Woodard Cousins battle

[sooner 1234]

Hey we started a 2 guard last year that was a bad defender, couldn't handle the ball and was either on fire or cold as ice......... This as a sr.

Could cousins really be a huge drop off??

Basketball isn't just scoring, when pledger wasn't hitting what else did he really bring to our team?

 

[WTSooner]

Basketball isn't just scoring, when pledger wasn't hitting what else did he really bring to our team?

Respect.

Pledger still demanded attention, which created space for Osby, M'Baye, and anybody else who might have been scoring that game. Opponents didn't have to respect too many of our shooters from behind the arc. Pledger created space simply by being on the court. That is why on occasion Kruger would stick him in the corner, and let somebody else go to work. That space that Pledger created should have made it easier for the other four OU players to operate.

And let's not pretend like Pledger did NOTHING else on the court. Over a 10 game stretch in the middle of conference play, he had four games with between 3-5 assists in each. He had a 9 rebound game against OSU, an 8 rebound game against WVU on Senior Night, and 6 rebounds in our win over KU.

 

[sharp1]

Hey we started a 2 guard last year that was a bad defender, couldn't handle the ball and was either on fire or cold as ice......... This as a sr.

Could cousins really be a huge drop off??

Basketball isn't just scoring, when pledger wasn't hitting what else did he really bring to our team?

I guess my question is ...as a life long college basketball fan...I've never seen a SENIOR pg replaced by a freshman... please exclude "John wall, Derrick Rose, and Tyreke Evans" by a player who was a shooting guard in high school...Sam Grooms lead the conf in assist to turnover ratio, 2nd in assist and was ranked nationally in both categories...Bobby Knight said..."The best thing about freshman is, they become juniors" You just cant do that...we couldn't score with him at point, there was zero "continuity" on offence...

 

[sharp1]

Are you just wanting to argue? Cousins was the starting point guard on his high school state championship team. He led his team in scoring, assist, and steals.

What is Kruger suppose to do? They practice 6 days a week for 3+ hours per. Kruger told his players for months that no starting job was guaranteed. He told them that everyone was starting out even and the starters would have to earn their spots.

Cousins was clearly the best player early on. It wasn't close. Cousins was bigger, stronger, faster. He was the better ball handler and the better shooter and the better defender. Cousins has a talent and ceiling that far exceeds Grooms. A coach can't say one thing then do another and have credibility with his team.

As the season wore along Gooms replaced Cousins after Hornbeak briefly replaced Cousins. Buddy replaced Honrbeak as a starter. There is nothing curious about that at all. Players evolve, devolve, plateau, peak, and stagnate continually through a long season. When Kruger made the call at the beginning of the season, it was the right call and there wasn't anything fishy about it.

I watched the practices online like most of you...That change surprised me...There was no way he deserved to beat Sam out, none...My thought was ...M'baye will start over Fitz...Cam and Buddy will split time at the 3...with cam and Fitz playing some 4

 

[garyeb2]

I watched the practices online like most of you...That change surprised me...There was no way he deserved to beat Sam out, none...My thought was ...M'baye will start over Fitz...Cam and Buddy will split time at the 3...with cam and Fitz playing some 4

I've said this before. That is what makes horse racing, a difference of opinion. What wasn't obvious to you was obvious to others. All through the preseason practices and inter squad scrimmages and exhibition games Cousins simply outperformed Grooms.

When I argued extensively last year that there would be at least 3 new starters and least 2 of them would be freshmen, I was simply taking Kruger at his word when he said everyone was starting even and starts would be earned in practice. The five players that were starters early on last season were simply the 5 players that had performed the best to that point. I'm sorry. But, that was more than obvious to anyone sitting in the practice gym.

Take that infamous scrimmage in the old field house that so many tried to dismiss as having no meaning. You know, the one where the Kruger recruits spanked the returning starters. Cousins hit three 3 pt. shots and played masterfully on both ends of the court in those 20 min. Grooms looked lost, overmatched and couldn't guard a faster Cousins. Based on the criteria that Kruger laid out. Cousins more than earned the chance to be the starting point guard.

When questioned about starters and rotations Kruger said, and I'm quoting. "I don't have an agenda, I'm just trying to win basketball games."

 

[sdcloud9]

Cousins will start, imo with Woodard playing limited minutes but I would not be surprised to see Woodard push him at some point.

I know Cousins is young but he makes mistakes in bunches and that's not a good habit for a point guard.

Have to love his athleticism, once he develops a better feel for the game, he'll be fine.

I think both are going to be good players.

 

[WTSooner]

I've said this before. That is what makes horse racing, a difference of opinion. What wasn't obvious to you was obvious to others. All through the preseason practices and inter squad scrimmages and exhibition games Cousins simply outperformed Grooms.

When I argued extensively last year that there would be at least 3 new starters and least 2 of them would be freshmen, I was simply taking Kruger at his word when he said everyone was starting even and starts would be earned in practice. The five players that were starters early on last season were simply the 5 players that had performed the best to that point. I'm sorry. But, that was more than obvious to anyone sitting in the practice gym.

Take that infamous scrimmage in the old field house that so many tried to dismiss as having no meaning. You know, the one where the Kruger recruits spanked the returning starters. Cousins hit three 3 pt. shots and played masterfully on both ends of the court in those 20 min. Grooms looked lost, overmatched and couldn't guard a faster Cousins. Based on the criteria that Kruger laid out. Cousins more than earned the chance to be the starting point guard.

When questioned about starters and rotations Kruger said, and I'm quoting. "I don't have an agenda, I'm just trying to win basketball games."

You also made it VERY clear that Pledger was outperformed during that period of time as well, yet he started every game.

It's not as black and white as you try to make it.

 

[garyeb2]

You also made it VERY clear that Pledger was outperformed during that period of time as well, yet he started every game.

It's not as black and white as you try to make it.

If you want to say that Grooms proved out to be a better option over the course of the season than Cousins. Then say that. You won't get any blowback from me. If you want to say that Cousin didn't outperform Grooms thru the preseason practices and exhibition game, then I'm going to say you don't have the first clue what you are talking about again. You weren't there. You didn't see it. You don't have a clue.

Now, you need to go back and look up what I said about Pledger during that time frame and post it to refresh both our memories. My recollection is that I was pretty complimentary of Pledger during that time frame. I noted that he had lost weight during the off season conditioning and complimented him on that. I also noted that he seemed to have brought a higher level of intensity to practice than in the previous season. I noted that.

As matter of fact I went out of my way to cut Pledger some slack when I was writing those practice reports. I knew things that you didn't know at that point in time. I knew that Buddy had the talent to start but, they weren't going to throw him for several games into the season. He was having trouble getting his defensive rotations and assignments down. They wanted him almost right before they started him.

The competition for the starting #3 guard was between Pledger and Cam. it was close. Closer than you think. It was so close that Pledger didn't know. I was a practice that day several days before the start of the season when the kids came out of the meeting Kruger set his initial starting lineup. Pledger was ecstatic, glowing, and bouncing around like a kid when he got the news. That is the competition that was close. Not the Cousins vs Grooms. I don't like Pledger and I do like Cam. But, I never predicted Cam or anyone else would start over Pledger.

My prediction on the starting lineup was just exactly what I said it was. There would be at least 3 new starters and at least 2 of them would be freshmen. My hope was that there would be 4 new starters and 3 of them would freshman. Don't try to confuse and conflate those two when trying to make an argument.

 

[nikebasketball]

What i remember hearing is exactly what Gary is saying. I know i just become a member a couple months ago but i have been reading it for a few years.

 

[garyeb2]

Where are you WT? It has been 3 hours now. Let's get those practice reports of mine pulled up and posted so that you can validate that I was VERY clear that Pledger was being outperformed during those pre season practices.

I'm old, my recollections could be off. About the only thing I think I remember is that almost 2 yrs. back, I wasn't just the 1st one on the Grooms bandwagon, for weeks I was the Grooms bandwagon. I argued and argued with you and a handful of others because you were certain that a JC transfer couldn't come in here and beat out the great Carl Blair. And of course, I was an idiot for thinking that he could.

And then all season long that year I argued for and defended Grooms against your accusations that every shortcoming and deficiency of Pledger's was some how Grooms fault. I'm not the Grooms basher here. You are. I've been accurate and fair with anything I've said about Grooms since he got here. I was accurate and fair with my evaluation of Grooms preseason practice performance.

 

[Laxtothemax12]

Who would've thought that this "battle" would have two starting winners here?!?! Seemed like a perfect fit when you throw in Buddy as the 3rd guard along with them. I miss that trio