Who is most likely to be done after this season?

[Big Old Booger]

I would take Neal over those guys if he was healthy. His junior year he was better, senior year with the hand injuries he was not.

Curry could put up points quickly.

John as a senior was much better than AJ as a soph.
Minor as you said was hands down better than anyone on Capel's team.

I would take:
Fowler
Ontjes
Minor
Curry
Mayden

All day over the starting 5 Capel got.

Just my opinion though.

Question: I know Sampson didn't have the probabtion restrictions on his recruiting when he took over but when was he hired. I honestly can't remember in comparison to Jeff.

What hurt Jeff that first year in my opinion too was he didn't have much of a chance to bring in guys in that first class. He had to use what he had and it wasn't much. Anyone else he brought in was not going to be very good because he got a late start.

Sampson was hired in 1994...fairly late in the year because Tubbs didn't take the TCU job until after the NCAA tourney was over. Both Capel and Sampson were hired fairly late in the recruiting season.

Sampson didn't have the time to bring in his own recruits either. He tried to keep the stud class Tubbs had put together, but 2 of the 5 didn't come, 2 of the 5 came for 1 year (Bobo and Fowler) and Wiley was prop 42 so he was ineligible his frosh year and only got to play 3 years. So, Sampson got Fowler and Bobo to reaffirm, even though they left, then he picked up Abercrombie who another poster said was about to sign with Wazzu before Sampson took the OU job.

**Tubbs last class was very highly rated, much like Sampson's last class. Both were 5 HS players, and all were highly rated prospects. So, the situations are very similar.

 

[NickZepp]

The only reason we weren't at least an NIT type team Capel's first year was because Nate Carter didn't play till half the season as over. Have Nate Carter play big minutes in ever game we win at least one or two more out of conference games and are probably a more confident team in conference and win at least one or two more games in conference.

 

[Big Old Booger]

The only reason we weren't at least an NIT type team Capel's first year was because Nate Carter didn't play till half the season as over. Have Nate Carter play big minutes in ever game we win at least one or two more out of conference games and are probably a more confident team in conference and win at least one or two more games in conference.

I'd agree with that.

 

[Tony]

The only reason we weren't at least an NIT type team Capel's first year was because Nate Carter didn't play till half the season as over.

?

 

[NickZepp]

?

The first half of the season Carter averaged something like 4 points a game and 3 boards in limited minutes. Once he got serious minutes he got 16 points and 6 or 7 boards a game. Give a team a real go to guy that team changes. This year would have been saved if we had a go to guy all year. I said before the year started we needed Willie to be that guy but he wasn't. At times this year TMG was our go to guy, Gallon was our go to guy, Warren was our go to guy early. Cade or Tony would have break out games once in a while and be go to guys. But we never had one go to guy. Give a team one guy they can rely on that makes a team so much better.

 

[brettromar]

Sampson was hired in 1994...fairly late in the year because Tubbs didn't take the TCU job until after the NCAA tourney was over. Both Capel and Sampson were hired fairly late in the recruiting season.

Sampson didn't have the time to bring in his own recruits either. He tried to keep the stud class Tubbs had put together, but 2 of the 5 didn't come, 2 of the 5 came for 1 year (Bobo and Fowler) and Wiley was prop 42 so he was ineligible his frosh year and only got to play 3 years. So, Sampson got Fowler and Bobo to reaffirm, even though they left, then he picked up Abercrombie who another poster said was about to sign with Wazzu before Sampson took the OU job.

**Tubbs last class was very highly rated, much like Sampson's last class. Both were 5 HS players, and all were highly rated prospects. So, the situations are very similar.

Thanks I couldn't remember the exact timing for Sampson.
Ernie was a huge pickup for Sampson.
Maybe Capel should have gotten that guard from VCU to go juco and come to OU like Erdman. That would have helped.

 

[Tony]

The first half of the season Carter averaged something like 4 points a game and 3 boards in limited minutes.

I thought you were saying he didn't play at all the first half of the season.

In any event, I simply disagree. You are assuming that had Capel just played Nate Carter more during the first half of the season would have been the Nate Carter of the second. I think it's far more likely that somewhere along the way, things just clicked for Carter. He got better and forced his way into the lineup.

It is a truly weird defense of a coach to say that he did not realize who his best player was for half a season. That sounds more like an indictment of a coach to me.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Thanks I couldn't remember the exact timing for Sampson.
Ernie was a huge pickup for Sampson.
Maybe Capel should have gotten that guard from VCU to go juco and come to OU like Erdman. That would have helped.

To Capel's credit, he isn't slimy like Sampson was, and I was a Sampson fan just like I'm a Capel fan.

We benefitted from Sampson's slimy-ness with Erdmann and Abercrombie and the exhorbitant amount of phone calls. However, it was ultimately a detriment to us because we got placed on probation.

 

[seniorsooner]

To Capel's credit, he isn't slimy like Sampson was, and I was a Sampson fan just like I'm a Capel fan.

We benefitted from Sampson's slimy-ness with Erdmann and Abercrombie and the exhorbitant amount of phone calls. However, it was ultimately a detriment to us because we got placed on probation.

Aaaaaaand we're off.

 

[152219]

Wasn't Abercrombie going to Wazzu when Kelvin was there but went JUCO to get out of his LOI after Kelvin came here?

I thought that was him but maybe I am thinking of someone else.

I know that Erdmann transferred from Wazzu to OU with Sampson, so I don't consider him a "recruit"

Just like if a player like Eric Maynor would have transferred to OU from VCU.

 

[oSuJeff97]

The only reason we weren't at least an NIT type team Capel's first year was because Nate Carter didn't play till half the season as over. Have Nate Carter play big minutes in ever game we win at least one or two more out of conference games and are probably a more confident team in conference and win at least one or two more games in conference.

Come on, Nick.

OU was in perfectly good position to at least make the NIT more than halfway through the conference season. After 10 games in conference that year, OU was sitting pretty at 15-8 (6-4).

All they had to do was literally win one or two more games and they would have been a lock for at least the NIT.

Instead, they lost 6 straight games to finish 6-10... and this was with Nate Carter playing big minutes.

Don't tell me that Nate Carter playing more during the non-conference would have meant one or two more wins down the stretch.

The team was plenty comfortable with the way things were going 10 games into the conference season. Had they not face-planted down the stretch, they could have easily made the NCAA tournament... to say nothing of making the NIT.

 

[152219]

Abercrombie -- solid playerAgreed....better than a "solid" player
Antonio Bobo -- left after frosh year Didn't do anything at OU
Prince Fowler -- solid player but left after frosh year Didn't do anything at OU
Evan Wiley -- Solid inside player and 3 year starter Had a nice senior year
Michael Cotton -- decent player at OU Did nothing at OU...around 2 ppg
Nate Erdmann -- Big 12 newcomer of the year; Very solid player for OU Transfer from Wazzu, not a "recruit"
Robert Allison -- solid player Not a solid player, average at best role player
Corey Brewer -- Big 12 newcomer of the year; Very solid player All Big 12, better than very solid
Bobby Joe Evans -- solid player before career ending back injury Didn't get to do much, again, because of injuries. Not a "solid" player though. Good guy
Tim Heskett -- part-time starter and solid player Solid player
Lou Moore -- solid player one year but got in trouble and was booted. Yep, solid 1 yaer and then booted
Eduardo Najera -- STUD Stud....have some funny stories about his studliness, but not for this board
Renzi Stone -- 4 year starter; solid player even though limited offensively. Only started 1 game his freshman year FWIW, and averged 4 ppg and 4 rpg in his 4 years...limited role player

Definitely think you over-estimated the worth of many of those guys

 

[NickZepp]

That stretch was tough anyway. They should have beat Iowa State then there was one other home game they probably should have won(Kansas I think) but going better than 2-4 in that stretch was going to be tough. They might have beat an Oklahoma State on the road that year with a lot more confidence. Could have beat a Purdue early in the season. That's 2 wins a more confident team gets. Confidence makes a team so much better. It could have been a difference from a team ending 0-6 and winning 5 out of 6.

 

[152219]

What were Sampson's players classification? (senior, junior, etc.)

AJ and Taylor were both sophomores...big believer during a coaching change that you have to lean on your experience in the line-up.

I already posted it...ALL of them were juniors and seniors

 

[NMSooner'80]

FWIW - Nate Erdmann signed with Washington State out of high school (Portales, NM) and redshirted as a true freshman. He had to go JC to transfer to OU without losing a year.

He did play one year at WSU (for Kelvin's successor) before going to the JC in Kansas, then transferring to OU. I don't think Maynor could have done that at OU, without having to redshirt.

 

[152219]

FWIW - Nate Erdmann signed with Washington State out of high school (Portales, NM) and redshirted as a true freshman. He had to go JC to transfer to OU without losing a year.

He did play one year at WSU (for Kelvin's successor) before going to the JC in Kansas, then transferring to OU. I don't think Maynor could have done that at OU, without having to redshirt.

How I understand it is that Erdmann went to Hutch so he didn't have to sit out a year....Sampson essentially set it up for a year of JUCO and then back with him at OU.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Abercrombie -- solid playerAgreed....better than a "solid" player
Antonio Bobo -- left after frosh year Didn't do anything at OU
Prince Fowler -- solid player but left after frosh year Didn't do anything at OU
Evan Wiley -- Solid inside player and 3 year starter Had a nice senior year
Michael Cotton -- decent player at OU Did nothing at OU...around 2 ppg
Nate Erdmann -- Big 12 newcomer of the year; Very solid player for OU Transfer from Wazzu, not a "recruit"
Robert Allison -- solid player Not a solid player, average at best role player
Corey Brewer -- Big 12 newcomer of the year; Very solid player All Big 12, better than very solid
Bobby Joe Evans -- solid player before career ending back injury Didn't get to do much, again, because of injuries. Not a "solid" player though. Good guy
Tim Heskett -- part-time starter and solid player Solid player
Lou Moore -- solid player one year but got in trouble and was booted. Yep, solid 1 yaer and then booted
Eduardo Najera -- STUD Stud....have some funny stories about his studliness, but not for this board
Renzi Stone -- 4 year starter; solid player even though limited offensively. Only started 1 game his freshman year FWIW, and averged 4 ppg and 4 rpg in his 4 years...limited role player

Definitely think you over-estimated the worth of many of those guys

Fowler started some of his freshman year and played a lot. He ended up being a good player for Billy at TCU. He had an impact on the team that year. He started 25 games and played 679 minutes that year, so he had something to do with the success of that team.

Wiley started 5 games that season, then started all 30 games in 96 and 28 of 32 in 97. His sr. year was definitely his best year, but he was a big body who got some rebounds, altered some shots, and played some defense. He would get a lot of minutes on the team this year.

Whether you like it or not, Erdmann is a recruit. He was "recruited" to OU by Sampson so he counts. Semantics can't change that.

Evans had a decent frosh year...he was the 6th leading scorer on the team, started 13 games and played in 28. Had he been around in 99 when we made the sweet 16 run, that team may have gone a few rounds further. He would have been a STUD if not for the injury.

Allison played a lot his jr and sr years, even started 13 games his jr year and 20 games his sr. year. Was the 2nd leading 3 point shooter on the team behind Erdmann his jr. year and Brewer his sr. year. He was more than a "role" player. He was a better shooter than Cade Davis is right now. Cade has a better overall game, though.

Stone had a limited game offensively, but was pressed into playing time when Evans went down with the injury. He should have only been a role player, but with Evans out and Avila didn't pan out as we hoped so Stone was forced to play more than he should have. Having said that, he'd help this team a lot. He was better inside than Wright or Allen, and probably better than Fitzgerald although Fitz is a better shooter by a long shot (no pun intended).

 

[152219]

Fowler started some of his freshman year and played a lot. He ended up being a good player for Billy at TCU. He had an impact on the team that year. He started 25 games and played 679 minutes that year, so he had something to do with the success of that team.

Wiley started 5 games that season, then started all 30 games in 96 and 28 of 32 in 97. His sr. year was definitely his best year, but he was a big body who got some rebounds, altered some shots, and played some defense. He would get a lot of minutes on the team this year.

Whether you like it or not, Erdmann is a recruit. He was "recruited" to OU by Sampson so he counts. Semantics can't change that.

Evans had a decent frosh year...he was the 6th leading scorer on the team, started 13 games and played in 28. Had he been around in 99 when we made the sweet 16 run, that team may have gone a few rounds further. He would have been a STUD if not for the injury.

Allison played a lot his jr and sr years, even started 13 games his jr year and 20 games his sr. year. Was the 2nd leading 3 point shooter on the team behind Erdmann his jr. year and Brewer his sr. year. He was more than a "role" player. He was a better shooter than Cade Davis is right now. Cade has a better overall game, though.

Stone had a limited game offensively, but was pressed into playing time when Evans went down with the injury. He should have only been a role player, but with Evans out and Avila didn't pan out as we hoped so Stone was forced to play more than he should have. Having said that, he'd help this team a lot. He was better inside than Wright or Allen, and probably better than Fitzgerald although Fitz is a better shooter by a long shot (no pun intended).

Fowler averaged a little over 6 ppg...shot under 40% from the field, very few rebounds, assist:turnover ratio close to 1, etc. He wasn't a bad player, but he was nothing more than a bit player. (Pledger's numbers are quite similar).

Erdmann's situation is far from semantics.

Evans' freshman year was okay...nothing special. Slightly better than Fitzgerald's. His injuries make his career a big unknown.

Allison's best year was his senior year and he averaged 6.3 ppg. LOL at thinking he was anything but a role player and an average on at that. Cade Davis will have had a better career.

Stone was nothing but a gap filler.

Like I said, you way overestimate many of these guys.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Fowler averaged a little over 6 ppg...shot under 40% from the field, very few rebounds, assist:turnover ratio close to 1, etc. He wasn't a bad player, but he was nothing more than a bit player. (Pledger's numbers are quite similar).

Erdmann's situation is far from semantics.

Evans' freshman year was okay...nothing special. Slightly better than Fitzgerald's. His injuries make his career a big unknown.

Allison's best year was his senior year and he averaged 6.3 ppg. LOL at thinking he was anything but a role player and an average on at that. Cade Davis will have had a better career.

Stone was nothing but a gap filler.

Like I said, you way overestimate many of these guys.

You underestimate Fowler, and I probably overestimate Allison, although I think he's a better shooter than Cade. Like I said, Cade is a more complete player, though, and I agree Cade will have a better career.

The original intent of me listing all of Sampson's recruits was to point out that Sampson's first 3 recruiting classes were better than Capel's, who everybody claims is such a great recruiter. Regardless of how much I overestimated Stone, Allison, and maybe Evans, the point is right now all 3 would be playing this year because Capel has had so many misses (early, Maze, Willis, Allen, Cannon, Patillo, etc.).

 

[oSuJeff97]

That stretch was tough anyway. They should have beat Iowa State then there was one other home game they probably should have won(Kansas I think) but going better than 2-4 in that stretch was going to be tough. They might have beat an Oklahoma State on the road that year with a lot more confidence. Could have beat a Purdue early in the season. That's 2 wins a more confident team gets. Confidence makes a team so much better. It could have been a difference from a team ending 0-6 and winning 5 out of 6.

That's just excuse making.

The team was plenty confident to get them to 15-8 (6-4). Even with that tough stretch, they should have won at least one of those games. That's probably all it would have required to get in the NIT.

And on this Nate Carter issue -- did it ever occur to you that Capel didn't play him early on because he wasn't good enough? Players do improve throughout the year. Look at Matt Pilgrim for OSU this year.

If he was starting for us early in the year and playing like he is right now, I seriously doubt we would have lost to Tulsa, Rhode Island and OU.... but guess what... he wasn't starting and playing as many minutes because he just wasn't playing as well back then. He improved.

That's why you can't say something like, "if Nate Carter got more minutes early in the year we would have won x more games..."

Becuase the issue is that if he wasn't playing well early on (like Pilgrim for OSU this year), then giving him more minutes would have actually hurt the team and may have actually led to more losses and less confidence.