Time to talk about Bieniemy

[sheepdogs1]

Oh I’m sorry, I thought this is where we talk about OU basketball issues, my bad.

Looks like the plumage (of others) does not like being ruffled. Offer "grow up pills" as a peace offering (quick acting variety).

 

[sheepdogs1]

This is all true but how does he do that when our offense is literally “one pass, try to find a shot”?

By not deferring to others for basically the whole game would be a start.

 

[steverocks35]

By not deferring to others for basically the whole game would be a start.

Yeah, but it would be tough when you have Manek, Doolittle and Reaves on your team. I'm sure he wants to get those guys the ball.

 

[BCSooners]

Running what offense? Can anyone even tell what kind of "offense" we are running?

They work to get switches on mismatches they want, then they space the floor and get it to the guy in a spot they feel is best to exploit the mismatch.

 

[red recluse]

They work to get switches on mismatches they want, then they space the floor and get it to the guy in a spot they feel is best to exploit the mismatch.

great in theory, then we rotate the ball to the other side instead exploiting the mismatch, like we did several times last night. or not get a shot off like harmon when azubuike was on him.

 

[WichitaSooner]

great in theory, then we rotate the ball to the other side instead exploiting the mismatch, like we did several times last night. or not get a shot off like harmon when azubuike was on him.

The KU beat writer is an advanced stat freak. In his preview yesterday, he noted that OU is in the 98th percentile in isolation scoring. That would indicate that we do, in fact, exploit individual mismatches very well. Might not be as pleasing to watch as crisp ball movement, but to say we don't do it well is not accurate.

 

[steverocks35]

They work to get switches on mismatches they want, then they space the floor and get it to the guy in a spot they feel is best to exploit the mismatch.

Right it's the "pro-style" offense. This sort of works against teams that you can "out-athlete," or a dumb, poorly-coached team like Texas. The problem being, what if you are playing a quick, long, athletic team? Hard to create all those mismatches and you get bogged down many times and have to throw one up late in the shot clock.

 

[steverocks35]

The KU beat writer is an advanced stat freak. In his preview yesterday, he noted that OU is in the 98th percentile in isolation scoring. That would indicate that we do, in fact, exploit individual mismatches very well. Might not be as pleasing to watch as crisp ball movement, but to say we don't do it well is not accurate.

Well we might be in the "98th percentile" because very few other teams do it.

 

[red recluse]

The KU beat writer is an advanced stat freak. In his preview yesterday, he noted that OU is in the 98th percentile in isolation scoring. That would indicate that we do, in fact, exploit individual mismatches very well. Might not be as pleasing to watch as crisp ball movement, but to say we don't do it well is not accurate.

that doesn't tell me mismatches are being exploited, it tells me we go one on one a lot, because thats how our best player scores.

 

[WTSooner]

that doesn't tell me mismatches are being exploited, it tells me we go one on one a lot, because thats how our best player scores.

Exactly. That is my take from watching, that we simply don't have players creating for anybody but themselves most of the time, so statistically, it comes across as isolation.

 

[BCSooners]

great in theory, then we rotate the ball to the other side instead exploiting the mismatch, like we did several times last night. or not get a shot off like harmon when azubuike was on him.

I’m just saying what the offense is. I don’t agree we should do it every possession or that the guys don’t execute when they could. I’m sure the staff wasn’t happy when Harmon didn’t attack. They used to always get on to Doolittle about not attacking mismatches & now he’s really good at it.

 

[thebigabd]

Exactly. That is my take from watching, that we simply don't have players creating for anybody but themselves most of the time, so statistically, it comes across as isolation.

Oklahoma ranks dead last in the Big 12 in assists.
Oklahoma ranks 304th in the nation in assists per game.

I guess that makes sense then.

 

[BCSooners]

Right it's the "pro-style" offense. This sort of works against teams that you can "out-athlete," or a dumb, poorly-coached team like Texas. The problem being, what if you are playing a quick, long, athletic team? Hard to create all those mismatches and you get bogged down many times and have to throw one up late in the shot clock.

You asked what OU runs. I don’t think this group can do it without a dominant wing, I thought Williams could’ve been the guy & I think DH will be good at it.

 

[NY Soonerfan]

I've been outspoken on my lack of enthusiasm towards Bieniemy since last year, and took a lot of heat for saying (very late in the season) I'd rather have Calixte out there; and my overall point, and one that I think has really played itself out this year, is that I don't think it does a team that is severely challenged to score the ball any good to have a guy out there who won't shoot the ball. Yes, he has DEFINITELY bee better in the last few games, but his overall body of work, which is now 50 games at the college level, is what it is.

We saw it a few times Tuesday night when he would beat a defender, seemingly have a chance at getting to the rim, only to pull and pass the ball back out to the perimeter. This is one of the reasons he never goes to the line. I'm not sure if he doesn't like contact, or what it is, but there have been several times where he beats a defender and has no desire to get to the rim. Plus, how many times does he pass up wide open jump shots? Over the course of the year it has to be dozens upon dozens. If you won't take it hard to the rim, or shoot when you're wide open, what role should you be playing on offense, on a team that can't do anything on offense?

I mentioned it in another thread earlier this year, that I don't even think we can consider him a good shooter off last year, when he made 40% of his 3's, since he only made 27 on the year, and that's hardly a sample size. Furthermore, 10 of the 27 came in three games. Now, he's obviously not as bad as a 21% shooter either, but the difference probably lies in between the two, so I don't really expect him to suddenly catch fire and be a 40% guy.

And I'm not even sure we can call this the dreaded sophomore slump, when he really didn't excel as a freshman. He had a few great games, a few good ones, and then a lot of what he's doing now, and that's shooting the ball very little, while doing nothing of any great consequence on the offensive end. Yes, he is a solid ball handler who doesn't turn it over a lot, but that's not the type of offensive player this team needs. He's not a great facilitator with the ball, in the sense that it's enough to overcome the fact we're 4-on-5 when he's on offense. Of course, I'm in the camp that isn't too high on him, so this is easy for me to say, while those who are high on him will say it is in fact a sophomore slump. The eye is in the beholder on this one, obviously.

What I will say is that I too am extremely disappointed in his lack of progress. I did not think he would take some quantum leap this year (clearly), but I did think he would be better than this. Coach made the Isiah comparison, and that's fair and something to hope for, but after 50 games, IMHO, you are what you are and turning into something you are not would be a real outlier. To me, Bieniemy looks like a competent backup PG on a top-half B12 kind of team, and, sadly, he's the starting PG on a team that will be a bottom-half B12 kind of team. A statement which could start a whole other discussion hehe

 

[sheepdogs1]

I've been outspoken on my lack of enthusiasm towards Bieniemy since last year, and took a lot of heat for saying (very late in the season) I'd rather have Calixte out there; and my overall point, and one that I think has really played itself out this year, is that I don't think it does a team that is severely challenged to score the ball any good to have a guy out there who won't shoot the ball. Yes, he has DEFINITELY bee better in the last few games, but his overall body of work, which is now 50 games at the college level, is what it is.

We saw it a few times Tuesday night when he would beat a defender, seemingly have a chance at getting to the rim, only to pull and pass the ball back out to the perimeter. This is one of the reasons he never goes to the line. I'm not sure if he doesn't like contact, or what it is, but there have been several times where he beats a defender and has no desire to get to the rim. Plus, how many times does he pass up wide open jump shots? Over the course of the year it has to be dozens upon dozens. If you won't take it hard to the rim, or shoot when you're wide open, what role should you be playing on offense, on a team that can't do anything on offense?

I mentioned it in another thread earlier this year, that I don't even think we can consider him a good shooter off last year, when he made 40% of his 3's, since he only made 27 on the year, and that's hardly a sample size. Furthermore, 10 of the 27 came in three games. Now, he's obviously not as bad as a 21% shooter either, but the difference probably lies in between the two, so I don't really expect him to suddenly catch fire and be a 40% guy.

And I'm not even sure we can call this the dreaded sophomore slump, when he really didn't excel as a freshman. He had a few great games, a few good ones, and then a lot of what he's doing now, and that's shooting the ball very little, while doing nothing of any great consequence on the offensive end. Yes, he is a solid ball handler who doesn't turn it over a lot, but that's not the type of offensive player this team needs. He's not a great facilitator with the ball, in the sense that it's enough to overcome the fact we're 4-on-5 when he's on offense. Of course, I'm in the camp that isn't too high on him, so this is easy for me to say, while those who are high on him will say it is in fact a sophomore slump. The eye is in the beholder on this one, obviously.

What I will say is that I too am extremely disappointed in his lack of progress. I did not think he would take some quantum leap this year (clearly), but I did think he would be better than this. Coach made the Isiah comparison, and that's fair and something to hope for, but after 50 games, IMHO, you are what you are and turning into something you are not would be a real outlier. To me, Bieniemy looks like a competent backup PG on a top-half B12 kind of team, and, sadly, he's the starting PG on a team that will be a bottom-half B12 kind of team. A statement which could start a whole other discussion hehe

You need not be apologetic for anything for you are just sharing your observations, which so happens to mirror what others see as well, but the difference is some accept what they witness while others tend to delude themselves of it. Such is life.

 

[thebigabd]

I've been outspoken on my lack of enthusiasm towards Bieniemy since last year, and took a lot of heat for saying (very late in the season) I'd rather have Calixte out there; and my overall point, and one that I think has really played itself out this year, is that I don't think it does a team that is severely challenged to score the ball any good to have a guy out there who won't shoot the ball. Yes, he has DEFINITELY bee better in the last few games, but his overall body of work, which is now 50 games at the college level, is what it is.

We saw it a few times Tuesday night when he would beat a defender, seemingly have a chance at getting to the rim, only to pull and pass the ball back out to the perimeter. This is one of the reasons he never goes to the line. I'm not sure if he doesn't like contact, or what it is, but there have been several times where he beats a defender and has no desire to get to the rim. Plus, how many times does he pass up wide open jump shots? Over the course of the year it has to be dozens upon dozens. If you won't take it hard to the rim, or shoot when you're wide open, what role should you be playing on offense, on a team that can't do anything on offense?

I mentioned it in another thread earlier this year, that I don't even think we can consider him a good shooter off last year, when he made 40% of his 3's, since he only made 27 on the year, and that's hardly a sample size. Furthermore, 10 of the 27 came in three games. Now, he's obviously not as bad as a 21% shooter either, but the difference probably lies in between the two, so I don't really expect him to suddenly catch fire and be a 40% guy.

And I'm not even sure we can call this the dreaded sophomore slump, when he really didn't excel as a freshman. He had a few great games, a few good ones, and then a lot of what he's doing now, and that's shooting the ball very little, while doing nothing of any great consequence on the offensive end. Yes, he is a solid ball handler who doesn't turn it over a lot, but that's not the type of offensive player this team needs. He's not a great facilitator with the ball, in the sense that it's enough to overcome the fact we're 4-on-5 when he's on offense. Of course, I'm in the camp that isn't too high on him, so this is easy for me to say, while those who are high on him will say it is in fact a sophomore slump. The eye is in the beholder on this one, obviously.

What I will say is that I too am extremely disappointed in his lack of progress. I did not think he would take some quantum leap this year (clearly), but I did think he would be better than this. Coach made the Isiah comparison, and that's fair and something to hope for, but after 50 games, IMHO, you are what you are and turning into something you are not would be a real outlier. To me, Bieniemy looks like a competent backup PG on a top-half B12 kind of team, and, sadly, he's the starting PG on a team that will be a bottom-half B12 kind of team. A statement which could start a whole other discussion hehe

Best post on the subject. Agree with every word. Pretty difficult to dispute anything here.

 

[daqman]

I've had high hopes for a lot of players over the last several years and only a couple have gotten better through their careers here. JB might end up on that growing list that stays flat. Another reason I think Lon should retire. Either he's not recruiting players capable of competing for the conference championship, or he's not coaching them into players capable of competing for the conference championship. I tend to believe it's the latter.