Basketball Season!

[bocabull]

I see nobody addressed the boneheaded timeout during an extra point. Stoops panics and makes rookie decisions all the time. Saying he's a top 5 coach is laughable. He has a top 5 budget, top 10 talent and struggles to field a top 10 team.

It's like saying that buffoon Trump is a smart businessman because his daddy left him a bunch of real estate and he hasn't screwed it all up, just half.

 

[skyvue]

there is nothing knee jerk about what i said. People have been saying the same thing about Stoops for years now.

Yes, a small but vocal minority has been spewing that nonsense, it's true.

As for the defensive coordinator being in over his head, how'd the defense do on the two third-down plays late in Saturday's game, either one of which might have allowed us to win the game?

Is Mike Stoops in over his head?

No, but then neither was Venables in over his head. Not by a long shot. He was just the favorite person to blame for a certain faction of our fans. And those fans ALWAYS need someone to blame. "If we could just replace the QB with his backup. No, wait, the offensive coordinator, let's get rid of him. No, no, I got it -- it's the defensive coordinator's fault. Give him the boot."

Unless and until we got undefeated and win every game going away, those fans will squawk.

 

[AdaSooner]

OU's offense clearly has some coaching issues. On defense, the biggest problem is lack of talent...it's the worst front 7 I've seen at OU in my 40 years as a fan (the Blake years at least had Kelly Gregg). My only hope is that Stoops puts some freshmen in there and one or two has a "Sterling Shepherd-like" impact.

WF, you're absolutely correct on both counts. But, putting our coaching issues on offense aside for the moment, there is not an impact player on OU's front seven this year who is capable of disrupting the flow of the game. That's especially true of the front four. If Klein was sacked, harrassed or even hurried one time on Saturday, I must have missed it. This is definitely the worst group in my memory!

 

[cvangild]

I see nobody addressed the boneheaded timeout during an extra point. Stoops panics and makes rookie decisions all the time. Saying he's a top 5 coach is laughable. He has a top 5 budget, top 10 talent and struggles to field a top 10 team.

It's like saying that buffoon Trump is a smart businessman because his daddy left him a bunch of real estate and he hasn't screwed it all up, just half.

Your post is so wrong, I don't even know where to start. Do you not remember the days before we got Stoops?? Those were some tough years to swallow. Stoops has now lost, what 4 games at home in 12 seasons?? Not too bad IMO. He has had us in what 4 NC games in the past 12 years?? What other program can say that? To argue that he is a bad coach is simply stupid.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Your post is so wrong, I don't even know where to start. Do you not remember the days before we got Stoops?? Those were some tough years to swallow. Stoops has now lost, what 4 games at home in 12 seasons?? Not too bad IMO. He has had us in what 4 NC games in the past 12 years?? What other program can say that? To argue that he is a bad coach is simply stupid.

I can agree with everything you say and still admit that the program has taken a step back over the last few years. Talent, coaching, evaluation, organization, not sure what it is, but probably a combination of all the above. That being said, even the best go through a "slump" in their careers, Switzer struggled in the early 80's, but the guy that is very comparable is Osbourne at NU, hopefully Bob can have a resurgence like Osbourne did.

 

[bocabull]

Your post is so wrong, I don't even know where to start. Do you not remember the days before we got Stoops?? Those were some tough years to swallow. Stoops has now lost, what 4 games at home in 12 seasons?? Not too bad IMO. He has had us in what 4 NC games in the past 12 years?? What other program can say that? To argue that he is a bad coach is simply stupid.

You say my post is so wrong then go on to address a bunch of issues I never mentioned.

You did not address my main beef. Stoops totally squandered his next to last timeout during a dead ball situation with 4 minutes left. I don't expect us to win every game but when you make over $3million per year and are 50 years old I expect you to know the score, know the time, know you are going for 2 if you score a TD, have the play ready for the conversion, etc.

Bob has shown me over a number of years he has trouble executing in those situations. He has shown me over a number years to rarely if ever expect his team to beat other teams unless he has a dramatic talent advantage.

 

[25mob]

So exactly which players that aren't starting or playing much are better than those that are starting?

Trey Millard, Roy Finch, D. Williams and Tyus Thompson.

 

[25mob]

Yes, a small but vocal minority has been spewing that nonsense, it's true.

As for the defensive coordinator being in over his head, how'd the defense do on the two third-down plays late in Saturday's game, either one of which might have allowed us to win the game?

Is Mike Stoops in over his head?

No, but then neither was Venables in over his head. Not by a long shot. He was just the favorite person to blame for a certain faction of our fans. And those fans ALWAYS need someone to blame. "If we could just replace the QB with his backup. No, wait, the offensive coordinator, let's get rid of him. No, no, I got it -- it's the defensive coordinator's fault. Give him the boot."

Unless and until we got undefeated and win every game going away, those fans will squawk.

what nonsense?

Did you really pull out two plays to justify your argument about the whole game?

I don't expect teams to go undefeated and it's not a blame game when a team losses a game but when a team is constantly having the same issues and keep doing the same things then someone is going to get some blame... it's the nature of any business.

let's apply good common sense here... if i as a manager keep asking a staff member to complete a task and they keep doing the task incorrectly then who is at fault... Me the manager or the staff member? Me of course because I'm asking the staff member to do something that they keep proving that they just cannot do. who do you think my boss is going to lay the most fault on? Me of course.

 

[skyvue]

Did you really pull out two plays to justify your argument about the whole game?

Rest assured that if the game had gone exactly as it did but it'd been Venables who was defensive coordinator, he'd have been blamed for the loss by those fans you cited, and because of those same two plays.

 

[WTSooner]

You say my post is so wrong then go on to address a bunch of issues I never mentioned.

You did not address my main beef. Stoops totally squandered his next to last timeout during a dead ball situation with 4 minutes left. I don't expect us to win every game but when you make over $3million per year and are 50 years old I expect you to know the score, know the time, know you are going for 2 if you score a TD, have the play ready for the conversion, etc.

Bob has shown me over a number of years he has trouble executing in those situations. He has shown me over a number years to rarely if ever expect his team to beat other teams unless he has a dramatic talent advantage.

You keep beating this issue to death. Was it the ideal situation to use that timeout? No, probably not. But as much trouble as we'd had getting the ball in the endzone, maybe Bob felt like keeping the game at 3 points was more important. We had PLENTY of time to stop KSU, get the ball back, and do something. One timeout didn't change that. Disagree with his decision all you want, but suggesting it's 100% black and white to not call a timeout there is silly.

 

[WTSooner]

Trey Millard, Roy Finch, D. Williams and Tyus Thompson.

lol....okay.

Pretty sure Millard does start.

Pretty sure Williams had more carries than anybody else in the KSU game, but didn't have the highest average yards per carry. Whaley played much better in the KSU game than he had all year.

And it's well known why Finch isn't playing more. You can't play guys that don't practice hard and miss assignments. If you don't know the plays, you aren't going to get on the field. That is true from the NFL all the way down to Pee Wee football.

 

[WTSooner]

I don't expect teams to go undefeated and it's not a blame game when a team losses a game but when a team is constantly having the same issues and keep doing the same things then someone is going to get some blame... it's the nature of any business.

How so? This isn't pro football, you can't just release guys midseason, and sign FA's or trade for better players.

A few years back our special teams were crap. Other than the blocked kick against UTEP, they've looked MUCH improved this year, in all phases. Defense had been a problem. Defense, though still needing a talent upgrade, looks much improved to me, after Bob made a coaching change. This is really the first year the offense has been bad. Sure, it didn't look good once Broyles went down last year, but I don't think you can form an opinion on 3-4 games. If the offense needs changes, I'm guessing those changes will be made. You don't start changing things after every game though. OU's 12+ years of success under Bob come in part due to consistency from year to year.

 

[DenverSooner]

On the other hand with the football team has been sub-par for years on the defensive side of the ball and just about every casual fan saw that the coordinator was in over his head but Stoops continued to let this guy keep his position.

Clemson didn't see it that way. They paid Brent Venables big money to take the DC job. Maybe the reality is that the casual fans are wrong.

 

[25mob]

lol....okay.

Pretty sure Millard does start.

Pretty sure Williams had more carries than anybody else in the KSU game, but didn't have the highest average yards per carry. Whaley played much better in the KSU game than he had all year.

And it's well known why Finch isn't playing more. You can't play guys that don't practice hard and miss assignments. If you don't know the plays, you aren't going to get on the field. That is true from the NFL all the way down to Pee Wee football.

I need you to focus up on what i am saying and stop zeroing in on what you think I'm saying. I stated putting the best players on the field and you are only focusing on who is starting.

Millard didn't start against Kstate and he has been under utilized the last 2 years even though both Stoops and JH have constantly say he needs to be used more.

D. Williams should be getting more than 10 carries in a game because as you saw with the run that was called back... he can break one at any time. There is no way Landry should be throwing the ball 43 times and Williams only touching it 10... just shouldn't happen because Landry is not that kind of QB.

Finch situation is the biggest contradiction of Bobs Stoops era that i can think of. He says Finch doesn't practice hard and doesn't know the plays but then goes out and plays him for a few plays on offense and the following game starts him against Kstate. Did he just miraculously just start knowing the plays or practicing hard? No! the issue with Finch started when they wanted him to play slot receiver... he didn't want to play it so he didn't give the best effort and they punished him by not playing him much at running back. Well he's a running back not a WR so why try to force it? he doesn't have to start but they can find ways to play him just like they did his freshman year. Right now out of all the backs we have he is the best suited to play in this system.

 

[WTSooner]

I need you to focus up on what i am saying and stop zeroing in on what you think I'm saying. I stated putting the best players on the field and you are only focusing on who is starting.

Millard didn't start against Kstate and he has been under utilized the last 2 years even though both Stoops and JH have constantly say he needs to be used more.

D. Williams should be getting more than 10 carries in a game because as you saw with the run that was called back... he can break one at any time. There is no way Landry should be throwing the ball 43 times and Williams only touching it 10... just shouldn't happen because Landry is not that kind of QB.

Finch situation is the biggest contradiction of Bobs Stoops era that i can think of. He says Finch doesn't practice hard and doesn't know the plays but then goes out and plays him for a few plays on offense and the following game starts him against Kstate. Did he just miraculously just start knowing the plays or practicing hard? No! the issue with Finch started when they wanted him to play slot receiver... he didn't want to play it so he didn't give the best effort and they punished him by not playing him much at running back. Well he's a running back not a WR so why try to force it? he doesn't have to start but they can find ways to play him just like they did his freshman year. Right now out of all the backs we have he is the best suited to play in this system.

So you want us to scrap the offense we've been running, in part, since Bob got to OU, and go to a more traditional, running-based offense?

Not going to happen. And not a change you can make mid-season, especially with an already mediocre oline that was recruited to pass block.

No offense, but I'm sure Stoops, and Norvell, and Heupel are all better offensive college football coaches than you are.

 

[25mob]

How so? This isn't pro football, you can't just release guys midseason, and sign FA's or trade for better players.

A few years back our special teams were crap. Other than the blocked kick against UTEP, they've looked MUCH improved this year, in all phases. Defense had been a problem. Defense, though still needing a talent upgrade, looks much improved to me, after Bob made a coaching change. This is really the first year the offense has been bad. Sure, it didn't look good once Broyles went down last year, but I don't think you can form an opinion on 3-4 games. If the offense needs changes, I'm guessing those changes will be made. You don't start changing things after every game though. OU's 12+ years of success under Bob come in part due to consistency from year to year.

Focus up on what i have been saying... I think you are so intent on debating me that you are not comprehending what I am saying or you wouldn't be making statements like releasing players. My point is that the coaches are not using the players to their strengths but instead trying to force a system on them that these players weren't recruited to play in. I don't blame the players when they are constantly being asked to do things they just can't do.

You admit that the defense had been a problem and that is exactly what one of my points were... it took him to long to get someone in there to correct what had been a problem for years. His stubbornness and loyalty to his friend would still be going on if his brother was not out of a job. The defense over the last number of years had the same problems over and over but there was nothing done to correct it. they just kept rolling out the same schemes and kept getting the same results only to say "we need to execute better". well at the end of last year Stoops finally admitted that maybe they had been asking players to do things they couldn't do"... Did it really take him a whole football season to figure this out... I highly doubt it because he didn't just forget how to coach.

As to the offense... it wasn't working when Ryan went down so why keep trying to force it? They never adjusted their scheme to fit the players and then made it worse by moving Stills to a position that he just wasn't good at. How is that good coaching? Instead of using the off season to rethink things and come up with something new... they are still trying to force the same offense and are basically getting the same results. how is that good coaching? the offense they are running does not fit the style of their running backs. Both Whaley and D. Williams are more traditional downhill one cut backs and with this shotgun system you need a back like Finch or D. Thomas out in Oregon who are your quick twitch, elusive backs who are excellent in open space. How is this good coaching?

 

[25mob]

Clemson didn't see it that way. They paid Brent Venables big money to take the DC job. Maybe the reality is that the casual fans are wrong.

you don't want to go there right now especially after this past weekend.

 

[25mob]

So you want us to scrap the offense we've been running, in part, since Bob got to OU, and go to a more traditional, running-based offense?

Not going to happen. And not a change you can make mid-season, especially with an already mediocre oline that was recruited to pass block.

No offense, but I'm sure Stoops, and Norvell, and Heupel are all better offensive college football coaches than you are.

you obviously haven't been watching OU football because the offense they are running is not what OU has been running since Stoops got here. The offense has changed a couple times since he first got here but nice try.

No offense taken because that's normally what people say when they don't have a real reply.

 

[bocabull]

Was anybody even slightly surprised we lost to KSU? I doubt it. It's a problem we're stuck with.

This will be good for OU basketball though. The surprising exciting wins will come from Kruger. OU football has not delivered an exciting win vs a bigtime program since when? Seriously? I really think its been since the 2001 Texas Roy Williams superman play. And please don't act like beating Texas Tech and their runts in 2008 was some big unexpected win.

 

[WTSooner]

Was anybody even slightly surprised we lost to KSU? I doubt it. It's a problem we're stuck with.

You say this, yet I think we'll get at least two wins from teams that I consider better than KSU. So yes, it did surprise me that we lost.