Eddie Sutton denied HOF again

[Sooner04]

I know how this thread will end.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Ouch...that one had more to do with “corruption” than Coach Iba. Russia got to experience their karma just 8 short years later (though that one was fair and square).

If OU fans are in agreement that Eddie Sutton should be in the HOF, I can’t imagine too many basketball fans outside Lexington, KY who would disagree.

disagree did they get screwed? yes did his coaching style also cause a team that should have blown teams out to play a close game a lose absolutly 100%

 

[TulsaWorld]

I promise I have Sooner basketball content to share today as well, but as long I visited this thread...

Bill Haisten follows up with the HOF decision...

On five previous occasions when Eddie Sutton had been a Naismith finalist, the answer was no. When it was announced a few weeks ago that the former Oklahoma State coach again was a finalist, it just made no sense that he would be denied a sixth time.

There are eight NCAA Division I men’s college basketball coaches with a career total of at least 800 wins. Having retired with 806, Sutton is the only one of the eight who is not a member of the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.

How cold-blooded would that be — to position an 83-year-old man for another emotional setback?

...

From an unidentified panel of 24 voters, a finalist must receive at least 18 votes. Accountability is not required of the voters.

Transparency? None. It isn’t known whether Sutton got one vote or five votes or 10 or 17.

...

I believed that the voters would realize how petty and wrong it had been to keep him out, and that it’s time to make things right for a coach who turned 83 a few weeks ago.

I stand corrected, and I’m reminded of a sentence from a Tulsa World column in early March: “If it doesn’t happen — if the Naismith voters again say no to Sutton — it qualifies as pointless cruelty.”

Our cartoonist Bruce Plante had a take on the decision as well.

 

[Zimwillett]

Believe it or not, I pretty much agree with WT here. I think Eddie gets a lot more sympathy and support because of his age and health. If he were 20 years younger with the exact same resume, good and bad, I think more people would say that his cheating and off court issues should keep him out. It has always struck me how there are a lot of analysts who still take shots at Kelvin and hold his much less significant violations against him, but are seemingly pro-Sutton. I'm all for forgiving the guy, but putting him in the Hall seems a bit much.

I freely admit my sympathies toward Eddie are health and age related. So what?

As for Eddie's past, it is all but an open secret that John Wooden's success was fueled by one of the most extensive and brazen cheating scandals in the history of college sports. It lasted years. The evidence is pretty strong that Wooden likely knew about the shady stuff Sam Gilbert was doing. At a minimum, he definitely should have known. Gilbert was buying UCLA players cars, clothes, airline tickets, giving them cash, etc. Despite all of that there's no debate about Wooden's Hall of Fame induction. He's revered. Awards are named after him.

So yeah. In this context, I'm all for giving an old man his due.

 

[ellissooner]

I guess he’s college basketball’s version of Pete Rose. Ironically, the highlight of both their scandals was in 1989. The respective HOF Committees have made their point on both - no gambling / no cheating. Message sent loud and clear. However, it’s time to get these guys in based on their on-the-court (field) credentials.

Then why is Calipari and Pitino in and What about Kentucky's legendary coach Rupp. Wasnt there some point shaving scandal under his watch plus his racist views. His cheating was not any worse than the above.

 

[coolm]

Can't say I am the biggest Eddie Sutton fan but he was a darn good coach. Loved that Arkansas team and some of his OSU teams had a fight to them that you had to respect. leaving him out is just plain silliness.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Buncha cowpoke sympathizers in here.

Dude cheated at UK. He drove drunk and could have killed somebody, and covered it up at OSU. He pissed on the wall at some elementary school. He enabled his son to be abuse prescription pain pills. And most importantly, it has been STRONGLY suggested that he played a part in turning Kelvin in to the NCAA initially, all while doing shady things himself.

Dude can go jump in a lake for all I care.

This and i think his retirement coaching at that san Francisco university, the dons or whatever, just so he could get to 800 was pretty lame

 

[AdaSooner]

Can't say I am the biggest Eddie Sutton fan but he was a darn good coach. Loved that Arkansas team and some of his OSU teams had a fight to them that you had to respect. leaving him out is just plain silliness.

I don’t think anyone is questioning Eddie’s HOF qualifications as a coach. If acceptance into the hall was all about a candidate’s accomplishments as a player, Pete Rose would have been voted in ago. And, IMO, he should have been.

But, if character, breaking the rules or the law and how you conduct yourself on a personal level means anything, Eddie Sutton is no more deserving than Pete Rose. I think you could also argue that RMK and perhaps others should not be allowed in if Eddie and Pete are not eligible.

I feel sorry for Eddie. It makes me sad to see him in the shape he’s in right now. There is no doubt he was a great coach. Is that all there is to being inducted into the HOF? I’m glad someone else will have to make that decision.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

Regarding character, the following coaches are in the Naismith Hall of Fame:

Larry Brown
John Calipari
Bob Knight
Rick Pitino
Jerry Tarkanian

BTW, there is more than one basketball Hall of Fame. Eddie Sutton was inducted into the National Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame in 2011.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Collegiate_Basketball_Hall_of_Fame

*****************

 

[Zimwillett]

Regarding character, the following coaches are in the Naismith Hall of Fame:

Larry Brown
John Calipari
Bob Knight
Rick Pitino
Jerry Tarkanian

BTW, there is more than one basketball Hall of Fame. Eddie Sutton was inducted into the National Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame in 2011.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Collegiate_Basketball_Hall_of_Fame

*****************

Oof. Not a good look for the "the Hall of Fame is only for the cleanest of gentlemen" crowd. Rick Pitino is the scumbags' scumbag. His program was literally running what amounted to a prostitution ring for the benefit of high school students, out of a campus dorm. He's now basically directly implicated in the Adidas pay for play scandal.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Oof. Not a good look for the "the Hall of Fame is only for the cleanest of gentlemen" crowd. Rick Pitino is the scumbags' scumbag. His program was literally running what amounted to a prostitution ring for the benefit of high school students, out of a campus dorm. He's now basically directly implicated in the Adidas pay for play scandal.

Who has made that argument? There is a difference between character and being a proven cheater. There are plenty of character flaws that don't impact coaching or the sport. Bob Knight is a perfect example. Obviously he is a jerk in many ways, but he also is someone who never cheated and followed NCAA rules to the letter of the law. If Eddie's off the court issues were his only black mark, I think he would probably be in. But the cheating is likely what is keeping him out.

If Pitino or some of the others had been proven to be cheaters before they were elected into the HOF, I wouldn't have had any complaints if they hadn't been elected, either. Just my opinion, I know others disagree and that's fine. I just don't want anyone thinking that I think the Hall should only be open to overall nice guys, lol.

 

[TulsaWorld]

I will post some OU spring football updates on the non-basketball forum in return for continuing this non-OU thread right after I post this Mike Gundy quote...

“I think we need to know who voted. We’re trying to get the Mueller report. We’ve got a subpoena to get that. Why don’t we know who the 24 people are that voted? I don’t know anything about that stuff. Hall of fames are what they are, but the guy’s got 800 wins. He coached at Kentucky and that’s obviously a blue-blood (program), but he coached at places where people have not always had tremendous success and he had tremendous success. So I think it’s a really sad deal.

“I (could) say, ‘Well, somebody said it’s because they had a probation at Kentucky or something, but there’s people in there that had probation, too, right? So I’m not buying that. ... I’m partial to the Suttons and I don’t understand it, but I’m not going to go way out there because I could get myself in trouble. But honestly, I think it’s a bunch of bulls---. That’s just my personal opinion.”

 

[Zimwillett]

Who has made that argument? There is a difference between character and being a proven cheater. There are plenty of character flaws that don't impact coaching or the sport. Bob Knight is a perfect example. Obviously he is a jerk in many ways, but he also is someone who never cheated and followed NCAA rules to the letter of the law. If Eddie's off the court issues were his only black mark, I think he would probably be in. But the cheating is likely what is keeping him out.

If Pitino or some of the others had been proven to be cheaters before they were elected into the HOF, I wouldn't have had any complaints if they hadn't been elected, either. Just my opinion, I know others disagree and that's fine. I just don't want anyone thinking that I think the Hall should only be open to overall nice guys, lol.

I wouldn't hold you to that standard . Reasonable minds can disagree on Sutton.

From my perspective, Sutton is basically being punished because he got caught early on. The other guys (Pitino, Self, etc.) are all but assured to become "proven cheaters," but will get the benefit of being inducted prior to being caught. That seems unjust to me, especially in light of the fact that, as far as I know, Eddie didn't have a problem with the NCAA again after he left Kentucky (at least he didn't get caught).

 

[Max Power]

I wouldn't hold you to that standard . Reasonable minds can disagree on Sutton.

From my perspective, Sutton is basically being punished because he got caught early on. The other guys (Pitino, Self, etc.) are all but assured to become "proven cheaters," but will get the benefit of being inducted prior to being caught. That seems unjust to me, especially in light of the fact that, as far as I know, Eddie didn't have a problem with the NCAA again after he left Kentucky (at least he didn't get caught).

I personally wouldn't put Eddie in because of the cheating. As far as others that are in then got caught, i would have them removed. Just 1 mans opinion though.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

Larry Brown Busted Cheating for 3rd Time by the NCAA
https://thebiglead.com/2015/09/29/larry-brown-smu-cheating-violations/

This should not come as a surprise to anybody. Larry “Next Town” Brown has held three college basketball coaching gigs, and been busted by the NCAA three times.

After a successful run at Kansas in the 1980s – including a title with Danny Manning – the Jayhawks were hit with rules violations, the most embarrassing being banned from the 1989 NCAA Tournament just one year after winning the championship.

Brown also coached at UCLA in the late 70s/early 80s, where he led the Bruins to an NCAA title game. But that appearance was vacated after two of his players were found to have been ineligible.

Larry Brown was enshrined in the Basketball Hall of Fame as a coach on September 27, 2002.

Obviously, repeatedly cheating and getting caught does not keep certain people out of the HOF.

 

[TulsaWorld]

Barry Switzer also weighed in...

The former Oklahoma coach became eligible for the College Football Hall of Fame in 1991. Not including a 1994-97 period where he was ineligible since he was coaching the Dallas Cowboys, it wasn’t until 2001 that one of college football’s winningest coaches (157-29-4 in 16 seasons) was enshrined.

“I don’t understand it on Eddie. I more so understand it on me because of all the negative crap that happened here and how the sanctimonious b------ — were,” Switzer said. “People always asked me, every year, how come you aren’t in the Hall of Fame? I’d say you are asking the wrong guy. You have to ask them … They didn’t have an answer for it. They always gave a bull-- — answer. It got to be laughable. I’d just laugh at it every year.

“Eddie is going through the same thing. I don’t know why they are doing what they are doing to Eddie. I just don’t understand it.”

Switzer has developed a friendship with Sutton. During a Friday interview, he journeyed down memory lane back to the time he watched Sutton play point guard for OSU when they faced Kansas State in the 1958 NCAA Tournament in Lawrence, Kansas. Switzer hitchhiked to Allen Fieldhouse to watch his alma mater Arkansas face Cincinnati at the same event.

Sutton is now in poor health, and Switzer said he’s made phone calls and visits to see the coach over the years.

“I just hate to see what he’s dealing with,” Switzer said.

...

“They’re cowards. That pisses me off,” Switzer said of the confidential votes. “I always thought about that when they talk about that. Step up there.”

 

[MsProudSooner]

Thanks for posting that.

 

[ellissooner]

What's funny is that the NCAA absolved Eddie of any wrongdoing in the UK scandal but the HOF still holds it against him. Or maybe its the drunk driving issue.

It makes me wonder if there is something else hanging in Eddie's closet that they are holding against him. To me no coach should be in until they retire because Calipari and Pitino are 2 very dirty suckers and they are in the Hall.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Barry Switzer also weighed in...

Switzer telling it like it is, and so does Mike Gundy.

Speaking of Gundy, he's a treasure. I hope he coaches for many years, because he's a good guy. OSU needs to leave him alone and pray he stays for a long time.