Is it time to accept that players leaving...

[NickZepp]

Is just a part of college basketball? I read posts in the past complaining about it with Sampson but under Capel we've had...

Keith Clark
Bobby Maze
Tony Neysmith
Chris Early
Kyle Cannon
and
Juan Patillo

all leave/kicked off in just 3 years.

No Chris, Tony, and Kyle never made an impact or never played. But still players leaving for whatever reason happens. I don't think you can really blame coaches for it. If you see me as a Sampson apologist for saying this then I'm also a Capel apologist. Players leaving in basketball happens a lot. Kansas has a couple guys off their roster leaving if I'm not mistaken.

 

[BigTime]

It is a part of college basketball. It also happens when you have to fill stop gaps at the last minute (Maze) and when you start recruiting over people (Cannon, Neysmith).

The ones that really hurt are the ones that were well liked on the team and would have made a difference on the court, but that could not get it done in the classroom (Moose and Juan).

 

[NickZepp]

It is a part of college basketball. It also happens when you have to fill stop gaps at the last minute (Maze) and when you start recruiting over people (Cannon, Neysmith).

The ones that really hurt are the ones that were well liked on the team and would have made a difference on the court, but that could not get it done in the classroom (Moose and Juan).

Chris Early could have probably made a difference too. We have trouble at the wing. I do get your point that we recruit over some guys like Maze and maybe Cannon, although Cannon probably gets a better shot at playing this year with all the guys we lost in the front court. But I thought Neysmith was a little different. Again outside of Crocker and Warren who do we really have at guard that is a lot better than Neysmith? Cade Davis has never shown he can be better than maybe a decent player so far.

 

[BigTime]

Chris Early could have probably made a difference too. We have trouble at the wing. I do get your point that we recruit over some guys like Maze and maybe Cannon, although Cannon probably gets a better shot at playing this year with all the guys we lost in the front court. But I thought Neysmith was a little different. Again outside of Crocker and Warren who do we really have at guard that is a lot better than Neysmith? Cade Davis has never shown he can be better than maybe a decent player so far.

Tony saw the writing on the wall with Willie and Ray coming in. He was already behind AJ and Omar at the point, and he was behind Cade and Crock at the wing. He left on good terms (both academically and without any off the court problems) because he didn't think he would play anytime soon.

Fact of the matter is, with Willis flopping last year, he may seen minutes. In today's day and age of players leaving early and not panning out, I think one should think very carefully before deciding to go elsewhere for fear on not getting PT.

 

[soonertboy824]

The difference is that we arent losing key contributors. under sampson we were starters were transfering but under capel he got rid of maze and pattillo which were the only starters. Most of the other guys hardly played

 

[Krugerfan52]

Like soonerboy824 there is a difference in starters and MAA's like Drew Lavender and Ryan Humphrey transferring vs guys like Neysmith and Cannon leaving because they are getting recruited over.

Capel is brining in 4-5 star guys every year. Most of those guys on Zepp's list are being replaced by better players. Thats part of the transition from Sampson to Capel. Capel had to get who he could since he was left with a mess. Now Capel is not recruiting the Bobby Maze's of the world. He's getting quality HS players.

But yes, it is true that kids transfer more now than they did 20 years ago.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

The difference is that we arent losing key contributors. under sampson we were starters were transfering but under capel he got rid of maze and pattillo which were the only starters. Most of the other guys hardly played

How do we know? They may not have contributed yet, but Patillo was being counted on to start, Cannon was suppose to be ready for major minutes, Maze started some, and Keith Clark certainly would have started some.

Plus, you are comparing what, 3 years or Capel to 12 I believe from Kelvin?

I'd say the exact same things are happening, and I don't have a problem with them. Part of the game.

 

[bocabull]

The guys on your list were all grade/character risks to begin with . Capel would have never signed any of them except he had to scramble to fill roster spots because he was left a program in shambles.

There is a reason guys end up at Juco ... because they are damaged goods.

So we really lost 1 guy, Tony Neysmith who was just not good enough to play at this level. That is what I expect going forward. We will lose a guy every year or two who just doesn't work out. But Capel is getting to the point where he is not desperate to take risk to fill up roster spots like he had to initially.

 

[NickZepp]

The guys on your list were all grade/character risks to begin with .

You can say the same thing for a lot of the players that Kelvin had also. You know what it is, it's hard with the limited time on recruiting to really know how good these kids are, and if they really are a fit for the program.

 

[bocabull]

Agreed Nick. When you are a top 25 program trying to be a top 10 program you have to take some risks that Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc just don't have to take.

It is probably wishful thinking on my part that Capel will get OU to that level.

 

[skyvue]

Bobby Maze started five games at OU -- that's three more than Brandon Foust, who the Sampson haters often cite as one of the true gems that Sampson "ran off" -- and was certainly the source of excitement and enthusiasm among many Sooner fans, so it's a bit disingenuous now to pretend he was certain to be a bust. In fact, if he'd played and left under Sampson, he'd be on the list of players the naysayers would be blaming Sampson for losing. After all, he went to Tennessee and started 28 of 34 games, averaging 8.2 points. That's more than enough for the bashers bemoan his departure loudly and frequently.

The truth is, there are some that hated Sampson so much that they continue paint his player departures as unusually numerous and egregious. It wasn't so true then; it's not true now.

Here's hoping Coach Capel is never saddled with a faction of our fans in whose eyes he can do no right.

 

[Krugerfan52]

boca,
I don't think it's wishful thinking. OU was ranked preseason #7 by rivals last year and finished #7 in the rankings. Capel then signed a recruiting class for 2009 that is currently ranked #7 by rivals as well....right behind UNC and Kansas.

I know it's only a one year span, but right now we're there. Now the hard part is staying there.

 

[BigTime]

Agreed Nick. When you are a top 25 program trying to be a top 10 program you have to take some risks that Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc just don't have to take.

It is probably wishful thinking on my part that Capel will get OU to that level.[/QUOTE]

Its probably wishful thinking on my part that you will stop being a fan and stick with Arizona schools....


Not all the kids on that list were character/grade risks....but nice try.

 

[bocabull]

Not a fan, a graduate. Sorry if I'm not a blind ignorant homer.

 

[Cheno]

Like soonerboy824 there is a difference in starters and MAA's like Drew Lavender and Ryan Humphrey transferring vs guys like Neysmith and Cannon leaving because they are getting recruited over.

Capel is brining in 4-5 star guys every year. Most of those guys on Zepp's list are being replaced by better players. Thats part of the transition from Sampson to Capel. Capel had to get who he could since he was left with a mess. Now Capel is not recruiting the Bobby Maze's of the world. He's getting quality HS players.

But yes, it is true that kids transfer more now than they did 20 years ago.

Well said.

 

[Gutter]

The difference is that we arent losing key contributors. under sampson we were starters were transfering but under capel he got rid of maze and pattillo which were the only starters. Most of the other guys hardly played

This is an undeniable difference...But I don't know if it is really a knock against Kelvin. Those guys - Lavander, Hump and L-Mak - couldn't take his tough, demanding style that won us a lot of games over the years. Kind of a trade-off, I guess.

 

[Cheno]

This is an undeniable difference...But I don't know if it is really a knock against Kelvin. Those guys - Lavander, Hump and L-Mak - couldn't take his tough, demanding style that won us a lot of games over the years. Kind of a trade-off, I guess.

I totally agree. I think that is where the main difference of opinion in Kelvin Sampson as a coach comes in. Certainly it was a main sticking point with me.
Do you want a coach that is so hardnosed, stubborn and demanding that top talent doesn't want to play at his school therefore limiting really how far you can take the program on a consistent basis but yet on the flipside year after year puts a competitive team on the floor and wins 20+ games year after year. There's people that support both sides and I totally understand that.
I personally like a guy the style of Capel....more a players/recruiting coach that also can coach on the floor.

 

[BigTime]

Not a fan, a graduate. Sorry if I'm not a blind ignorant homer.

Well two out of three ain't bad, bucko.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

I totally agree. I think that is where the main difference of opinion in Kelvin Sampson as a coach comes in. Certainly it was a main sticking point with me.
Do you want a coach that is so hardnosed, stubborn and demanding that top talent doesn't want to play at his school therefore limiting really how far you can take the program on a consistent basis but yet on the flipside year after year puts a competitive team on the floor and wins 20+ games year after year. There's people that support both sides and I totally understand that.
I personally like a guy the style of Capel....more a players/recruiting coach that also can coach on the floor.

So because Hump and Drew left, two "top talent players" in twelve years, Kelvin couldn't get along with them? Kelvin coached enough of them during his summer work, at IU, etc.....that I really don't think that was an issue.

I think it is nonsense to say that. The biggest problem with Kelvin and recruiting was that he wasn't "great" at it when he first game to OU. That wasn't his strength. But if you look at the last 5-6 years he was at OU, his recruiting was fine, especially if you value his JUCO's like you should.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Is just a part of college basketball? I read posts in the past complaining about it with Sampson but under Capel we've had...

Keith Clark
Bobby Maze
Tony Neysmith
Chris Early
Kyle Cannon
and
Juan Patillo

all leave/kicked off in just 3 years.

No Chris, Tony, and Kyle never made an impact or never played. But still players leaving for whatever reason happens. I don't think you can really blame coaches for it. If you see me as a Sampson apologist for saying this then I'm also a Capel apologist. Players leaving in basketball happens a lot. Kansas has a couple guys off their roster leaving if I'm not mistaken.

I can except the bad players leaving......