Griffin

[SoonerNorm]

Actually, it was Griffin for 4:55 and Kaylon for 1:26. Griffin 9-0. Kaylon 8-2. Louisville was 0-9 with Griffin in, 0-1 with Kaylon. Griffin had one rebound, Kaylon zero. Kaylon had a layup. But, these were the centers when OU ran out to a 17-2 lead. Was there a reason? Why was Louisville 0-10? Luck?

If you think Griffin was responsible for the 17-2 start, you need to watch the game.

 

[atlantasooner]

syb,
poor perimeter shooting by lville and ou's perimeter defense is the reason ou jumped out to a lead.
that and vegas got out to a hot start.

Griffin had a bad game. Move on.
It would not be any kind of perpetual discussion except there's no post depth at all.
Griffin's struggling, Sherri only can go to Kaylon.

We saw the ugly results of what happens when Kaylon and Griffin are in foul trouble.
Campbell had a lousy game from 3. It's not going to get a lot of discussion because
OU has other 3 shooters.

 

[sybarite]

Vegas had five, as did Gioya.

Griffin had a bad game. Sherri said so.

BUT, that doesn't always tell the story. It makes a difference what other players are doing. Colton Coale has made the point that people shoot over Kaylon and score that are afraid to shoot over Griffin. Griffin and Kay Kay do a better job blocking out. It helps others get rebounds. Altering shots is important, and Griffin doesn't get credit for that.

17-2: There was a reason. It may not be that simple. Despite Griffin's poor game, something was working. Why didn't it work when she wasn't in the game? There is more to contribution than scoring and rebounds, and, yes, Griffin did have a rebound during that run.

Something else that was obvious. Kornet's name was mentioned a lot during that run, and she was in the game for most of it. They were doing something right.

 

[shydog]

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-basketball-nicole-griffin-looking-for-consistency/article/3906405

 

[soonermike22]

When you watch the game in person, and watch inside, you see how good a defensive presence Nicole G provides. Her offense was not good, but her hard work on defense helped make Louisville shoot outside, and was a major contributor to our good start. KK played well on defense also, but as Soonernorm said on his defense thread, just swings those hands downward and gets in foul trouble. (I was taught, and passed on hands up for dribble steals)
Both looked tired in the second half, especially late when little sister Schimmel did a lay up drill for Louisville. Nicole deserves credit for her good defense, and encouragement to improve her offensive aggressiveness and rebounding. When KK stays out of foul trouble, she also can be very good, but neither did a good job of rebounding or scoring inside.

 

[sybarite]

I didn't see this game. But, it sounded like Louisville was having difficulty getting the shot that they wanted until Griffin and Kay Kay went out. Then, they had all they wanted.

In other games, I have noticed that teams tend to avoid the basket area somewhat when Griffin is in the game. I don't remember whether it was Tubbs during a TV game or Coltan Coale during a radio game that stated that teams wouldn't shoot over Griffin, but they went to the basket when Kay Kay came in. In one game, they hadn't gone inside. Then, we put Kay Kay in the game. Within five seconds, someone shot a five foot jump shot over Kay Kay. It is difficult to shoot over 6-6. Gary Blair has been saying that since Griffin was a freshman. Seems people who like Blair still don't give Griffin credit.

I also notice that the team blocks out better when we have Griffin in the game. Kay Kay is pretty good. Kornet is pretty good. We have some problems elsewhere, except that we have some 5-7 guards who do block out. Sometimes, people reach over them, but they do block out. Kellogg seems to do this well. Even Sharane doesn't seem to block out well, and she is doing almost everything well this year. But, we have more defensive integrity with Griffin in the game. It would really help if she would at least try to get four buckets a game. She'll get enough free throws to make that into fourteen points.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I didn't see this game. But, it sounded like Louisville was having difficulty getting the shot that they wanted until Griffin and Kay Kay went out. Then, they had all they wanted.

In other games, I have noticed that teams tend to avoid the basket area somewhat when Griffin is in the game. I don't remember whether it was Tubbs during a TV game or Coltan Coale during a radio game that stated that teams wouldn't shoot over Griffin, but they went to the basket when Kay Kay came in. In one game, they hadn't gone inside. Then, we put Kay Kay in the game. Within five seconds, someone shot a five foot jump shot over Kay Kay. It is difficult to shoot over 6-6. Gary Blair has been saying that since Griffin was a freshman. Seems people who like Blair still don't give Griffin credit.

I also notice that the team blocks out better when we have Griffin in the game. Kay Kay is pretty good. Kornet is pretty good. We have some problems elsewhere, except that we have some 5-7 guards who do block out. Sometimes, people reach over them, but they do block out. Kellogg seems to do this well. Even Sharane doesn't seem to block out well, and she is doing almost everything well this year. But, we have more defensive integrity with Griffin in the game. It would really help if she would at least try to get four buckets a game. She'll get enough free throws to make that into fourteen points.

I don't think there is any evidence the team blocks out better when Griffin is in the game. While we all like to see both, let me say this about blocking out, given the choice of blocking out or rebounding, I will take rebounding every day. Griffin is almost always good at blocking out. Not always good at rebounding.

I will give Griffin credit for playing well the first three games. I will not give her credit for playing well against Louisville. As she said, she needs to be more consistent which is what has plagued her since her freshman year. We really don't need for her to play well when we play weak teams but when we play a Louisville, Duke, Baylor, or ISU we need her to be at her best.

 

[j2d2]

I dont think NG is very good at either blocking out or rebounding(against other than warm-up teams).

 

[35TangoTango]

Say what you will, we didn't shut Louisville out the first four minutes without all 5 players playing really well.

 

[scrybe]

I said this previously, but I still don't understand why Nicole is scorned by so many of our fans/posters. The young lady is a big (pun intended) contributor, though – like all players – she'll always be better some games than others.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I said this previously, but I still don't understand why Nicole is scorned by so many of our fans/posters. The young lady is a big (pun intended) contributor, though – like all players – she'll always be better some games than others.

When she plays aggressively, she generally plays well. But, even Sherri said she didn't play well against L'ville.

 

[scrybe]

When she plays aggressively, she generally plays well. But, even Sherri said she didn't play well against L'ville.

I agree, it wasn't Nicole's best game. But I believe she contributed and was more an asset than a liability.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I agree, it wasn't Nicole's best game. But I believe she contributed and was more an asset than a liability.

All she has to do to get more praise from coaches and fans is to play with more consistency. She just cannot play well against the pansies then not show up against the really good teams.

Kaylon has committed too many fouls. That's not helping the team either. We need for both to play hard and play smart.

 

[soonermike22]

SOONERNORM -[ While we all like to see both, let me say this about blocking out, given the choice of blocking out or rebounding, I will take rebounding every day. Griffin is almost always good at blocking out. Not always good at rebounding.
SOONERMIKE22 An integral part of a good rebounding TEAM is ALL players blocking out on defense. If they do not, an offensive player is released with a good chance of offensive rebounds and an easy basket. If the bigs block out well, guards can go inside the block outs and get easy rebounds-that's one reason AE got double digit rebounds against Louisville. NG blocks out well, but is not good at releasing to go get the ball. She HAS learned to make the effort to keep their big away from the basket. Hence not many rebounds for her, but good for the team. A players contribution is not always reflected in the stats, or just on the offensive end. NG had a poor game offensively, but not on defense.

 

[SoonerNorm]

SOONERNORM -[ While we all like to see both, let me say this about blocking out, given the choice of blocking out or rebounding, I will take rebounding every day. Griffin is almost always good at blocking out. Not always good at rebounding.
SOONERMIKE22 An integral part of a good rebounding TEAM is ALL players blocking out on defense. If they do not, an offensive player is released with a good chance of offensive rebounds and an easy basket. If the bigs block out well, guards can go inside the block outs and get easy rebounds-that's one reason AE got double digit rebounds against Louisville. NG blocks out well, but is not good at releasing to go get the ball. She HAS learned to make the effort to keep their big away from the basket. Hence not many rebounds for her, but good for the team. A players contribution is not always reflected in the stats, or just on the offensive end. NG had a poor game offensively, but not on defense.

In theory, I agree with much of what you said. However, in practice, you don't often see the best rebounder worrying a great deal about blocking out. I'm sure we all watched Courtney for 4 years. She seldom ever blocked out anybody. Same with Blake Griffin. Dennis Rodman was another. They all got good position and went after the ball. Often when an offensive player gets a rebound and puts it back in the basket, that player wasn't blocking out anyone, but rather got better position and grabbed the ball and scored while other defenders were worried about blocking out. That is why I said, I like to see both but if we can only have one (blocking out or rebounding), I will take rebounding every day. Some players just have a nose for the ball. As long as they are grabbing rebounds, I can forgive the fact they didn't put a butt on someone much better than I can someone who worries so much about blocking out they never get a rebound.

 

[35TangoTango]

In theory, I agree with much of what you said. However, in practice, you don't often see the best rebounder worrying a great deal about blocking out. I'm sure we all watched Courtney for 4 years. She seldom ever blocked out anybody. Same with Blake Griffin. Dennis Rodman was another. They all got good position and went after the ball. Often when an offensive player gets a rebound and puts it back in the basket, that player wasn't blocking out anyone, but rather got better position and grabbed the ball and scored while other defenders were worried about blocking out. That is why I said, I like to see both but if we can only have one (blocking out or rebounding), I will take rebounding every day. Some players just have a nose for the ball. As long as they are grabbing rebounds, I can forgive the fact they didn't put a butt on someone much better than I can someone who worries so much about blocking out they never get a rebound.

Sure! So let's teach all our players to rebound but not block out? Don't think that dog will hunt.

 

[soonermike22]

Sorry, I probably didn't make the difference between the correct way to rebound on offense and defense clear. On DEFENSE you have to block out, then go get the ball, protect against the other team getting easy baskets. Courtney and Rodman did block out on the defensive end. NG does well at blocking out, less so at going to get the ball.
On the offensive end, the responsibilities are different.
A nose for the ball, timing, strength, jumping ability, and hustle allow you to get OFFENSIVE rebounds with no responsibility (unless you are supposed to be back on defense after you team shoots). You do not block out. Just go for the ball, with all sorts of tricks to help you. Rodman looped out of bounds under the basket, then backed onto the court and went up inside the defenders. NG is not good at all at this.
A good rebounder is good at both ends, but you can be effective on the defensive end just by working hard on blocking out, which NG does. The team is a better defensive rebounding team by blocking out.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Sure! So let's teach all our players to rebound but not block out? Don't think that dog will hunt.

That's not what I said.

 

[soonermike22]

I am off for barbeque and then to see the game. Interesting discussion, and why it is so hard to coach bb players to perfection. If you emphasize one part of basic basketball over another, different interpretations can result. Do you block out, or go for the ball?

Yes, you do .
Beat the hell outa texass

 

[brokebacksooner]

First, you didn't watch the game. Secondly, you need to check the stats again. It wasn't Griffin scoring or rebounding.

I made neither claim. I simply said who was in the game?

Want to try again?

Can you two just whip them out and get the measuring over with already? I swear; how many threads turn into a measuring contest between you two?