Who is most likely to be done after this season?

[NickZepp]

Is this a joke?

It's really not a comparison as far as talent goes. We had a ton more talent in Capel's first year than Sampson's first year if you look at the complete roster. Now we did have 1 better player when Sampson came in.

 

[Tony]

I doubt Crocker is back next year.

 

[brettromar]

I'd also bet you that Sampson's first 3 recruiting classes are better than Capel's. Griffin almost balances it out, but as far as on the court results, Sampson's first 3 classes were better than Capels.

The problem is, the program was much better off when Capel took over than when Sampson took over.

I don't completely agree with this.

Capel was stuck in a limited situation and a short recruiting season.

I am a bit vague on Sampson's situation but I do know that Capel did not have anyone on his first team that was close to the player that Ryan Minor was.

 

[DenverSooner]

If Gallon can improve his attitude, I'm all for him sticking around. The other 4 need to be given walking papers. WW can be a good player, but his attitude isn't meshing well and probably needs to go pro.

Allen, Willis, and Hardrick are all nice kids, I'm sure, but if they aren't good enough to garner playing time this year, they just aren't good enough.

My concern is if those 4 leave, who does Jeff get to replace them? He's shown a lack of scouting talent so far (overall), and I don't think any McD's AA's are waiting for OU to open up some scholarships.

You don't think any of those guys add any value to the team? Personally, I think Allen adds value even if he is nothing more than a practice player. Having a big 7 footer that has been in some games to practice against is valuable. I also think Ray Willis adds some value. He has two years of experience and at least knows how to practice. I have no real basis to comment on Hardrick but I tend to think Capel should honor the scholarship. Now if Capel were to sit down with all three guys and say I honestly don't see much playing time for you at this level and they elected to transfer I would have no problem with that. I just think there is a difference between being honest and allowing a kid to choose between transfering or primarily being a practice playr and forcing them out.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I don't completely agree with this.

Capel was stuck in a limited situation and a short recruiting season.

I am a bit vague on Sampson's situation but I do know that Capel did not have anyone on his first team that was close to the player that Ryan Minor was.

Capel's first three classes included:
Crocker -- solid player
Maze -- Limited offensively and defensively; gone; solid player at Tenn now
B. Griffin -- stud
Early -- Gone
Keith Clark -- solid player for 1 semester; gone
Cade Davis -- solid player
Leary -- solid backup player
Neysmith -- gone
Allen -- bad choice to this point
Cannon -- Gone
Patillo -- gone
Warren -- Unanimous Big 12 frosh of the year; disappointint soph year
Willis -- bad choice to this point
Wright -- solid backup player but limited offensively

Sampson's first 3 classes:
Abercrombie -- solid player
Antonio Bobo -- left after frosh year
Prince Fowler -- solid player but left after frosh year
Evan Wiley -- Solid inside player and 3 year starter
Michael Cotton -- decent player at OU but transferred to BC and was a solid player on a good Big East team.
Nate Erdmann -- Big 12 newcomer of the year; Very solid player for OU
Robert Allison -- solid player
Corey Brewer -- Big 12 newcomer of the year; Very solid player
Bobby Joe Evans -- solid player before career ending back injury
Tim Heskett -- part-time starter and solid player
Lou Moore -- solid player one year but got in trouble and was booted.
Eduardo Najera -- STUD
Renzi Stone -- 4 year starter; solid player even though limited offensively.

Capel had 1 POY (Wooden award), which is awesome, and 1 Big 12 FOY. None of the other players he's signed are even all big 12. Capel has 1 4 year starter in Crocker.

Sampson had 2 Big 12 newcomer's of the year, and a first team All Big 12 in Najera. Eddie may have even been Big 12 POY, but I don't think so. Sampson had three 4 year starters (Najera, Stone, Heskett -- didn't start every game but started a bunch), three 2 year juco transfer starters (Brewer, Erdmann, Abercrombie), and one 3 year starter in Wiley.

 

[152219]

It's really not a comparison as far as talent goes. We had a ton more talent in Capel's first year than Sampson's first year if you look at the complete roster. Now we did have 1 better player when Sampson came in.

Here is a quick comparison

Returning players for the '95 team (all juniors or seniors)
Dion Barnes
Calvin Curry
James Mayden
Ryan Minor
John Ontjes
Jason Yannish

Returning players for the '07 team (2 seniors, 2 juniors, and 2 sophomores)
Nate Carter
David Godbold
Taylor Griffin
Austin Johnson
Longar Longar
Michael Neal

 

[campbest]

Wasn't Abercrombie going to Wazzu when Kelvin was there but went JUCO to get out of his LOI after Kelvin came here?

I thought that was him but maybe I am thinking of someone else.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I don't completely agree with this.

Capel was stuck in a limited situation and a short recruiting season.

I am a bit vague on Sampson's situation but I do know that Capel did not have anyone on his first team that was close to the player that Ryan Minor was.

I was talking about the shape of the program. Sampson did have Minor, but if you remember Tubbs last recruiting class was loaded with 5 studs. Only one of them stayed at OU for 4 years, and he was a prop 42 so he lost his frosh year to grades so only played 3 years (Evan Wiley). Bobo and Fowler reaffirmed their commit to Sampson but only stayed 1 year and left. The other 2 guys said "no thanks", much like Reynolds and James. So Sampson signed Abercrombie, who was a nice pickup for the program.

OU wasn't on probation when Sampson took over, which is as he left it, but 2 straight NIT's and 3 of the previous 4 years were in the NIT. Also, you have to look at the facilities when Sampson took over and the athletic department overall. The football program was in shambles, and the LNC hadn't been touched since it was built in the mid 70's.

Capel steps into an athletic department that's at the top of the conference, the football program is booming, and the facilities were head and shoulders better than they were in the mid 90's.

 

[Big Old Booger]

You don't think any of those guys add any value to the team? Personally, I think Allen adds value even if he is nothing more than a practice player. Having a big 7 footer that has been in some games to practice against is valuable. I also think Ray Willis adds some value. He has two years of experience and at least knows how to practice. I have no real basis to comment on Hardrick but I tend to think Capel should honor the scholarship. Now if Capel were to sit down with all three guys and say I honestly don't see much playing time for you at this level and they elected to transfer I would have no problem with that. I just think there is a difference between being honest and allowing a kid to choose between transfering or primarily being a practice playr and forcing them out.

They add value, specifically Allen because he probably is a good practice player. Somewhat like Jason Yannish is who I'd compare him too.

Willis probably adds value too and possibly Hardrick. The problem is when you have a talent depleted roster you can't waste scholarships on players who have no chance of seeing playing time.

Just my thoughts.

 

[campbest]

I was talking about the shape of the program. Sampson did have Minor, but if you remember Tubbs last recruiting class was loaded with 5 studs. Only one of them stayed at OU for 4 years, and he was a prop 42 so he lost his frosh year to grades so only played 3 years (Evan Wiley). Bobo and Fowler reaffirmed their commit to Sampson but only stayed 1 year and left. The other 2 guys said "no thanks", much like Reynolds and James. So Sampson signed Abercrombie, who was a nice pickup for the program.

OU wasn't on probation when Sampson took over, which is as he left it, but 2 straight NIT's and 3 of the previous 4 years were in the NIT. Also, you have to look at the facilities when Sampson took over and the athletic department overall. The football program was in shambles, and the LNC hadn't been touched since it was built in the mid 70's.

Capel steps into an athletic department that's at the top of the conference, the football program is booming, and the facilities were head and shoulders better than they were in the mid 90's.

You can get to a NIT with a Ryan Minor...see Luke Harangody at ND.

 

[brettromar]

I was more arguing with the part about OU being in worse shape when Sampson took over.

I would take the guys Sampson had to start with over the guys Capel had to start with.
I would take John Ontjes over Austin Johnson.
Minor over all of them.
Dion Barnes wasn't too bad.
Calvin Curry had his moments.
He also had Prince Fowler who Tubbs got to come to OU. That is why he transferred after one year.

Shows you my memory, I thought Evan was a Tubbs recruit. I have trouble remembering years on guys once it gets over 10 years.


I would still take Sampson's first year than Capel's if that is the list of guys.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Wasn't Abercrombie going to Wazzu when Kelvin was there but went JUCO to get out of his LOI after Kelvin came here?

I thought that was him but maybe I am thinking of someone else.

Erdmann played for Sampson at Wazzu for 1 season then went JUCO for a year and signed with OU. He was a stud.

That team with him and Brewer was fun to watch. They had a tough matchup vs Stanford in the NCAA, who went on to the final 4.

Kelvin found Abercrombie at some JUCO and signed him at the last minute. I don't think anybody was recruiting Ernie, so he was a gem.

 

[Tony]

Wasn't Abercrombie going to Wazzu when Kelvin was there but went JUCO to get out of his LOI after Kelvin came here?

I thought that was him but maybe I am thinking of someone else.

Abercrombie was being recruited by Sampson at Wazzu out of junior college when he took the OU job.

I think you are thinking of Erdmann, who I do believe had signed with Washington State already.

Anybody remember Princeton Parks?

edit: or, what the post above mine said

 

[campbest]

Erdmann played for Sampson at Wazzu for 1 season then went JUCO for a year and signed with OU. He was a stud.

That team with him and Brewer was fun to watch. They had a tough matchup vs Stanford in the NCAA, who went on to the final 4.

Kelvin found Abercrombie at some JUCO and signed him at the last minute. I don't think anybody was recruiting Ernie, so he was a gem.

NM.

Tony's got my back.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I was more arguing with the part about OU being in worse shape when Sampson took over.

I would take the guys Sampson had to start with over the guys Capel had to start with.
I would take John Ontjes over Austin Johnson.
Minor over all of them.
Dion Barnes wasn't too bad.
Calvin Curry had his moments.
He also had Prince Fowler who Tubbs got to come to OU. That is why he transferred after one year.

Shows you my memory, I thought Evan was a Tubbs recruit. I have trouble remembering years on guys once it gets over 10 years.


I would still take Sampson's first year than Capel's if that is the list of guys.

I'd take Ontjes over AJ, but AJ was a solid player.
Minor over all of them, that is true.
Neal was better than Barnes.
Longar was better than Mayden.
Taylor Griffin was a better performer than every one of the Tubbs players except Minor and Ontjes.

If I were choosing a team of those players listed, I'd take:
PG -- Ontjes
2G -- Neal
SF -- Minor
PF -- T Griffin
C -- Longar

I'd then choose AJ, Nate Carter, Barnes and Godbold as backups.

I wasn't a big Curry fan...too many missed shots and dumb as dirt.

 

[campbest]

I'd take Ontjes over AJ, but AJ was a solid player.
Minor over all of them, that is true.
Neal was better than Barnes.
Longar was better than Mayden.
Taylor Griffin was a better performer than every one of the Tubbs players except Minor and Ontjes.

If I were choosing a team of those players listed, I'd take:
PG -- Ontjes
2G -- Neal
SF -- Minor
PF -- T Griffin
C -- Longar

I'd then choose AJ, Nate Carter, Barnes and Godbold as backups.

I wasn't a big Curry fan...too many missed shots and dumb as dirt.

What were Sampson's players classification? (senior, junior, etc.)

AJ and Taylor were both sophomores...big believer during a coaching change that you have to lean on your experience in the line-up.

 

[Big Old Booger]

What were Sampson's players classification? (senior, junior, etc.)

AJ and Taylor were both sophomores...big believer during a coaching change that you have to lean on your experience in the line-up.

Sampson:
Barnes -- Jr.
Curry -- Sr.
Mayden -- Sr.
Minor -- Jr.
Yannish -- Jr.
Ontjes -- Sr.

Capel:
Carter -- Sr.
Godbold -- Jr.
Griffin -- Soph
AJ -- Soph
Neal -- Sr.
Walker -- Sr.

 

[brettromar]

I would take Neal over those guys if he was healthy. His junior year he was better, senior year with the hand injuries he was not.

Curry could put up points quickly.

John as a senior was much better than AJ as a soph.
Minor as you said was hands down better than anyone on Capel's team.

I would take:
Fowler
Ontjes
Minor
Curry
Mayden

All day over the starting 5 Capel got.

Just my opinion though.

Question: I know Sampson didn't have the probabtion restrictions on his recruiting when he took over but when was he hired. I honestly can't remember in comparison to Jeff.

What hurt Jeff that first year in my opinion too was he didn't have much of a chance to bring in guys in that first class. He had to use what he had and it wasn't much. Anyone else he brought in was not going to be very good because he got a late start.

 

[campbest]

Sampson:
Barnes -- Jr.
Curry -- Sr.
Mayden -- Sr.
Minor -- Jr.
Yannish -- Jr.
Ontjes -- Sr.

Capel:
Carter -- Sr.
Godbold -- Jr.
Griffin -- Soph
AJ -- Soph
Neal -- Sr.
Walker -- Sr.

Capel should of played Carter more, that's a given.

Godbold - plenty of PT, got the most out of him.

Griffin and AJ - sophomores, got valuable experience...Griffin wasn't a shade of what he was as a senior.

Neal - injured hand all year, drastically effected his 3 pt %.

Walker - worked hard, but had no business in an OU uniform.

 

[campbest]

Question: I know Sampson didn't have the probabtion restrictions on his recruiting when he took over but when was he hired. I honestly can't remember in comparison to Jeff.

What hurt Jeff that first year in my opinion too was he didn't have much of a chance to bring in guys in that first class. He had to use what he had and it wasn't much. Anyone else he brought in was not going to be very good because he got a late start.

Good point...late signing period was already upon Capel.