riolls,screens and mulitple screens for him. He could prop-up Pledger's scoring average to 40 a game if he waned to. But, that wouldn't help them win any more games. There is more to it than that.

I'm trying to stay out of this and be nice. But, if you you want to start poking at me, I can start unloading on him. I have plenty of notes and new material.
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I am sure you would but the fact of the matter is his average against the top teams has gone up since your last bashing. He got 17 against KU and 22 against Missouri. In the first 5 games you complained about he averaged just under 13 a game. After 7 games (not counting ISU where he had 14 points) he is averaging 14.7 per game. If you add ISU into the mix he is averaging 14.6. That is extremely good and it is against the best teams OU has played. His average on the season is 17.8.

The guy is playing really well. You are wrong about the guy. He would start on most teams in the Big XII and in the Country. He would get signficant minutes on just about every team in the country. He is not only producing points, he is doing it with a high shooting percentage. He maintains that shooting percentage even though he asked to take the contested shots at the end of the game.
 
I have to eat another helping of crow about Pledger as he has proven me wrong this year. He is definitely the key cog for us because when he's on we have a chance to win and do win more than we do when he's not on.

It's just too bad we don't have another guard who can help him a little.

I hope this team can make postseason because Pledger and Fitz deserve it. The other guys do too, but those guys came right after the elite 8 run and have experience nothing but a bunch of losses.
 
WTSooner said:
Oh, take it easy, I was just joking around.

And what kind of new material? Your last comments were that he couldn't do anything against talented teams. He just tore up a VERY talented Mizzou team, on a night where he wasn't 100% healthy. He also had very good games against a KSU team that is likely Dancing, or will just miss out.
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New material? OK. In the first possesions right after halftime. He missed two wide open shots,committed 2 turnovers, was guilty of 2 just awfull defensives lapses, and fouled a 3 pt. shooter. A Nick Thompson caliber performance. He single handedly turned a 3 pt. deficit into 9. And then when a lucky bounce gave him a chance, for the 3 rd time this year, he choked the money shot.

You think that Pledger's offense offsets his shortcomings to a degree that he is an asset. I don't. And even if I were wrong, it wouldn't be by much. It probably cost about 15 pts. a game to put him on the floor. When he scores more than that, he is probably alittle bit of a help. When he doesn't, OU is trying to win games playing 4 on 5.

He is a pretty good catch and shoot guard. And Kruger does a good job of calling enough plays for him to get some offense. That is it.

I know Clay Horning pretty well. He has kept me up to speed on womens basketball and I would like to think that I've helped him alittle with his poker game. I think he is a good basketball man and I hardly ever disagree with him or his opinion. I think this article is spot on. Most coaches would want Pledger on their roster. He would be a good off the bench guy for most anyone and a starter for good conference 2nd div. teams and mid-majors.
 
lol ^^^that's so ridiculous. i really cannot believe that anybody mentions nick thompson in the same breath as pledger...seriosuly just stop. he is averaging nearly 18 a game with 4 rebounds and hitting 46% of his 3s.
 
BTW, he has less than 2 TOs per game while playing 32 mpg. he is usually smart with the ball especially considering he sees a lot of doubles and traps.
 
And this "bad defense" stuff is just that, a bunch of talk. He isn't a great defender, but he is average at worst. His defense has improved tons since last year. And for every bad defensive play he has, somebody else has just as many. What about Osby getting back-doored? What about Blair getting way to close to his man near halfcourt with a minute left, getting blown by, and allowing an open three because a defender had to help?

Some people get so hung up on individual defense, that it is clear they don't understand the game. Kelvin had very few great individual defenders. What he did was take a bunch of average or slightly above average defenders, sprinkled in a few great ones from time to time, and created a great TEAM defense. A bunch of solid individual defenders can play great team defense. How else do you explain some of the team defenses we put on the court with guys like Heskett, a bad-knee'd Kelly Newton, and so on and so forth playing major minutes?
 
Next year OU will have guys to help him. Adding two top 100 backcourt players is going to make a difference. A team needs 5 scholarship backcourt players. OU has 3.

Just imagine if OU had any of these guys: TMG, WW, Ray Willis, Calvin Newell or T.J. Taylor. All six of those guys would have eligibility this year.

If you really want to play what if, imagine if TMG , WW and Tiny had good attitudes and stayed at OU. TMG could do everything Grooms does and a lot more. If someone could have convinced that kid that his ticket to the NBA was averaging a double double as an assist first guy, he would be an amazing player. WW would be averaging 20 a night in college ball. WW is shooting over 40% from 3 in the D-league. He would absolutely be shooting above 40% from a much closer 3 point line in college. Pledger would be the third option and is doing a great job as the primary scorer. Without all the pressure he might be able to shoot close to 50% from 3 point range. I don't think a single team exists with 3 bigs like Tiny, Osby and Fitz. Cam Clark is coming off the bench as an energy guy that thows down incredible dunks on the break.

OU doesn't even need all of those guys. Simply add TMG or WW to this team and it is an extremely good basketball team. Therefore, even if it were impossible for the two super egos to play together it doesn't matter. Either of them make this a very good basketball team.
 
garyeb2 said:
New material? OK. In the first possesions right after halftime. He missed two wide open shots,committed 2 turnovers, was guilty of 2 just awfull defensives lapses, and fouled a 3 pt. shooter. A Nick Thompson caliber performance. He single handedly turned a 3 pt. deficit into 9. And then when a lucky bounce gave him a chance, for the 3 rd time this year, he choked the money shot.

You think that Pledger's offense offsets his shortcomings to a degree that he is an asset. I don't. And even if I were wrong, it wouldn't be by much. It probably cost about 15 pts. a game to put him on the floor. When he scores more than that, he is probably alittle bit of a help. When he doesn't, OU is trying to win games playing 4 on 5.

He is a pretty good catch and shoot guard. And Kruger does a good job of calling enough plays for him to get some offense. That is it.

I know Clay Horning pretty well. He has kept me up to speed on womens basketball and I would like to think that I've helped him alittle with his poker game. I think he is a good basketball man and I hardly ever disagree with him or his opinion. I think this article is spot on. Most coaches would want Pledger on their roster. He would be a good off the bench guy for most anyone and a starter for good conference 2nd div. teams and mid-majors.
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You just went FULL Retard. :clap
 
garyeb2 said:
New material? OK. In the first possesions right after halftime. He missed two wide open shots,committed 2 turnovers, was guilty of 2 just awfull defensives lapses, and fouled a 3 pt. shooter. A Nick Thompson caliber performance. He single handedly turned a 3 pt. deficit into 9. And then when a lucky bounce gave him a chance, for the 3 rd time this year, he choked the money shot.

You think that Pledger's offense offsets his shortcomings to a degree that he is an asset. I don't. And even if I were wrong, it wouldn't be by much. It probably cost about 15 pts. a game to put him on the floor. When he scores more than that, he is probably alittle bit of a help. When he doesn't, OU is trying to win games playing 4 on 5.

He is a pretty good catch and shoot guard. And Kruger does a good job of calling enough plays for him to get some offense. That is it.

I know Clay Horning pretty well. He has kept me up to speed on womens basketball and I would like to think that I've helped him alittle with his poker game. I think he is a good basketball man and I hardly ever disagree with him or his opinion. I think this article is spot on. Most coaches would want Pledger on their roster. He would be a good off the bench guy for most anyone and a starter for good conference 2nd div. teams and mid-majors.
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So one of your primary beefs with the Missouri game is that Pledger did not shoot 11-14 from the floor or 78.5%. I would also note you seem to have expected him to shoot at least 6-9 from 3 point range (because he was 5-9) for 66.6% from 3 point range. If the two other missed shots were from 3 we need to raise that.

He host 8-14 from the field for 57.1% and 5-9 from three for 55.5% but that is not good for you. Here is a little perspective for you. The top perecnetage shooter in the league is Ratliffe and he shoots an unheard of .755. After that it is Perry Jones at .552 and Robinson at .548. royce White also shoots above .500. All four of those guys are forwards. They get put backs. layups and dunks that significantly increase their shooting percentage.

The only backcourt player with a higher shooting percentage than Pledger is Tyshawn Taylor at .487 compared to Pledger's .482 (that is probably one made basket).

What you expect of the kid is unreasonable. You simply don't understand the game of basketball. Pledger had a great offensive night against Missouri. If he did anything wrong on the offensive end it was not shoot enough but then a clown like you would cry that his percentage was only 50% instead of 57%.

Pledger is not a great defensive player but neither was Blake Griffin. His job is to score points. He almost has to rest a little bit on defense because he has to work so hard on offense. With that said, his defense is not horrible. He has improved significantly and I think he will be even better at defense next year.
 
WTSooner said:
And this "bad defense" stuff is just that, a bunch of talk. He isn't a great defender, but he is average at worst. His defense has improved tons since last year. And for every bad defensive play he has, somebody else has just as many. What about Osby getting back-doored? What about Blair getting way to close to his man near halfcourt with a minute left, getting blown by, and allowing an open three because a defender had to help?

Some people get so hung up on individual defense, that it is clear they don't understand the game. Kelvin had very few great individual defenders. What he did was take a bunch of average or slightly above average defenders, sprinkled in a few great ones from time to time, and created a great TEAM defense. A bunch of solid individual defenders can play great team defense. How else do you explain some of the team defenses we put on the court with guys like Heskett, a bad-knee'd Kelly Newton, and so on and so forth playing major minutes?
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Hesket and Newton were just plain and simple better defenders than Pledger. The players that Kelvin kept around were just plain and simple better than this years group. Mayby Osby, but, the rest aren't good enough to play on a good team. If they were, we would have a good team this year. But, we don't. 7 or 8 conference wins.

I know, it is not Pledger's fault. It is some one else or something else. You can keep on riding that. But, I know better. We don't play good team defense now. They all bust way too often. None no more that Fitz and Pledger. CJ is as bad, but, not as many minutes. Pledger can score. But, if the objective is to be a good basketball team, he is a liability by every other metric. Those that fail to see or understand that are the ones that don't know anything about basketball.

Good basketball teams don't have players like Pledger on the floor for very many minutes. Now, I probably shouldn't pound on him as hard as I do. He is Kruger's only and best option right now. The current best chance to get point production out of the peremeter players is to run stuff over and over for him.

I cann't wait till next year. M'baye will be a legit scoring option. If either of those freshmen turns out to be any good at all, they snag at least 15 of Pledger's minutes. He production will come down and he will be able to evolve into the role player that he is suppose to be. And mayby,just mayby, his man crush club will tone down and find another hero.
 
garyeb2 said:
Good basketball teams don't have players like Pledger on the floor for very many minutes. Now, I probably shouldn't pound on him as hard as I do. He is Kruger's only and best option right now. The current best chance to get point production out of the peremeter players is to run stuff over and over for him.

I cann't wait till next year. M'baye will be a legit scoring option. If either of those freshmen turns out to be any good at all, they snag at least 15 of Pledger's minutes. He production will come down and he will be able to evolve into the role player that he is suppose to be. And mayby,just mayby, his man crush club will tone down and find another hero.
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1. I've stayed out of this, but to say that good basketball teams do not have players like Pledger on the floor for significant minutes is off the rails. There is not a team in the conference where he would not play significant minutes excepting maybe Baylor [I just don't think he is a fit for what they try to do].

2. Excepting injury or some other unforeseen event, Pledger will see probably about as many minutes per game as he does now. His "role" and one that he is performing quite well, is to be our primary perimeter threat and hit shots. I can tell you unequivocally that his minutes will not be cut by 15 minutes per game, especially if he sees a similar increase in offensive efficiency from last year to this year [although he is playing at such a high level on offense right now, he may have peaked].

Maybe so many people have a "man-crush" because they see a guy playing well? The Newell-Pledger debate was fun because Calvin and Pledger were both good at completely different things. If Calvin were on campus, I expect that he would be seeing significant time and possibly even starting. But Pledge has been playing great basketball for most of the season, I cringe to think how this team would be playing without him.
 
Barring an injury, there is zero chance Pledger is averaging less than 20 minutes/game next year.
 
garyeb2 said:
Good basketball teams don't have players like Pledger on the floor for very many minutes.

If either of those freshmen turns out to be any good at all, they snag at least 15 of Pledger's minutes.
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holy **** man. Did bird still your girl or something? You are insane
 
152219 said:
Barring an injury, there is zero chance Pledger is averaging less than 20 minutes/game next year.
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You can safely add 5 minutes per game to that and possibly 10. Pledger plays the 6th highest minutes in the conference. He is top 7 or above in each of the following categories: scoring, shooting percentage, 3 point shots made, 3 point shooting percentage and free throw percentage.

The conference lists top 14 in steals at 28. Four guys are tied at this number. Pledger has 23 steals on the season so he is not far from making this top list too.

He averages 4 rebounds a game making him the fourth leading rebounder on OU's team but he is third in offensive rebounds. I would suspect (but I don't know this as a fact) that 4 a game compares nicely with other backcourt players. He has less turn overs than both Grooms and Blair. Pledger has 42 turn overs. Osby has 38 and Clark has 37. They have played less minutes and handle the ball less.

Gary is simply wrong.
 
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