I can't believe coach won't hit the magic button

[skyvue]

Just curious, I've seen it mentioned that TMG should have been pulled. Who would you have run point in that situation?

In my opinion, there's the rub -- the fact that we had no one to bring in. McDAAs are well and good, but a coach has to build a bench behind them, to both support and push them.

Our guys were not getting pushed at all. They continued to play no matter how they performed.

Building a team is not, to date, Coach Capel's strength. He's proven to be adept at getting ballyhooed players in, but not at getting the glue guys you need behind them.

 

[AdaSooner]

In my opinion, there's the rub -- the fact that we had no one to bring in. McDAAs are well and good, but a coach has to build a bench behind them, to both support and push them.

Our guys were not getting pushed at all. They continued to play no matter how they performed.

Building a team is not, to date, Coach Capel's strength. He's proven to be adept at getting ballyhooed players in, but not at getting the glue guys you need behind them.

Sky, I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think Coach Capel could have done a better job of bringing in players who were good enough to push starters for playing time.

Youth and inexperience played a role this season. But OU has signed too many players in the last three years who barely sniffed the court, or they washed out for one reason or another before they had a chance to prove their worth.

It's impossible to develop quality depth when you lose guys like Pattillo, Early, Maze, Neysmith, Cannon and Clark early in their career every season. Five of those players (Pattillo, Clark, Cannon, Early and Neysmith) would have been juniors and seniors this season. Even one or two more upperclassmen on this year's roster could have made a huge difference.

IMO, Coach Capel has to start signing good players who are also good people; kids who don't mind hard work and who want to do the right things without being told or have someone watch their every move. We will never have the kind of depth it takes to win championships if we continue to lose players at an alarming rate, or bring in recruits who aren't capable of pushing the top guys for playing time.

 

[Sid]

Whoever. TJ Franklin, Pledger, whoever could dribble the ball and make a pass.

This type of mentality is why Capel had a bad season. He doesn't discipline TMG by pulling him or holding him out because without TMG we don't have a point and our chances of winning are very slim even against bad competition. The problem is TMG knows this, so he knows he's not going to get disciplined so why not force a shot with 30+ seconds left on the shot clock when you need a score and are still in the game? Coach can't do anything anyway.

This is the problem.

You pull him out and put somebody else in there not named TMG. The team was bad anyway, why not sacrifice a few games that we lost anyway to make a point?

Bingo! You nailed it. Jeff needs to realize he can't treat most college kids as professionals. The Griffin brothers were the exception not the rule. I might have missed it, but I don't recall seeing Jeff pull TMG off the floor one time this season after he made a stupid decision and have a teachable moment with the kid. As a result, TMG is making the same stupid decisions he made at the beginning of year.

Most young guys need to be coached hard until they get it. If they want to pout about it, sit their arse down at the end of the bench until they figure it out. If they are not teachable weed them out of the program. After the season is over, Jeff should approach Bob and ask him if he can borrow JS for the summer.

 

[Cheno]

Skyvue and Ada both had great posts. That's spot on.
That's one reason I hope OU lands that big white kid from Oklahoma that can play the perimeter. He's a glue type guy.

 

[IndySooner]

OMG don't even go there!

We had that before and it just wasn't enough for everyone.

This! I was happy with it, and would be happy with it again. But there's NO WAY most of the people on this board would be satisfied with a group of guys that went to the tourney every year, represented the school well with gritty play, yet never quite got over the hump into being a top-tier basketball program. They want their cake and eat it too!

 

[NickZepp]

OMG don't even go there!

We had that before and it just wasn't enough for everyone.

It was enough for most fans. Just because there were a few that wanted to run and gun like we did under Billy doesn't mean we didn't appreciate what Sampson did for us. Most of those run and gun fans don't remember the last few years with it when we weren't playing defense and were giving up about 90 a game.

 

[Cheno]

This! I was happy with it, and would be happy with it again. But there's NO WAY most of the people on this board would be satisfied with a group of guys that went to the tourney every year, represented the school well with gritty play, yet never quite got over the hump into being a top-tier basketball program. They want their cake and eat it too!

You don't think most of the fans on this board were happy with Sampson prior to the last few years when he got the program on probation and bolted?

 

[SoonerDan74012]

Jeff should approach Bob and ask him if he can borrow JS for the summer.

I have thrown that suggestion out there a couple of times and I think it's a good one.

 

[skyvue]

IMO, Coach Capel has to start signing good players who are also good people; kids who don't mind hard work and who want to do the right things without being told or have someone watch their every move. We will never have the kind of depth it takes to win championships if we continue to lose players at an alarming rate, or bring in recruits who aren't capable of pushing the top guys for playing time.

Very true.

 

[DenverSooner]

you know...the one that makes us have winning seasons, final fours, McD AA recruits, and score 100+ a game?

Why won't Capel just push that button?

Dang him. Doesn't he know that's what Sooner fans want?

Do you think he did a good job in his four years? Obviously last year was great. 08 was perfectly acceptable. But he is batting .500 on seasons and actually has a below .500 record against conference opponents. That is pretty bad when you consider how strong OU was last year.

 

[DenverSooner]

You don't think most of the fans on this board were happy with Sampson prior to the last few years when he got the program on probation and bolted?

I think most rational fans were happy with Sampson. I don't think most internet fans were happy. The internet brings out the negative and Sampson had a lot of critics.

 

[Cheno]

I think most rational fans were happy with Sampson. I don't think most internet fans were happy. The internet brings out the negative and Sampson had a lot of critics.

I think most were happy until the Lavender years and then things kind of went downhill for a number of reasons. I agree with you though.

 

[DenverSooner]

I think most were happy until the Lavender years and then things kind of went downhill for a number of reasons. I agree with you though.

I think you are mistaken. Sampson had major critics from day one. The guy was never accepted by a significant portion of fans.

The telephone calls were trully nothing but many OU fans use it to justify their opinoins about Sampson. The telephone calls were slightly worse than KU paying kids on senior night. Neither were a big deal.

 

[Cheno]

I think you are mistaken. Sampson had major critics from day one. The guy was never accepted by a significant portion of fans.

He may not have been accepted but he was supported by more than not.
When you treat people like he treated people you tend to piss people off. Comes with the territory.

The telephone calls were trully nothing but many OU fans use it to justify their opinoins about Sampson.

They were enough to get OU put on probation. Most people consider repeated recruiting violations kind of serious. In fact, he's basically been banished from coaching in NCAA D1 because of his lack of regards for the rule book.

The telephone calls were slightly worse than KU paying kids on senior night.

KU didn't try to gain an advantage over other teams. Unfortunately some boosters like to reward graduating seniors with suits and gifts valued under $400. Slightly different than trying to gain a recruiting edge. The kids were done playing and typically were the walk-ons and guys without pro futures. It shouldn't have happened but hardly the same thing. Nice try though

 

[SoonerfanTU]

KU didn't try to gain an advantage over other teams. Unfortunately some boosters like to reward graduating seniors with suits and gifts valued under $400. Slightly different than trying to gain a recruiting edge. The kids were done playing and typically were the walk-ons and guys without pro futures. It shouldn't have happened but hardly the same thing. Nice try though

Come on cheno.....one extra call per week, not even to the same recruits, isn't an advantage.

 

[DenverSooner]

They were enough to get OU put on probation. Most people consider repeated recruiting violations kind of serious. In fact, he's basically been banished from coaching in NCAA D1 because of his lack of regards for the rule book.

KU didn't try to gain an advantage over other teams. Unfortunately some boosters like to reward graduating seniors with suits and gifts valued under $400. Slightly different than trying to gain a recruiting edge. The kids were done playing and typically were the walk-ons and guys without pro futures. It shouldn't have happened but hardly the same thing. Nice try though

Paying players is wrong and most schools get put on probation for it. A few schools seem to not be held to the same rules as others. Why KU had zero probation I don't know but I do agree it was not a big deal, just a violation of the rules.

As far as the telephone calls being a big deal, that is nonsense. OU discovered the telephone calls and self reported. The NCAA told the AD to do nothing (not take action to stop it) while the NCAA investigated. As a result it continued for a few years. It amounted to less than one call per week per coach. The calls occurred simply because OU was not counting connections that resulted in an immediate hang up. It did not give OU any advantage in recruiting and resulted in minor probation (no forfiets, no post season ban, no television ban), OU gave up scholarships that were rarely used and agreed to modify recruiting practices for a season or two.

If the coaches were doing it to gain an advantage they would have hidden it. There was zero effort to hide anything. I think the basketball team was stupid to get itself into that situation and ultimately Sampson was responsible for the team so he was responsible for every one of the telephone calls but it was not a big deal.

 

[NMSooner'80]

I think you are mistaken. Sampson had major critics from day one. The guy was never accepted by a significant portion of fans.

The telephone calls were trully nothing but many OU fans use it to justify their opinoins about Sampson. The telephone calls were slightly worse than KU paying kids on senior night. Neither were a big deal.

Great minds think alike, at least on the use of "phone-gate" to blast away at anything good that happened between 1994-2007. Weren't there people in Oklahoma who vowed to become TCU fans even before Kelvin ever coached a game? And I do remember on various OU football boards that some boneheads blamed Kelvin for Bomar/Quinn-gate - instead of those two and the idiot booster from Big Red Sports.

I know I've also read other anecdotes from people on boards who have heard people say they'd rather see OU run-and-gun and be around .500 than play lower-scoring basketball and win consistently.

Either way, it's a shame that there is really no "magic button." I remain shocked to my core over this season, although I'll admit I live just far enough away to not know what the team chemistry really is like. There's still no good excuse for 17 losses in season where OU started out in pretty much every Top 25.

 

[afaSooner]

And here's what Baylor has done in the last 3 seasons after nearly getting the death penalty following the 02-03 season:

07-08 11 seed in the NCAAs, lost in the first round
08-09 struggled most of the year but advanced to the big 12 tournament final and then the NIT championship game
09-10 currently ranked #21, 23-6 overall record and 10-5 in the league

What a terrible program.

Senior- I think he's thinking of the Tony Bologna(Barone) days. :ez-laugh:

A&M is a good program anymore... they USED to suck.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Senior- I think he's thinking of the Tony Bologna(Barone) days. :ez-laugh:

A&M is a good program anymore... they USED to suck.

Actually, I was thinking of the Kermit Davis Jr. (8-21), Tony Barone (76-120)and Melvin Watkins (61-112) days. Not to mention Marty Karow (39-81), HR McQuillan (56-70), CF Bassett (16-18), Manning Smith (16-44), John Floyd (38-82), and Ken Loeffler (13-35).

All of those were coaches at aTm with losing overall records and some of them didn't win 40% of their games. 5 successful seasons does not constitute a good basketball program. If it did, Gillespie would never have left, and if he did leave they would have hired a bigger name than Turgeon. Think about it.

 

[stoops4pres]

In my opinion, there's the rub -- the fact that we had no one to bring in. McDAAs are well and good, but a coach has to build a bench behind them, to both support and push them.

Our guys were not getting pushed at all. They continued to play no matter how they performed.

Building a team is not, to date, Coach Capel's strength. He's proven to be adept at getting ballyhooed players in, but not at getting the glue guys you need behind them.

Agreed. I don't think anyone is arguing that Capel's biggest flaw to date have been the depletions from the role players he's signed (i.e. Maze, Patillo, etc. etc.)... Keeping those guys is imperative to keep a consistent program moving. I think he will learn from this and we will be fine (hopefully).