Facts

Postman77

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This season has completely fallen apart, but most are blind (or choose to be) to the actual reasons.

Fact: Trae is an unbelievable talent, that is and will always be a polarizing figure. Trae has never, and will NEVER play defense or rebound, and that has cost this team physically and emotionally.

Fact: Trae's time spent on-ball has been, and is counter-productive to a team. Just about every basketball coach was telling you that the way we played early in the season was (and is) not sustainable. Dribble Drive teams have long had issues being able to win consistently late in season and in March. This is true on the high school and college level. It leads to stagnation of offense, lack of opportunities to score in "tough" game moments, and is subjected to the whim of the whistle (which we know is not consistent). The great NCAA programs either have a post game to be able to draw tough buckets, or have the ability to run set pieces to multiple options to keep defenses honest...we have neither.

Fact: Trae has never been able to produce for his team in playoffs or late season. He couldn't do it in high school (failed to win a State Title with 4 D-1 players), and didn't even get there the other three years--simply put: he struggles with leading. He is a side-show...a gifted sideshow, but not a consistent and reliable weapon either in taking care of the ball or defensively. These areas cost teams heavily over the course of the season. He gives as much momentum over a year as he creates.

Fact: OU has plenty of recruited talent...that talent just does not fit with the Trae Young experiment. That is not those kids fault (or Trae's). Bottom line--Trae struggles to play with structure--the rest of the team needs it. Manek had success early on because he could just catch and shoot. Obviously, we see the change over time. Doolittle and McGusty are very gifted--and just a year ago, OU was hearing from NBA scouts that they would probably lose the former after his Soph year to the league. That doesn't change overnight. Difference? Those players were having opportunities schemed for them last year...this year, they haven't. McGusty is ball-dominant just like trae which causes friction...to be honest Odomes is much the same (cannot score off the ball). Doolittle, James, Lattin, Shep, and others operate much better in structured settings...where certain action can be expected, manipulated, executed, and then played off of.

Fact: Trae's 28 foot 3 point shooting is demoralizing for a team. Particularly, when he often does it 14 seconds in a shot-clock. No one wants to bust there tail to defend 4 on 5, sprint the floor, just to watch you loft a ridiculous shot, so you can sprint back on D to do it all over again.

Fact: When a single player is overly ball-dominant--other players suffer. There is no rhythm, no flow, and you go from standing to shooting all to often. Does it need to be better? Yes! Is that ever highly sustainable?? NO!!! Anyone who has actually played the game can attest to this. Bottom line.
 
I agree with just about everything posted.
It's leadership and chemistry that is lacking.
 
This season has completely fallen apart, but most are blind (or choose to be) to the actual reasons.

Fact: Trae is an unbelievable talent, that is and will always be a polarizing figure. Trae has never, and will NEVER play defense or rebound, and that has cost this team physically and emotionally.

Fact: Trae's time spent on-ball has been, and is counter-productive to a team. Just about every basketball coach was telling you that the way we played early in the season was (and is) not sustainable. Dribble Drive teams have long had issues being able to win consistently late in season and in March. This is true on the high school and college level. It leads to stagnation of offense, lack of opportunities to score in "tough" game moments, and is subjected to the whim of the whistle (which we know is not consistent). The great NCAA programs either have a post game to be able to draw tough buckets, or have the ability to run set pieces to multiple options to keep defenses honest...we have neither.

Fact: Trae has never been able to produce for his team in playoffs or late season. He couldn't do it in high school (failed to win a State Title with 4 D-1 players), and didn't even get there the other three years--simply put: he struggles with leading. He is a side-show...a gifted sideshow, but not a consistent and reliable weapon either in taking care of the ball or defensively. These areas cost teams heavily over the course of the season. He gives as much momentum over a year as he creates.

Fact: OU has plenty of recruited talent...that talent just does not fit with the Trae Young experiment. That is not those kids fault (or Trae's). Bottom line--Trae struggles to play with structure--the rest of the team needs it. Manek had success early on because he could just catch and shoot. Obviously, we see the change over time. Doolittle and McGusty are very gifted--and just a year ago, OU was hearing from NBA scouts that they would probably lose the former after his Soph year to the league. That doesn't change overnight. Difference? Those players were having opportunities schemed for them last year...this year, they haven't. McGusty is ball-dominant just like trae which causes friction...to be honest Odomes is much the same (cannot score off the ball). Doolittle, James, Lattin, Shep, and others operate much better in structured settings...where certain action can be expected, manipulated, executed, and then played off of.

Fact: Trae's 28 foot 3 point shooting is demoralizing for a team. Particularly, when he often does it 14 seconds in a shot-clock. No one wants to bust there tail to defend 4 on 5, sprint the floor, just to watch you loft a ridiculous shot, so you can sprint back on D to do it all over again.

Fact: When a single player is overly ball-dominant--other players suffer. There is no rhythm, no flow, and you go from standing to shooting all to often. Does it need to be better? Yes! Is that ever highly sustainable?? NO!!! Anyone who has actually played the game can attest to this. Bottom line.

Thanks Postman. Any insight on plans to right the ship?
 
Some fact but a lot of rolling my eyes.. Ya the nba talented guy is the problem.. not the perpetual softies on the team.

No, if only they had "structure", then they'd be making layups, open threes, and not softly turning over balls with drops and rips from them constantly..

If your proposal is simply why we suck. Then why is kruger allowing it? Kruger has never had much offensive structure btw.

The real problem is no player is held accountable by Kruger. If trae flatly will not play defense at all to any degree (none of these players do and atleast Trae has offense), sit him a full game or until he tries and if he doesn't like it and wont change, tell him to transfer or quit (Trae would respond when he was told that potential bad character could hurt his draft status). He is far from the only problem on defense but lots of people here like to make him the scapegoat bc he is the most talented player..
 
Some fact but a lot of rolling my eyes.. Ya the nba talented guy is the problem.. not the perpetual softies on the team.

No, if only they had "structure", then they'd be making layups, open threes, and not softly turning over balls with drops and rips from them constantly..

If your proposal is simply why we suck. Then why is kruger allowing it? Kruger has never had much offensive structure btw.

The real problem is no player is held accountable by Kruger. If trae flatly will not play defense at all to any degree (none of these players do and atleast Trae has offense), sit him a full game or until he tries and if he doesn't like it and wont change, tell him to transfer or quit (Trae would respond when he was told that potential bad character could hurt his draft status). He is far from the only problem on defense but lots of people here like to make him the scapegoat bc he is the most talented player..

If you paid attention to what I said--I never made Trae the problem. It is about the pieces not fitting. That isn't Trae's fault, but it isn't the guys around him either. Simply put...it was an attempt to capture lightning in a bottle. It didn't work. Sometimes that happens. However, for everyone else to bash the rest of these kids (some extensively recruited), is just as ludicrous as it is to bash Trae. I pointed out a few things that Trae has always been--and always will be. That's why is chose OU--so he could continue to be what he wanted, and play the way he wanted to play. It simply doesn't fit with the rest of the team.
 
Thanks Postman. Any insight on plans to right the ship?

I don't see how it happens this year to be honest. Too much spilled milk at this point. However, going forward, the talent is not as lean as many suggest. I think they need to look at over-hauling the system. They went this style a few years ago due to the NCAA push that the game was going to be called for freedom of movement. Obviously, that never remains the case throughout a year. Go back to Jordan Woodard's frosh season--and how much he went to the FT line. We have to be more multiple both offensively and defensively...something that is tough to do this late in the game.
 
I don't see how it happens this year to be honest. Too much spilled milk at this point. However, going forward, the talent is not as lean as many suggest. I think they need to look at over-hauling the system. They went this style a few years ago due to the NCAA push that the game was going to be called for freedom of movement. Obviously, that never remains the case throughout a year. Go back to Jordan Woodard's frosh season--and how much he went to the FT line. We have to be more multiple both offensively and defensively...something that is tough to do this late in the game.

What do you think about Kur Kuath? And also, I think the question everyone is wondering... Does OU have plans for PG next year assuming Trae is gone?
 
What do you think about Kur Kuath? And also, I think the question everyone is wondering... Does OU have plans for PG next year assuming Trae is gone?

Right now, another poster stated it already: I'm hearing they are desperate to land a grad transfer.

As far as Kuath, he still has a little ways to go--I have a feeling that those posters who hate Lattin will be disappointed.
 
This season has completely fallen apart, but most are blind (or choose to be) to the actual reasons.

Fact: Trae is an unbelievable talent, that is and will always be a polarizing figure. Trae has never, and will NEVER play defense or rebound, and that has cost this team physically and emotionally.

Fact: Trae's time spent on-ball has been, and is counter-productive to a team. Just about every basketball coach was telling you that the way we played early in the season was (and is) not sustainable. Dribble Drive teams have long had issues being able to win consistently late in season and in March. This is true on the high school and college level. It leads to stagnation of offense, lack of opportunities to score in "tough" game moments, and is subjected to the whim of the whistle (which we know is not consistent). The great NCAA programs either have a post game to be able to draw tough buckets, or have the ability to run set pieces to multiple options to keep defenses honest...we have neither.

Fact: Trae has never been able to produce for his team in playoffs or late season. He couldn't do it in high school (failed to win a State Title with 4 D-1 players), and didn't even get there the other three years--simply put: he struggles with leading. He is a side-show...a gifted sideshow, but not a consistent and reliable weapon either in taking care of the ball or defensively. These areas cost teams heavily over the course of the season. He gives as much momentum over a year as he creates.

Fact: OU has plenty of recruited talent...that talent just does not fit with the Trae Young experiment. That is not those kids fault (or Trae's). Bottom line--Trae struggles to play with structure--the rest of the team needs it. Manek had success early on because he could just catch and shoot. Obviously, we see the change over time. Doolittle and McGusty are very gifted--and just a year ago, OU was hearing from NBA scouts that they would probably lose the former after his Soph year to the league. That doesn't change overnight. Difference? Those players were having opportunities schemed for them last year...this year, they haven't. McGusty is ball-dominant just like trae which causes friction...to be honest Odomes is much the same (cannot score off the ball). Doolittle, James, Lattin, Shep, and others operate much better in structured settings...where certain action can be expected, manipulated, executed, and then played off of.

Fact: Trae's 28 foot 3 point shooting is demoralizing for a team. Particularly, when he often does it 14 seconds in a shot-clock. No one wants to bust there tail to defend 4 on 5, sprint the floor, just to watch you loft a ridiculous shot, so you can sprint back on D to do it all over again.

Fact: When a single player is overly ball-dominant--other players suffer. There is no rhythm, no flow, and you go from standing to shooting all to often. Does it need to be better? Yes! Is that ever highly sustainable?? NO!!! Anyone who has actually played the game can attest to this. Bottom line.

If you paid attention to what I said--I never made Trae the problem. It is about the pieces not fitting. That isn't Trae's fault, but it isn't the guys around him either. Simply put...it was an attempt to capture lightning in a bottle. It didn't work. Sometimes that happens. However, for everyone else to bash the rest of these kids (some extensively recruited), is just as ludicrous as it is to bash Trae. I pointed out a few things that Trae has always been--and always will be. That's why is chose OU--so he could continue to be what he wanted, and play the way he wanted to play. It simply doesn't fit with the rest of the team.

Youre right. Clearly my reading comprehension is not up to speed..
 
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"That is not those kids fault (or Trae's). Bottom line--Trae struggles to play with structure--the rest of the team needs it."

No problem--common mistake these days. It's a dying art.
 
The "rest of the guys" won 11 games last year too. Granted, they didn't have a true pg most of that time, and they are a year older, but if you take TY off this team, we suck even worse than we currently do.

This team/roster/program has a lot of problems right now. TY and his style is one of them. The talent around him is one. Coaching is one of them. Plenty of blame to go around.
 
"That is not those kids fault (or Trae's). Bottom line--Trae struggles to play with structure--the rest of the team needs it."

No problem--common mistake these days. It's a dying art.

Oh ya. You said its not his fault one time. Sure, that cancels out the exhaustive list where you nearly solely criticised Trae and then forwarded a false premise where the team just had no possible way ever they could play together and be successful.. despite the fact that the early season results clearly negated your false premise..

It couldn't possibly just be that Kruger needs to rip some asses and demand effort.. No, never.
 
Right now, another poster stated it already: I'm hearing they are desperate to land a grad transfer.

As far as Kuath, he still has a little ways to go--I have a feeling that those posters who hate Lattin will be disappointed.

Check out this link to Kauth’s juco stats and you’ll know what Postman means when he says posters who hate Lattin will be disappointed. He’s averaging 11 points and 7 rebs per game. He’s shooting 17% from three and 57% from the free throw line.

http://njcaa.org/sports/mbkb/2017-18/div1/players/kurkuathbjqi

Let’s hope he can block every shot put up in the paint with his 6’ 9” slender frame and 89” reach. Offense doesn’t appear to be his strength.
 
This season has completely fallen apart, but most are blind (or choose to be) to the actual reasons.



Fact: Trae's 28 foot 3 point shooting is demoralizing for a team. Particularly, when he often does it 14 seconds in a shot-clock. No one wants to bust there tail to defend 4 on 5, sprint the floor, just to watch you loft a ridiculous shot, so you can sprint back on D to do it all over again.

Love Trae to death but this is more true than most probably understand. I've played with and against some highly regarded shooters and felt that frustration myself. Not saying Trae should never take those shots but he can get those shots anytime. Work for a good one first, if nothing comes available you can take that tough 3 late in the shot clock only now you made the defense really work. The bonus is that for a defense, a tough made 3 after they've defended is much more demoralizing than one early in the clock
 
How quickly some forget about all those "easy/open" shots TY created for his teammates, that they missed.

Like I said, there is PLENTY of blame to go around. But even if TY is most of the problem, we pay LK a lot of money to make the pieces fit.
 
There is a reason OU won 11 games last year and it is the talent or lack there of. We just don't have a lot of shot makers. And ones that did last year(Doolittle and McGusty) regressed this year.

Expectations got way too high the first half of the year because of one guy. McGusty and Doolittle not producing should have been a warning sign.
 
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