Don't understand the excitement over Mizzou

[BigTime]

I picked them to finish 9th in the league and I still don't think I am too off. I wanted to say something in Boca and abds' threads before our game, but didn't want to jinx the team.

What do you guys see in them? Do they defend? Yes, but so do several other teams in our league. They have no offense. None. Bowers and Stafford are going to get absolutely slaughtered by Texas, Kansas, OSU, Baylor, and A&M.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad for the win, but OSU was the bigger win for this team. Mizzou will be an NIT team at best.

Someone enlighten me as to what I am missing about them. You lose your top 3 offensive players and you don't replace them....

 

[Sawyer]

I'm sorry... I've been more or less classy after the game... but this is flat out stupid. MU averages 83.5 points per game, which is better than all but two or three Big 12 teams. We're 2-1 in the Big 12, including a road win over a team getting top 25 votes (in case you noticed... and after a 31 point loss to Baylor I assume you have... Big 12 road wins are hard to come by).

You've been posting these exact same criticisms of Mizzou since before the season started. MU loses its top three scorers and didn't replace them (Lawrence wasn't even a starter at the end of last year, and English and Denmon have increased their scoring output by 15 per game since last season, Dixon comes in as a freshman and averages 9/game). MU has no scorers (see: 83.5 points per game, English at 16 per, Denmon at 12). MU will get slaughtered inside (see: outrebounded ksu and Texas Tech, the 4th and 5th best rebounding teams in the Big 12).

Your views on Mizzou have absolutely no basis in reality.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

After seeing them today, I agree. They are going to look like a good team if they are getting steals. If you don't let that happen, they are a pretty average team. Pretty rag-tag group of players, no real leader, no real identity outside of the pressure defense. Not that that is a bad identity to have, but it is hard to play good defense like that if the other team is breaking your pressure. And we did, after about the first 10 minutes.

 

[BigTime]

I'm sorry... I've been more or less classy after the game... but this is flat out stupid. MU averages 83.5 points per game, which is better than all but two or three Big 12 teams. We're 2-1 in the Big 12, including a road win over a team getting top 25 votes (in case you noticed... and after a 31 point loss to Baylor I assume you have... Big 12 road wins are hard to come by).

You've been posting these exact same criticisms of Mizzou since before the season started. MU loses its top three scorers and didn't replace them (Lawrence wasn't even a starter at the end of last year, and English and Denmon have increased their scoring output by 15 per game since last season, Dixon comes in as a freshman and averages 9/game). MU has no scorers (see: 83.5 points per game, English at 16 per, Denmon at 12). MU will get slaughtered inside (see: outrebounded ksu and Texas Tech, the 4th and 5th best rebounding teams in the Big 12).



Your views on Mizzou have absolutely no basis in reality.

I guess we will see. You get a lot of easy points off of your defense. Anderson's teams will always average a lot of points (especially during the patsy portion of the nonconference). I am more speaking about your halfcourt offense. Who is your go to guy?

I'm sorry but Denmon doesn't strike the fear in me. The guy hit wide open threes tonight due to some poor rotation by our defense.

Mizzou will always be tough at home due to Anderson's system and home teams getting more calls, but I just don't see a tournament team. Our league is too good.

Next year's class will help with scoring...

I could be way off base, but I just don't think Mizzou is any good this year. A non-homer reply might be helpful in changing my mind.

 

[MNsooner]

They play pressure D as well as anyone in the country (they average over 12 steals a game), they start 3 seniors and a junior so they are experienced, and offensively they average 1.32 points per shot (which is comparable to OU's 1.31). Basically they are OU's offensive productivity with better defense and experience. So that is where the hype comes from.

 

[Sawyer]

After seeing them today, I agree. They are going to look like a good team if they are getting steals. If you don't let that happen, they are a pretty average team. Pretty rag-tag group of players, no real leader, no real identity outside of the pressure defense. Not that that is a bad identity to have, but it is hard to play good defense like that if the other team is breaking your pressure. And we did, after about the first 10 minutes.

MU is 10th nationally in assists per game and 21st in threes made per game (25th in percentage).

That, to me, looks like an identity.

 

[Sooner23]

 

[SoonerfanTU]

MU is 10th nationally in assists per game and 21st in threes made per game (25th in percentage).

That, to me, looks like an identity.

It's all predicated on getting steals though. Not even turnovers, true steals. If that doesn't happen, they can't manufacture points in the halfcourt, and they can't get second chances, b/c they don't rebound well.

Your team is 299 in terms of offensive rebounding, and around 200 in FT's. Those are things that win close games.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Looks like other teams are finding their weaknesses too?

 

[MNsooner]

It's all predicated on getting steals though. Not even turnovers, true steals. If that doesn't happen, they can't manufacture points in the halfcourt, and they can't get second chances, b/c they don't rebound well.

Your team is 299 in terms of offensive rebounding, and around 200 in FT's. Those are things that win close games.

I agree with this. They didn't look comfortable in a half court set. I think though they do manufacture steals at a high rate which makes it really hard for their opponents to get into a rhythm. Make no mistake this is a good experienced team. If they finish 9th or 10th in the conference that is a testament to how good the conference is because they could win the pac-10 and get to the tournament from the SEC in my opinion.

 

[Sawyer]

I guess we will see. You get a lot of easy points off of your defense. Anderson's teams will always average a lot of points (especially during the patsy portion of the nonconference). I am more speaking about your halfcourt offense. Who is your go to guy?

I'm sorry but Denmon doesn't strike the fear in me. The guy hit wide open threes tonight due to some poor rotation by our defense.

Mizzou will always be tough at home due to Anderson's system and home teams getting more calls, but I just don't see a tournament team. Our league is too good.

Next year's class will help with scoring...

I could be way off base, but I just don't think Mizzou is any good this year. A non-homer reply might be helpful in changing my mind.

A non-homer reply? I cited statistics. What do you want?

Denmon shoots 44% from three on the season. Credit poor rotation by MU's opponents all year if you want.

Speaking of those open shots, though... you familiar with the concept of a motion offense? I assume you are. MU runs one... and they run it well. They don't have what you would probably call a go-to guy. The offense doesn't require it. MU gets open shots and has six different guys shooting 39% or better from three. The open shots aren't a coincidence and aren't simply a result of poor defensive rotation. That's what MU does. It's what MU did last year, and it's what MU will do next year and in the future.

 

[MNsooner]

Speaking of those open shots, though... you familiar with the concept of a motion offense? I assume you are. MU runs one... and they run it well. They don't have what you would probably call a go-to guy. The offense doesn't require it. MU gets open shots and has six different guys shooting 39% or better from three. The open shots aren't a coincidence and aren't simply a result of poor defensive rotation. That's what MU does. It's what MU did last year, and it's what MU will do next year and in the future.

What happened today then? Do you not think you weren't running your motion offense well or that OU was great on rotations? I thought we did a great job with rotation personally, but I am biased.

 

[coolm]

apparently they were good enough to beat TTech, KState, Georgia, amd Illinois.

 

[Sawyer]

It's all predicated on getting steals though. Not even turnovers, true steals. If that doesn't happen, they can't manufacture points in the halfcourt, and they can't get second chances, b/c they don't rebound well.

Your team is 299 in terms of offensive rebounding, and around 200 in FT's. Those are things that win close games.

I assume you're citing the kenpom numbers.

MU is 299 in offensive rebounding percentage defense. That's a lot different than "offensive rebounding." MU is a good offensive rebounding team (ranks 67th in the kenpom rankings for rebounding their own misses, which is 5th in the Big 12).

The 200s in FTs you reference is "FTA/FGA," and I'm not even sure what that is (I assume it's a ranking of free throws attempted per field goal attempt, and yes, MU does rank low in that... but we did last year, too). MU is 76th nationally in free throw percentage.

And no... it's not all predicated on steals. MU was only 1 or 2 below their season average for steals today, but that didn't translate into offense.

 

[Sawyer]

What happened today then? Do you not think you weren't running your motion offense well or that OU was great on rotations? I thought we did a great job with rotation personally, but I am biased.

A combination of OU playing inspired ball and MU not getting their good looks that they did have to fall.

MU is typically pretty efficient in their half court offense... IF they are getting threes to fall. They have for most of this season. They didn't today. When that doesn't happen, the half court offense will look pretty bad.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

A combination of OU playing inspired ball and MU not getting their good looks that they did have to fall.

MU is typically pretty efficient in their half court offense... IF they are getting threes to fall. They have for most of this season. They didn't today. When that doesn't happen, the half court offense will look pretty bad.

Sawyer: FWIW, I do not think that swipes at Mizzou are what is intended. There are some on this board that have Colorado and ISU as better teams than OU for no logical reason other than soft OCC scheduling. This was a game that those same folks had as a mismatch for OU becuase of build-up. Best of luck to you and Mizzou the rest of the season.

 

[sys]

they spread the court way out and hit jumpshots. there are a lot of different ways to score. they're good at what they do.

 

[Krugerfan52]

I picked them to finish 9th in the league and I still don't think I am too off. I wanted to say something in Boca and abds' threads before our game, but didn't want to jinx the team.

What do you guys see in them? Do they defend? Yes, but so do several other teams in our league. They have no offense. None. Bowers and Stafford are going to get absolutely slaughtered by Texas, Kansas, OSU, Baylor, and A&M.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad for the win, but OSU was the bigger win for this team. Mizzou will be an NIT team at best.

Someone enlighten me as to what I am missing about them. You lose your top 3 offensive players and you don't replace them....

I agree Big. I picked them 8th or so as well because they lost Carroll/Lyons/Lawrence. I don't think they have a collection of great players, and they didn't look great today. BUT, I do think they will win nearly all of their home games though because they feed off their crowd with their style of play, and since they have already won a road game they should finish about 8-8.

Today's win over them was big because if we finish 8-8 too, we will have the tie-breaker.

 

[earlpearl]

Good win for the Sooners. Mizzou is a good team. I think it is a tossup who is the better team Mizzou or OSU. Both wins were a must to keep the Sooners hopes alive for post season NCAA play as are the rest of their home games. I think they will have a very rough time on the road.

 

[soonerbms]

This Sawyer guy is kind of annoying.