Thunder -130 to win series

bocabull said:
The playoffs come down to making buckets in crunch time. Grizzlies don't have a closer. Thunder have Durant.

Perkins will earn his check banging on Gasol. Ibaka will bother Z-Bo enough.

Conley is the X factor for the Griz. Don't see him having enough consistently to make the difference they need.

Thunder still favored for a reason. Laying $130 to win $100 is good odds.
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Come on boca... You've had a solid perspective of my Grizz for the last few seasons, now you're starting to jump ship?!? Have some faith in my boys...
 
Max Power said:
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3206/marc-gasol

Marc Gasol averaging 8 more points this series than his season average.
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Yeah, Gasol has been working Perk this series, which is one of the main reasons why I was so livid at Hollins for not running the offense through Gasol in the 2nd half last night.

Without Westbrook, OKC could use as much offense as possible. RW's absence exacerbates Perkins' flaws (i.e. no offenive game) to the point that it gives Collison even more of a case to get more minutes with Ibaka. Not only has he historically given Z-Bo more trouble on defense than any other post player on OKC's roster, but he's also a substantial upgrade over Perk on offense.
 
Max Power said:
You asked for data, I provided it, not sure what you are questioning
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Lol you provided two games of data against one player. You said there was tons of data showing big men score more on perk than their averages.

Lol
 
Max Power said:
Where did I say tons?
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I was the one that said tons. But, I guess Soonerbounce can't take the words of professional analysts like Charles Barkley, Ernie Johnson, Bill Simmons, Shaquille O'Neal, and Zach Lowe that Kendrick Perkins play both offensively and defensively are subpar. Aside from the point Maxpower made about Gasol's increased offensive prowess against Kendrick compared to most centers in the league.

Out of 54 centers in the NBA (note there are only 30 NBA teams) Kendrick ranks DEAD LAST in PER. PER is "Player Efficiency Rating." Take note, that means that Hasheem Thabeet and stars like Lavoy Allen are more efficient on the court than Perkins.

This season:
Brook Lopez averaged 6 points higher than his average and shot 12% above his season average against Perkins.
Nikola Pekovic scored 20+ twice against Kendrick while also getting a double-double in those two games. Both higher than his averages.
Al Horford score 8 points above his average and was at his average the other game.
J.J. Hickson didn't start the majority of games this season until Vajero got hurt. But once he did he outperformed his scoring and rebounding average against Kendrick.
Larry Sanders also continues this trend of somehow playing above his season average against The Great Kendrick Perkins.
And one more, my personal favorite NBA center, Nikola Vucevic was able to score 21 points and 14 rebounds against defensive monster - Kendrick Perkins.

Also, if you don't know who Nikola Vucevic is then your opinion on Perkins is largely uneducated as that would show that you don't follow the NBA and judge local players defensive prowess by their scowl.

ib1p4s2u628dhs.gif
 
Perkins is only good at guarding immobile, post-up centers. He's terrible at everything else and shouldn't be playing more than 15 minutes a game.

The Thunder need to go small the rest of the playoffs. Their starting lineup has enough trouble scoring with Westbrook. Now that he's out they can't do anything.

Let Memphis decide if they want to play Gasol and Randolph together against a lineup of Fisher, Martin, Sefolosha, Durant, and Ibaka.

I find it obnoxious that Scott Brooks lets every opponent dictate the style of the game.
 
TheGimper said:
Out of 54 centers in the NBA (note there are only 30 NBA teams) Kendrick ranks DEAD LAST in PER. PER is "Player Efficiency Rating." Take note, that means that Hasheem Thabeet and stars like Lavoy Allen are more efficient on the court than Perkins.
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yeah b/c PER is the end all be all right? You really want thabeet and allen playing over perkins?

And PER isn't really geared towards defensive stats.. We all know he sucks offensively and is not a good rebounder. His value is in screens, taking up space, and man defense. I said I think he is overpaid and is worth around 6 mil a year. Comparing his PERs to other centers isn't really relevant...especially to players that are better than him and make more than him.

This season:
Brook Lopez averaged 6 points higher than his average and shot 12% above his season average against Perkins.
Nikola Pekovic scored 20+ twice against Kendrick while also getting a double-double in those two games. Both higher than his averages.
Al Horford score 8 points above his average and was at his average the other game.
J.J. Hickson didn't start the majority of games this season until Vajero got hurt. But once he did he outperformed his scoring and rebounding average against Kendrick.
Larry Sanders also continues this trend of somehow playing above his season average against The Great Kendrick Perkins.
And one more, my personal favorite NBA center, Nikola Vucevic was able to score 21 points and 14 rebounds against defensive monster - Kendrick Perkins.
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Those are all great...problem is that's still a low number of examples and those can be flawed too. Perkins isn't always on the floor guarding those guys either.
I really think if people watched a game specifically watching perkins on defense they would see he is our best post defender.


Who in your opinion is the best post defenders in the NBA? I bet you could look up their stats and find several players who performed better than their averages against them.
Also, if you don't know who Nikola Vucevic is then your opinion on Perkins is largely uneducated as that would show that you don't follow the NBA and judge local players defensive prowess by their scowl.
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I literaly laughed out loud with this last part.
 
treebranch said:
Perkins is only good at guarding immobile, post-up centers. He's terrible at everything else and shouldn't be playing more than 15 minutes a game.

The Thunder need to go small the rest of the playoffs. Their starting lineup has enough trouble scoring with Westbrook. Now that he's out they can't do anything.

Let Memphis decide if they want to play Gasol and Randolph together against a lineup of Fisher, Martin, Sefolosha, Durant, and Ibaka.

I find it obnoxious that Scott Brooks lets every opponent dictate the style of the game.
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To Brooks' credit, he did start playing perkins less vs Houston.

I don't think you will or should see if vs Memphis.

You want us to go small against a team that dominates us in the post already?
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
To Brooks' credit, he did start playing perkins less vs Houston.

I don't think you will or should see if vs Memphis.

You want us to go small against a team that dominates us in the post already?
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Well, if they are dominating the Thunder inside WITH Perk, might as well go small. The Thunder might have to simply outscore Memphis, and that will be easier with Perk on the bench.

What is the saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
 
TheGimper said:
I was the one that said tons. But, I guess Soonerbounce can't take the words of professional analysts like Charles Barkley, Ernie Johnson, Bill Simmons, Shaquille O'Neal, and Zach Lowe that Kendrick Perkins play both offensively and defensively are subpar. Aside from the point Maxpower made about Gasol's increased offensive prowess against Kendrick compared to most centers in the league.

Out of 54 centers in the NBA (note there are only 30 NBA teams) Kendrick ranks DEAD LAST in PER. PER is "Player Efficiency Rating." Take note, that means that Hasheem Thabeet and stars like Lavoy Allen are more efficient on the court than Perkins.

This season:
Brook Lopez averaged 6 points higher than his average and shot 12% above his season average against Perkins.
Nikola Pekovic scored 20+ twice against Kendrick while also getting a double-double in those two games. Both higher than his averages.
Al Horford score 8 points above his average and was at his average the other game.
J.J. Hickson didn't start the majority of games this season until Vajero got hurt. But once he did he outperformed his scoring and rebounding average against Kendrick.
Larry Sanders also continues this trend of somehow playing above his season average against The Great Kendrick Perkins.
And one more, my personal favorite NBA center, Nikola Vucevic was able to score 21 points and 14 rebounds against defensive monster - Kendrick Perkins.

Also, if you don't know who Nikola Vucevic is then your opinion on Perkins is largely uneducated as that would show that you don't follow the NBA and judge local players defensive prowess by their scowl.

ib1p4s2u628dhs.gif
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You area better man than me gimper. Once I saw this was going nowhere i decided not to waste my time looking at anymore NBA stats
 
you are right about one thing....it would have been a waste of time
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
To Brooks' credit, he did start playing perkins less vs Houston.

I don't think you will or should see if vs Memphis.

You want us to go small against a team that dominates us in the post already?
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Yes, because by playing the big lineup you concede that it's going to be Memphis' style of game, and they're just better at playing slow and in the 90s than the Thunder are.

I you play small, Memphis will be forced to choose whether to have Gasol or Randolph cover a guard, which neither can do, or go small with a brutally inefficient offensive unit.

Memphis can't score. Conley is their only guard worth worrying about, and he's not a good shooter anyway. I say put your best offensive lineup out there and see if they can keep up.

I'd probably feel differently if Westbrook was healthy, but as it is, about half of Durant's minutes need to be at the 4.
 
treebranch said:
Yes, because by playing the big lineup you concede that it's going to be Memphis' style of game, and they're just better at playing slow and in the 90s than the Thunder are.

I you play small, Memphis will be forced to choose whether to have Gasol or Randolph cover a guard, which neither can do, or go small with a brutally inefficient offensive unit.

Memphis can't score. Conley is their only guard worth worrying about, and he's not a good shooter anyway. I say put your best offensive lineup out there and see if they can keep up.

I'd probably feel differently if Westbrook was healthy, but as it is, about half of Durant's minutes need to be at the 4.
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we have tried playing small in this series and collision fouled out in like 10 minutes.

I'm not opposed to trying it again but so far it hasn't worked
 
Collison has nothing to do with going small. I don't really care what big plays the 5, though Ibaka is obviously the best option.

OKC played small for about five minutes in game two. They first went small with under nine minutes to go in the second quarter, then immediately took the lead. They went big four minutes later and were down at half. They played big the entire second half except for about a 30 second period at the end of the game (when Durant fell down for no reason and turned it over).

In game one they played small for about eight minutes total and that lineup was around a +10. Going small got them back into the game at the end of the third and start of the fourth quarter. You can check out the play-by-play yourself. Let me know what you find.
 
treebranch said:
Collison has nothing to do with going small.
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Sure he does if he is the only big out there.

OKC played small for about five minutes in game two. They first went small with under nine minutes to go in the second quarter, then immediately took the lead. They went big four minutes later and were down at half. They played big the entire second half except for about a 30 second period at the end of the game (when Durant fell down for no reason and turned it over).

In game one they played small for about eight minutes total and that lineup was around a +10. Going small got them back into the game at the end of the third and start of the fourth quarter. You can check out the play-by-play yourself. Let me know what you find.
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You have any links to back this up?
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
we have tried playing small in this series and collision fouled out in like 10 minutes.

I'm not opposed to trying it again but so far it hasn't worked
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"Brooks didn't go to Durant at power forward until late in the 3rd quarter, eventually staying with that setup for about 8:30 of continuous play in which the Thunder were plus 10. They were also plus 10 in 26 regular season small-ball minutes." - Zach Lowe via Grantland.com
 
TheGimper said:
"Brooks didn't go to Durant at power forward until late in the 3rd quarter, eventually staying with that setup for about 8:30 of continuous play in which the Thunder were plus 10. They were also plus 10 in 26 regular season small-ball minutes." - Zach Lowe via Grantland.com
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Good info.

Have to look at who was on the floor for Memphis at that time too
 
I am pretty confident Brooks knows the plus minus when he played small. He just has to decide what he wants to do. I suspect there is a bit more to it than you guys are considering. One huge thing that jumps out to me is the risk of foul trouble for Durrant if they play small most of the game. If Durant fouls out, I am pretty sure OKC loses.

It seems to me the decision is how long can the team afford to go small. Maybe the answer is until Durrant has foul trouble but that has its problems too. Once in foul trouble Durrant has to be more conservative on offense and defense. Therefore, Brooks is back to a balancing act. Some of you guys act like you could do a better job than Brooks. To me that is just crazy. OKC has gone from a horrible team to a really good team under Brooks. Perhaps he is not the best coach in the NBA but he certainly isnt the worst.
 
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