Doris Burke Said

[SoonerNorm]

It truly puzzles me that some on a message board think they know everything about everybody else on the same board.

Some of us know exactly how this all works because we have been there.

Very, very few coaches think they can research a recruit and know everything about them. One form of gathering information is to ask the players how the recruit seemed to fit in during the visit. Only the most foolish coach would ignore that input in making a decision about that recruit.

I'm really surprised anyone would be surprised about that. But a few really lousy leaders think they are right 100% of the time and want only yes men around them. They are the really, really, really lousy leaders. Take a management class and investigate how often you are taught to just make all your own decisions without any input. That number will turn out to be NEVER.

And no one is advising you to take input so you can ignore it. the coach makes the final decision, but many get to put in input. No matter what mis-information has been posted on this board.

Are you saying that coaches who don't get input from players don't know what they are doing?

 

[35TangoTango]

Are you saying that coaches who don't get input from players don't know what they are doing?

What we've found out here is that several really good coaches who obviously DO know what they are doing, seek input from their players. We've always known that about our coach, but now we've found out that she is not by any means the only one.

 

[sdcloud9]

I think coaches who don't do this are not doing their job.

If the players have bad vibes about a player on a visist, that is usually a huge red flag.

 

[SoonerinNC]

There is a big difference between asking for input and turning the final decision over to the players.

A leader looks at the total information available and takes responsibility for making decisions. Certainly the player input should be carfully considered but on balance going ahead with a player may be the best for the team. Players have nothing at stake if they are wrong.

Letting the players make the final decision is a cop out and poor leadership.

 

[MsProudSooner]

If you can't get along off the court. You won't get along on it. No chemistry means no communication on the court, no trust, and no passing. Chemistry means everything to a team.

You don't have to look any further than Capel's last two years at OU to see examples of this.

 

[sybarite]

The thought that a coach would not seek information from his players is rather curious. Any manager of any business wants all information available. Veto? That's a rather interesting idea. Do you want a player on your team that caused such animosity among your players that they would seek to veto her? If players sought to restrict someone, that should be a major flag. The best athlete in the world might be a negative if they can't be the member of a team. Whether you call it that or not, I suspect that all coaches would let his players veto the pursuit of a recruit. As such, this entire discussion seems pretentious.

Get serious. You really want someone on your team that the players find to be an obstruction?

 

[SoonerNorm]

I think coaches who don't do this are not doing their job.

If the players have bad vibes about a player on a visist, that is usually a huge red flag.

But many coaches offer kids before they visit. I often read about players who have multiple offers long before they start visiting any schools. The kid will narrow down their list before deciding which schools they will actually visit.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Another point, high school coaches for decades have dealt with kids from multiple backgrounds and personalities and they generally make it work. Same with WNBA. Those coaches do not ask the team who he/she can draft. Players who want to win are usually willing to put personal differences aside to have the best team possible. We ALL played with some we did not like but we didn't let that stop being good teammates. Look at Kobe and Shaq. They couldn't stand each other until they got on the court at which time their desire to win was their only focus.

In a perfect world a coach would have a team full of players who were like sisters. Does it have to be that way? Of course not! Besides, when a recruit visits, the team is only going to have a few hours to evaluate the recruit. Often first impressions are wrong. In my opinion a coach who has talked to the recruit, high school coach, AD, parents, and principle (some on multiple occasions) will know a heck of a lot more about that kid than the team after one short visit. If a player detected a potential problem should it be reported to the coach? You bet! The coach could then follow up (if the coach deems it necessary) to determine if the information is valid or not.

 

[35TangoTango]

Norm, I'm a little confused as to what your point is. In the thread we've had quotes from several very good coaches saying they seek their players' input on recruits. Are you trying to tell us that it just ain't so?

 

[SoonerNorm]

Norm, I'm a little confused as to what your point is. In the thread we've had quotes from several very good coaches saying they seek their players' input on recruits. Are you trying to tell us that it just ain't so?

First, I disagree with the description, "several". I'm sure some coaches do. I'm also sure some do not.

Some great players will not visit a school unless they have an offer. If Sherri will not offer unless the team gives their consent, could that be a reason we are not flooded with top 10 recruits visiting OU?

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

First, I disagree with the description, "several". I'm sure some coaches do. I'm also sure some do not.

Some great players will not visit a school unless they have an offer. If Sherri will not offer unless the team gives their consent, could that be a reason we are not flooded with top 10 recruits visiting OU?

NO.

 

[Sooner Cal]

Switzer asked his players about how they viewed recruits. I remember one Texas running back who we backed off because the players thought he was too interested in himself.

I think it's a great idea to get feedback from your players and listen to it, consider it and act on it.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

First, I disagree with the description, "several". I'm sure some coaches do. I'm also sure some do not.

Some great players will not visit a school unless they have an offer. If Sherri will not offer unless the team gives their consent, could that be a reason we are not flooded with top 10 recruits visiting OU?

OK. If you're positive about that, could you list 30 or 40 who refuse to consider the views of their players as a part of the decision to offer a scholarship.

For example, I'm talking about a coach who admits publicly he/she would tell current players to get lost if they indicate a potential recruit admitted to having a drug problem, drinking problem or some other issue that is clearly not known to the high school coach. Or at least the HS coach is unwilling to mention it due to privacy laws.

I admit there may well be a very few coaches who would ignore that info, but I can guarantee you they are few and far between.

Most coaches are smart enough to learn as much as possible about potential recruits during the recruiting process. Just because the info comes from their players does not mean they consider it "stupid, worthless" information.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Switzer asked his players about how they viewed recruits. I remember one Texas running back who we backed off because the players thought he was too interested in himself.

I think it's a great idea to get feedback from your players and listen to it, consider it and act on it.

If you can get a player to visit without offering a ship, feedback from players is certainly not a bad thing.

Regarding the player Switzer passed on, I'm surprised he did not find out those things when the coaching staff checked out the recruit before inviting him to Norman.

 

[SoonerinNC]

Input is not the same as allowing the players to VETO. The coach has the ultimate responsibility for the team. No sane coach would turn down a player who they felt could make them a better team simply because some player(s) didn't like them.

Sometimes this kumbaya stuff goes too far. Sometimes you need someone who will get into their teammates faces and tell them to shape up. If everyone is feeling compelled to love everyone on the team they are unlikely to exert any personal leadership.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Input is not the same as allowing the players to VETO. The coach has the ultimate responsibility for the team. No sane coach would turn down a player who they felt could make them a better team simply because some player(s) didn't like them.

Sometimes this kumbaya stuff goes too far. Sometimes you need someone who will get into their teammates faces and tell them to shape up. If everyone is feeling compelled to love everyone on the team they are unlikely to exert any personal leadership.

I agree!

 

[sybarite]

Kumbaya? Let's see. A player or group of players who have been with the prospect at a time when out of sight of the coach discovered something about a prospect that pertains to character or the tendency for disruption. That player or group of players suggests that this prospect might not be conducive to success. This has nothing to do with a kumbaya attitude and everything to do with the effect that the prospect might have on the program. This isn't a bunch of girls who don't like the way she brushes her hair. This is a workplace experience. Any sane and competent manager (coach) wants this type of information prior to a hire.

 

[35TangoTango]

It's Norm against the world. He wants to use getting advice from players as a negative for Sherri, and it won't work for him if other good coaches do it, so he's refusing to admit the obvious.

 

[SoonerNorm]

It's Norm against the world. He wants to use getting advice from players as a negative for Sherri, and it won't work for him if other good coaches do it, so he's refusing to admit the obvious.

No one knows if any recruits have been nixed by the players so how could it be a negative toward Sherri???

Are the coaches wrong who offer recruits before they meet the team?

 

[NMSooner'80]

Switzer asked his players about how they viewed recruits. I remember one Texas running back who we backed off because the players thought he was too interested in himself.

I think it's a great idea to get feedback from your players and listen to it, consider it and act on it.

I guess we'll never know, but it would have been interesting to have heard scuttlebutt on how some of the men's players interacted with then-recruits like Tiny Gallon and Tommy Mason-Griffin. They must have been toxic once they got on campus, and they wound up being a 13-win team with three McDonald's All-Americans. That team was an utter embarrassment, and I also as least suspect part of the problem was that Capel thought his "cool" would unify the team that season.