13-15 ouch!!!!!!!!

[Big Old Booger]

It's not that hard to understand. Recruiting classes are judged prior to them ever stepping foot on campus. It has been that way since services like scout/rivals came into existence. The so-called experts view the POTENTIAL of the signees, and then they make a list of top recruiting classes.

No one knows if those players wil pan out or not. For every Blake Griffin, who by the way had alot less fans around here during his frosh yr then he does now, there are big busts across the nation. Busts that rate highly, and for whatever reason they never materialize or meet their potential.

Before Tiny/Pledger/TMG/WW got on campus, everyone was hailing Capel as a recruiting guru, based on the POTENTIAL of those players. Too sit here AFTER seeing those young guys struggle, and say that Capel has done nothing in recruiting, is either guys who secretly want him to fail for obvious reasons related to another former coach, or not being very honest.

I loved Tubbs, and I loved Sampson. I now love Capel because I love whoever the University of Oklahoma trots out. I can't believe that most everyone who was happy about the POTENTIAL of the recruits, is now saying that the guy can't recruit.....
What will be the sentiment if Cam/TJ come in and play at a high level??? Will Capel all of a sudden be labelled a great recruiter, AGAIN?????

First, I wasn't happy about the "potential" of the recruiting classes because I've seen highly ranked recruits come to Norman before and not pan out (Angelo Hamilton, Bobby Joe Evans (although he had a career-ending injury), the transfer from Kentucky that lasted 1 season, etc.). So, I've learned to wait until they show results on the court before I start crowning the recruiter as the "greatest of all time".

Potential means nothing. Results mean something. WW, Tiny, and TMG have potential, but not results. WW had some results we thought last year, but his attitude reared it's ugly head a few games and he just went thru the motions. TMG has started to show some results, or he did for a 5 game stretch, but since then he's been too inconsistent and he couldn't defend Al Eschbach.

Personally, I'd rather we had a coach who recruited the kind of players that win games. As Herm Edwards said:

You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game.

All the people crowing on here about how great of a recruiter he is remind me of Texas fans and their recruiting national championships every year. Everybody ripped Mack Brown for being a great recruiter but he "can't win the big one". At least Mack was winning 90% of his games per year with those great recruiting classes. I'd take 60% at this point.

If you guys are happy with "great" recruiting classes and "big time, top-notch recruits" who can't win games at the college level, then far be it from me to try and convince you otherwise.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

First, I wasn't happy about the "potential" of the recruiting classes because I've seen highly ranked recruits come to Norman before and not pan out (Angelo Hamilton, Bobby Joe Evans (although he had a career-ending injury), the transfer from Kentucky that lasted 1 season, etc.). So, I've learned to wait until they show results on the court before I start crowning the recruiter as the "greatest of all time".

Potential means nothing. Results mean something. WW, Tiny, and TMG have potential, but not results. WW had some results we thought last year, but his attitude reared it's ugly head a few games and he just went thru the motions. TMG has started to show some results, or he did for a 5 game stretch, but since then he's been too inconsistent and he couldn't defend Al Eschbach.

Personally, I'd rather we had a coach who recruited the kind of players that win games. As Herm Edwards said:



All the people crowing on here about how great of a recruiter he is remind me of Texas fans and their recruiting national championships every year. Everybody ripped Mack Brown for being a great recruiter but he "can't win the big one". At least Mack was winning 90% of his games per year with those great recruiting classes. I'd take 60% at this point.

If you guys are happy with "great" recruiting classes and "big time, top-notch recruits" who can't win games at the college level, then far be it from me to try and convince you otherwise.

yawn...you still don't get the point people are trying to make. And for the record Tiny has played good for a frosh, TMG has played great for a frosh, and WW has been hampered with injuries. They were all great gets by capel

 

[Big Old Booger]

yawn...you still don't get the point people are trying to make. And for the record Tiny has played good for a frosh, TMG has played great for a frosh, and WW has been hampered with injuries. They were all great gets by capel

Your right. They were all such great gets that they've led us to a 13-15 season a 6 game losing streak and after next weekend that record will probably be 13-18 and a 9 game losing streak. Not to mention almost all those losses have been by double-digits so the games weren't really even close.

You have definitely convinced me they were all great gets. I can only hope we get 3 more just like them that lead us to another great season like this one next year. :dance005:

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Your right. They were all such great gets that they've led us to a 13-15 season a 6 game losing streak and after next weekend that record will probably be 13-18 and a 9 game losing streak. Not to mention almost all those losses have been by double-digits so the games weren't really even close.

You have definitely convinced me they were all great gets. I can only hope we get 3 more just like them that lead us to another great season like this one next year. :dance005:

they are great individual players. they just aren't a great team. I thought we were talking about the players not the team.

 

[Big Old Booger]

they are great individual players. they just aren't a great team. I thought we were talking about the players not the team.

Is this wrestling or basketball? In wrestling, you can be a great individual player and excel. The last time I checked, basketball is a team sport.

I don't care if they are great individual players, but I question even that. So, you are saying Capel is a great recruiter, but a horrible coach?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Is this wrestling or basketball? In wrestling, you can be a great individual player and excel. The last time I checked, basketball is a team sport.

I don't care if they are great individual players, but I question even that. So, you are saying Capel is a great recruiter, but a horrible coach?

great recruiter...yes. Horrible coach...no.

He just hasn't done a good job of getting through to these guys.

 

[campbest]

Experience trumps all...you have to have the right juniors and seniors in place in order to bring the pups along. Capel has done a great job of bringing in "highly rated talent" but hasn't been able to get the guys sub-100 who are four year players. Really do believe Pledger will be the first in line to fit this mold.

Leadership is a key component, tough for a freshman/sophomore to take the reins, we are seeing that now. Interesting note, may have misheard on the ESPN broadcast, but I believe none of Syracuse's normal starters were ranked in the Top 100. Who thought they would be better without Donte Green, Paul Harris and Johnny Flynn?

 

[Big Old Booger]

great recruiter...yes. Horrible coach...no.

He just hasn't done a good job of getting through to these guys.

You can't have it both ways. If he's a great recruiter and the team is currently 13-15 with 3 "top notch, big time" stars and probably going to end the season on a 9 game losing streak, then he's a horrible coach.

You tell me which one it is and you have to be honest. Personally, I don't think he's a horrible coach, I think he's not that good of a recruiter. Too many misses and I mean bad misses (Cannon, Early, Neysmith, Willis, Allen, Hardrick, Patillo, etc.), and the supposed good players he's recruiter aren't as good as they were ranked.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

You can't have it both ways.

yes I can. not everything in life is black and white, cut and dry.

I guess Roy Williams is a horrible coach

 

[Big Old Booger]

yes I can. not everything in life is black and white, cut and dry.

I guess Roy Williams is a horrible coach

Well, he's had 1 bad year in the last 21 seasons as a head coach. If that's what you want to label him for 1 year then that's fine. The difference between Williams and Capel is 2 NC's and multiple final 4's for Williams and nada in those categories for Capel.

I would bet you Williams would win more than 13 games with this team.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Well, he's had 1 bad year in the last 21 seasons as a head coach. If that's what you want to label him for 1 year then that's fine. The difference between Williams and Capel is 2 NC's and multiple final 4's for Williams and nada in those categories for Capel.

I would bet you Williams would win more than 13 games with this team.

wait, surely you can't be a great recruiter and still go 15-14 in a year with so much talent...thats not possible. It has to be one of the other. Either he is not a great recruiter or he is a horrible coach. Which is it?

the point is that you can't just look at the talent and the record and make assumptions like you do. there are other things that go into a season.

 

[Big Old Booger]

wait, surely you can't be a great recruiter and still go 15-14 in a year with so much talent...thats not possible. It has to be one of the other. Either he is not a great recruiter or he is a horrible coach. Which is it?

the point is that you can't just look at the talent and the record and make assumptions like you do. there are other things that go into a season.

15-14 in the ACC is a lot better than 13-15 in the Big 12. I'd take that 15-14 any day of the week over what we have now. Especially when you consider we only play KU one time, and play Baylor, Tech, osu, and aTm twice.

Again, you can't compare OU to UNC because they are different situations.

You also have to remember Roy won the NC last year with a senior-laden team. Big difference from our situation.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

15-14 in the ACC is a lot better than 13-15 in the Big 12. I'd take that 15-14 any day of the week over what we have now. Especially when you consider we only play KU one time, and play Baylor, Tech, osu, and aTm twice.

Again, you can't compare OU to UNC because they are different situations.

You also have to remember Roy won the NC last year with a senior-laden team. Big difference from our situation.

man you are dense. you have a really hard time of seeing people's points.

So its ok to look at other factors that could have affected the way that UNC's season has gone. But if you look at the issues and factors that have affected OU's season it is cut and dry. Stop being a hypocrite.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Booger, with all due respect, it is obvious that we are viewing this topic from different perspectives. I doubt that anyone here has said that Capel has done a great job this yr, and for sure no one is happy with how the top recruits have faired to date, but please do not sit here and act like recruiting rankings are not big to MOST people in all of the major sports. Heck, the major sports tv networks all have their own hs recruiting shows for hoops and football.

Again, no one knows how good any class will be. You spoke about waiting until the players play before passing judgement. Well of course that removes the need for all that goes into recruiting talk. I gurantee you that recruiting services pass judgement on a class long before the class hits campus. Sometimes they nail it, other times they miss badly. Capel went after several highly regarded recruits, and he got them. That is why people began to mention him as an expert recruiter. Alot of big time schools were after WW, TMG, and Tiny. I guess that none of those coaches had a clue that those guys would struggle with personal/team issues either, because everyone was after them. To sit here and act like Capel failed as a recruiter, AFTER seeing how those guys panned out is simply not being fair, IMO.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

To sit here an act like Capel failed as a recruiter, AFTER seeing how those guys panned out is simply not being fair, IMO.

Exactly. I suppose that if Capel missed on TMG and Tiny, Booger would be on here saying how horrible of a recruiter Capel is b/c he missed out on 2 McD AAs.

 

[cfin5256]

Booger, with all due respect, it is obvious that we are viewing this topic from different perspectives. I doubt that anyone here has said that Capel has done a great job this yr, and for sure no one is happy with how the top recruits have faired to date, but please do not sit here and act like recruiting rankings are not big to MOST people in all of the major sports. Heck, the major sports tv networks all have their own hs recruiting shows for hoops and football.

Again, no one knows how good any class will be. You spoke about waiting until the players play before passing judgement. Well of course that removes the need for all that goes into recruiting talk. I gurantee you that recruiting services pass judgement on a class long before the class hits campus. Sometimes they nail it, other times they miss badly. Capel went after several highly regarded recruits, and he got them. That is why people began to mention him as an expert recruiter. Alot of big time schools were after WW, TMG, and Tiny. I guess that none of those coaches had a clue that those guys would struggle with personal/team issues either, because everyone was after them. To sit here and act like Capel failed as a recruiter, AFTER seeing how those guys panned out is simply not being fair, IMO.

Very well said.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Exactly. I suppose that if Capel missed on TMG and Tiny, Booger would be on here saying how horrible of a recruiter Capel is b/c he missed out on 2 McD AAs.

It reminds me of the football crowd over on the OF board. After Bomar played average football his 2nd yr, everyone was raving about how he would win the next heisman, etc. After he took the money and exposed himself as a selfish cheater, alot of the regulars bashed Stoops for not recruiting a better character guy.....

Sometimes it is obvious that a kid will not fit in with your program. Other times it isn't so obvious, and most good coaches believe that they can get the most out of a kid no matter what problems he or she has shown in HS.

If a player ranks as a Mickey D's AA, almost all coaches will take a chance on them and sign them, hoping that they mature in college. Our guys may still pan out, and everyone will crown Capel again.....

 

[campbest]

If a player ranks as a Mickey D's AA, almost all coaches will take a chance on them and sign them, hoping that they mature in college. Our guys may still pan out, and everyone will crown Capel again.....

There is no doubt in my mind if TMG, Tiny, Pledger and Fitz stick around that they will pan out.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Booger, with all due respect, it is obvious that we are viewing this topic from different perspectives. I doubt that anyone here has said that Capel has done a great job this yr, and for sure no one is happy with how the top recruits have faired to date, but please do not sit here and act like recruiting rankings are not big to MOST people in all of the major sports. Heck, the major sports tv networks all have their own hs recruiting shows for hoops and football.

Again, no one knows how good any class will be. You spoke about waiting until the players play before passing judgement. Well of course that removes the need for all that goes into recruiting talk. I gurantee you that recruiting services pass judgement on a class long before the class hits campus. Sometimes they nail it, other times they miss badly. Capel went after several highly regarded recruits, and he got them. That is why people began to mention him as an expert recruiter. Alot of big time schools were after WW, TMG, and Tiny. I guess that none of those coaches had a clue that those guys would struggle with personal/team issues either, because everyone was after them. To sit here and act like Capel failed as a recruiter, AFTER seeing how those guys panned out is simply not being fair, IMO.

Listen, I see what you are saying. My point is, everybody knew WW was a headcase and because of this he wasn't recruited by everybody (UT to name one). Tiny was a McD's AA, but look at who he picked OU over -- Cal and Miss State...2 decent programs.

Also, it's obvious now that Tiny was overrated and maybe WW was, too. WW looked pretty good with BG but when it's his team to lead he's wilted.

Like I said in a thread a few weeks ago to this point, Cade Davis or Tony Crocker is the best Capel recruit after BG. Both have had better careers to this point than Tiny, TMG or WW. I think if TMG continues to improve, he will be the 2nd best recruit in the Capel era and maybe Taylor or Clark will jump ahead of him.

I've never gotten excited about recruiting because ultimately it's about results, and not expectation.

 

[stoops4pres]

15-14 in the ACC is a lot better than 13-15 in the Big 12.

No disrespect, but you're off on this. 2 game difference is not "a lot better" as you claim... Especially when the Big 12 is better this season.