Anthony Grant from Alabama

[colston15]

I was talking about him in another thread, he's my top choice. I also think we have about a 1% of landing him.

 

[seniorsooner]

Would be worth a shot, but you're right I can't see it happening.

 

[NotsoyoungJeezy]

Right now Im sure the Bama fans would be glad to send him here. I dont see him being any different than Capel.

 

[StatGeek]

Right now Im sure the Bama fans would be glad to send him here. I dont see him being any different than Capel.

He sure was a lot different than Capel W/L wise at VCU and now at Alabama.

 

[Sawyer]

He improved Alabama in his first year and built on that success this season. He has a nice class coming in next year and should continue to improve. I don't see why Alabama fans would be upset with what he's done.

I doubt he's ready to leave Alabama, but if OU could get him he'd be a good hire IMO. It'd be kind of odd to replace Capel with the guy who took over for him last time, though.

 

[stoops4pres]

He sure was a lot different than Capel W/L wise at VCU and now at Alabama.

To be fair, he inherited a pretty good core to work with at VCU because of Capel. I imagine it was better than what Capel had coming into VCU.

And at this point, I would take Capel's first two years at OU over Grant's first two years at Bama. Capel did make the tournament his 2nd year, something Grant hasn't done yet thus far at Bama.

I think Grant can do good things at Bama, we will have to wait and see. It should be fairly easy if the SEC fails to improve; that conference has become a joke as of late.

 

[NickZepp]

Bama won a division and won 12 games in a conference and didn't get in somehow. Yet a team from the same state UAB got in just to get their butts beat by an average Clemson team. Bama probably deserved it over both UAB and Clemson.

I'm not sure about his regional ties. That's gotta be one of the top things when looking for a coach this time. We need a coach that has regional ties and can recruit this area better.

 

[stoops4pres]

Bama won a division and won 12 games in a conference and didn't get in somehow. Yet a team from the same state UAB got in just to get their butts beat by an average Clemson team. Bama probably deserved it over both UAB and Clemson.

I wasn't shocked Bama didn't get in. The SEC was mediocre at best this season (ranked 7th in Sagarin), and would have been substantially worse if it wasn't for the East picking up the West's slack, because the West was beyond bad this year. I don't think it was much of a coincidence that Bama's season improved once the bulk of their schedule was against the SEC West.

When you're in a bad conference, your margin for error is small when playing your non-conference schedule. Bama had a bad non-conference showing compared to other bubble teams, so it didn't surprise me that they didn't get a bid.

 

[StatGeek]

To be fair, he inherited a pretty good core to work with at VCU because of Capel. I imagine it was better than what Capel had coming into VCU.

And at this point, I would take Capel's first two years at OU over Grant's first two years at Bama. Capel did make the tournament his 2nd year, something Grant hasn't done yet thus far at Bama.

I think Grant can do good things at Bama, we will have to wait and see. It should be fairly easy if the SEC fails to improve; that conference has become a joke as of late.

To be accurate, Capel inherited a team that went 21-11 the year before he got there and Capel's last two teams finished 19-13 & 19-10 respectivley. Grant won 28 games his first year and 24 in each of his final two seasons (Capel's best year was 23 wins, his only 20 win season).

Fact: Capel coached the 3 worst teams at VCU in the last 10 years, this includes 4 different coaches.

Fact: Capel coached the 3 worst teams at OU in the last 30 years, this covers 3 coaches.

Fact: OU has made 2 NCAA Tournaments & 0 NIT's since Capel's arrival.

Fact: VCU has reached 3 NCAA Tournaments 1 NIT since Capel left VCU.

 

[stoops4pres]

To be accurate, Capel inherited a team that went 21-11 the year before he got there and Capel's last two teams finished 19-13 & 19-10 respectivley. Grant won 28 games his first year and 24 in each of his final two seasons (Capel's best year was 23 wins, his only 20 win season).

Are you taking into account what Capel inherited his first year at VCU, compared to what Grant inherited his first year at VCU? The W/L comparison can be pretty misleading when taking that important aspect (the roster the coaches had to work with) into consideration.

Example: VCU could have lost their core players the year before Capel took over, subsequently leaving Capel with less to work with... As a result, putting Capel into rebuilding mode. Whereas Grant in comparison could have had the complete opposite. Those two scenarios dampens the "W/L argument" considerably.

I don't know what exactly Capel inherited, but I'll look tomorrow morning before I head to work. What I do know is that Grant inherited a pretty good foundation because of Capel (i.e. Eric Maynor, a Capel recruit that played a pivotal role in Grant's success). I'm willing to bet that Grant inherited a better foundation coming in. Either way, he owes some of his success to the foundation that Capel built for him before leaving to OU.

 

[StatGeek]

Are you taking into account what Capel inherited his first year at VCU, compared to what Grant inherited his first year at VCU? The W/L comparison can be pretty misleading when taking that important aspect (the roster the coaches had to work with) into consideration.

Example: VCU could have lost their core players the year before Capel took over, subsequently leaving Capel with less to work with... As a result, putting Capel into rebuilding mode. Whereas Grant in comparison could have had the complete opposite. Those two scenarios dampens the "W/L argument" considerably.

I don't know what exactly Capel inherited, but I'll look tomorrow morning before I head to work. What I do know is that Grant inherited a pretty good foundation because of Capel (i.e. Eric Maynor, a Capel recruit that played a pivotal role in Grant's success). I'm willing to bet that Grant inherited a better foundation coming in. Either way, he owes some of his success to the foundation that Capel built for him before leaving to OU.

Capel inherited:
Dominic Jones 16.1 PPG as Sophmore
Antoine Willie 12.5 PPG as Freshman
Willie Taylor 17.1 PPG as Junior

The team Capel inherited lost 1 player L.F. Likcholitov 10.5ppg &7.7rebpg

The only double digit scorer Grant inherited was:
BA Walker 11.7 ppg

The team Grant took over lost 2 seniors
Nick George 16.9ppg & 5.1 rebpg
Julian Capel complete bench warmer

FYI Maynor had the following stat line in Capel's final year
4.7ppg 2.2astpg 1.3rebpg

 

[NickZepp]

Capel inherited:
Dominic Jones 16.1 PPG as Sophmore
Antoine Willie 12.5 PPG as Freshman
Willie Taylor 17.1 PPG as Junior

The team Capel inherited lost 1 player L.F. Likcholitov 10.5ppg &7.7rebpg

The only double digit scorer Grant inherited was:
BA Walker 11.7 ppg

The team Grant took over lost 2 seniors
Nick George 16.9ppg & 5.1 rebpg
Julian Capel complete bench warmer

FYI Maynor had the following stat line in Capel's final year
4.7ppg 2.2astpg 1.3rebpg

It's amazing how many of the Capel myths keep getting busted daily.

 

[stoops4pres]

Capel inherited:
Dominic Jones 16.1 PPG as Sophmore
Antoine Willie 12.5 PPG as Freshman
Willie Taylor 17.1 PPG as Junior

The team Capel inherited lost 1 player L.F. Likcholitov 10.5ppg &7.7rebpg

The only double digit scorer Grant inherited was:
BA Walker 11.7 ppg

The team Grant took over lost 2 seniors
Nick George 16.9ppg & 5.1 rebpg
Julian Capel complete bench warmer

FYI Maynor had the following stat line in Capel's final year
4.7ppg 2.2astpg 1.3rebpg

Thanks for looking it up. A few corrections:

L.F. Likch wasn't the only player Capel lost. According to VCUDaily.com Capel also appeared to have lost two other big bodies in Josh Graham (started 19 out of 31 games played) and Konstantin Nesterov (started 14 out of 32 games played).

Also--It should be pointed out that 2 of Capel's 3 best initial players (Dominic Jones and Antoine Willie), were a shell of their former selves the year Capel took over. Examples:

D. Jones 2001-2002: 16.1 ppg, 46% FG, 72% FT
2002-2003: 12.3 ppg 42% FG, 53.9% FT

A. Willie 2001-2002: 12.4 ppg, 42% FG, 67% FT 32/32 games started
2002-2003: 7.8 ppg, 40% FG, 72% FT 6/25 games started

So with three players lost, and two of his best players that clearly regressed for whatever reason (injuries, personal issues, etc), Capel did lose more than just one player. He did inherit Nick George (8 ppg as a freshman), but I don't know if that was his recruit from the beginning, or another coach's. Overall, it appears that he had less to work with coming in than the season prior to his head coaching role.


And no offense, but your portion on Grant's inheritance is a little misleading: Grant did take over additional assets in Pellot-Rosa (13.2 ppg) and Mark Anderson (started all 35 games). I feel like those two should be mentioned as guys that were initially Capel's that Grant inherited. And the dramatic proliferation that Maynor made shouldn't be ignored, either (13 ppg as a sophomore, a period that normally sees the best improvement compared to a player's freshman year).

So perhaps the difference wasn't as significant as I may have indicated, but I would still argue that Capel lost more than Grant did when looking at their respective initial seasons.

Regardless of this debate, the point still stands that Grant, while a very good coach, does owe some of his success at VCU for the foundation that Capel left him.

 

[stoops4pres]

It's amazing how many of the Capel myths keep getting busted daily.

LOL, okay, what myth was "busted" exactly?

Everything considered, I'd still argue that Capel lost more than what Grant did in their initial seasons. But judging by your posting style, I wouldn't expect you to "consider everything". So I won't hold my breath.

 

[thebigabd]

To be accurate, Capel inherited a team that went 21-11 the year before he got there and Capel's last two teams finished 19-13 & 19-10 respectivley. Grant won 28 games his first year and 24 in each of his final two seasons (Capel's best year was 23 wins, his only 20 win season).

Fact: Capel coached the 3 worst teams at VCU in the last 10 years, this includes 4 different coaches.

Fact: Capel coached the 3 worst teams at OU in the last 30 years, this covers 3 coaches.

Fact: OU has made 2 NCAA Tournaments & 0 NIT's since Capel's arrival.

Fact: VCU has reached 3 NCAA Tournaments 1 NIT since Capel left VCU.

Yikes.

 

[Dem Coltz]

You people are showing your colors in this thread. Capel changed the atmosphere of VCU bball, and got the program on track for the current success they are having now. 1st NCAA tournament in 2004 since 1996, his 2nd year, with only 3 players he didn't recruit or help recruit. 2 role players in the back of the rotation and the best player on the team. 23-8 record, lost to Wake Forest and CP3 by 1. Finished 2nd in conference his first year and 3rd year, including an NIT his 3rd year. During his first year the NIT committee apologized to the school because an error during seeding caused them to omit VCU from the NIT even though they should have been in.

Some of this stuff is silly, like the last 10 years Capel has the worst 3 records. But you don't mention they expanded the CAA to add more teams and more conference games, including an extra early conference tourney game against a walkover. The teams they added were Georgia State and Northeastern. Ga St 1 or 2 times a year are easy money, Northeastern is sometimes tough but only once a year, and now their conference schedule only includes an always tough George Mason once a year. Or the fact that once he changed the culture and stacked the cupboard it was easy for the next coach to come in and keep it going. Grant is a good coach, no doubt. But having Maynor, 2 senior all conference guards, and some solid athletic big men made it hard to fail. Shaka Smart inherited Grant's entire team after he left including a 6'9'' lottery pick. Then again, VCU message boarders like you guys wanted Smart gone after last year despite winning 20 games and losing in the semis of the conference tournament to ODU in OT during his 1st year. Those same message boarders also questioned how good Grant was without Maynor, till he left for Bama when Maynor graduated.

 

[stoops4pres]

You people are showing your colors in this thread. Capel changed the atmosphere of VCU bball, and got the program on track for the current success they are having now. 1st NCAA tournament in 2004 since 1996, his 2nd year, with only 3 players he didn't recruit or help recruit. 2 role players in the back of the rotation and the best player on the team. 23-8 record, lost to Wake Forest and CP3 by 1. Finished 2nd in conference his first year and 3rd year, including an NIT his 3rd year. During his first year the NIT committee apologized to the school because an error during seeding caused them to omit VCU from the NIT even though they should have been in.

Some of this stuff is silly, like the last 10 years Capel has the worst 3 records. But you don't mention they expanded the CAA to add more teams and more conference games, including an extra early conference tourney game against a walkover. The teams they added were Georgia State and Northeastern. Ga St 1 or 2 times a year are easy money, Northeastern is sometimes tough but only once a year, and now their conference schedule only includes an always tough George Mason once a year. Or the fact that once he changed the culture and stacked the cupboard it was easy for the next coach to come in and keep it going. Grant is a good coach, no doubt. But having Maynor, 2 senior all conference guards, and some solid athletic big men made it hard to fail. Shaka Smart inherited Grant's entire team after he left including a 6'9'' lottery pick. Then again, VCU message boarders like you guys wanted Smart gone after last year despite winning 20 games and losing in the semis of the conference tournament to ODU in OT during his 1st year. Those same message boarders also questioned how good Grant was without Maynor, till he left for Bama when Maynor graduated.

Good post.

 

[boksooner]

I don't understand the need to denigrate everything Capel did. He did good things at VCU. He did good things at OU. He didn't do enough and got fired. The facts are enough to justify the coaching change. Why do people feel the need to manipulate the facts to make him seem even worse?

 

[scrybe]

You people are showing your colors in this thread. Capel changed the atmosphere of VCU bball, and got the program on track for the current success they are having now. 1st NCAA tournament in 2004 since 1996, his 2nd year, with only 3 players he didn't recruit or help recruit. 2 role players in the back of the rotation and the best player on the team. 23-8 record, lost to Wake Forest and CP3 by 1. Finished 2nd in conference his first year and 3rd year, including an NIT his 3rd year. During his first year the NIT committee apologized to the school because an error during seeding caused them to omit VCU from the NIT even though they should have been in.

Some of this stuff is silly, like the last 10 years Capel has the worst 3 records. But you don't mention they expanded the CAA to add more teams and more conference games, including an extra early conference tourney game against a walkover. The teams they added were Georgia State and Northeastern. Ga St 1 or 2 times a year are easy money, Northeastern is sometimes tough but only once a year, and now their conference schedule only includes an always tough George Mason once a year. Or the fact that once he changed the culture and stacked the cupboard it was easy for the next coach to come in and keep it going. Grant is a good coach, no doubt. But having Maynor, 2 senior all conference guards, and some solid athletic big men made it hard to fail. Shaka Smart inherited Grant's entire team after he left including a 6'9'' lottery pick. Then again, VCU message boarders like you guys wanted Smart gone after last year despite winning 20 games and losing in the semis of the conference tournament to ODU in OT during his 1st year. Those same message boarders also questioned how good Grant was without Maynor, till he left for Bama when Maynor graduated.

Excellent post, Dem Cotz. Some of our posters should start ordering their eggs scrambled every morning. They would still have egg on their faces, but at least the yellow wouldn't be running down their chins.

 

[StatGeek]

Thanks for looking it up. A few corrections:

L.F. Likch wasn't the only player Capel lost. According to VCUDaily.com Capel also appeared to have lost two other big bodies in Josh Graham (started 19 out of 31 games played) and Konstantin Nesterov (started 14 out of 32 games played).

Also--It should be pointed out that 2 of Capel's 3 best initial players (Dominic Jones and Antoine Willie), were a shell of their former selves the year Capel took over. Examples:

D. Jones 2001-2002: 16.1 ppg, 46% FG, 72% FT
2002-2003: 12.3 ppg 42% FG, 53.9% FT

A. Willie 2001-2002: 12.4 ppg, 42% FG, 67% FT 32/32 games started
2002-2003: 7.8 ppg, 40% FG, 72% FT 6/25 games started

So with three players lost, and two of his best players that clearly regressed for whatever reason (injuries, personal issues, etc), Capel did lose more than just one player. He did inherit Nick George (8 ppg as a freshman), but I don't know if that was his recruit from the beginning, or another coach's. Overall,
it appears that he had less to work with coming in than the season prior to his head coaching role.


And no offense, but your portion on Grant's inheritance is a little misleading: Grant did take over additional assets in Pellot-Rosa (13.2 ppg) and Mark Anderson (started all 35 games). I feel like those two should be mentioned as guys that were initially Capel's that Grant inherited. And the dramatic proliferation that Maynor made shouldn't be ignored, either (13 ppg as a sophomore, a period that normally sees the best improvement compared to a player's freshman year).

So perhaps the difference wasn't as significant as I may have indicated, but I would still argue that Capel lost more than Grant did when looking at their respective initial seasons.

Regardless of this debate, the point still stands that Grant, while a very good coach, does owe some of his success at VCU for the foundation that Capel left him.

So the fact that players regressed under Capel is an endorsement? Look, I get that want to support Capel and I respect that but the facts are clear.

As for my misleading about the roster, I used what the players did in their last year with their previous coaches not what their new coaches helped them accomplish. That's why Pellot-Rosa (9.2ppg)was omitted & Anderson started 2 games in Capel's last season. If anyone is misleading its not me.