Jamal Bieniemy?

[dsuits]

Per 247sports: Jamal Bieniemy 6'3''SG from Katy, TX(Tompkins)
Offers from OU, OSU, LSU, Creighton, Houston, A&M, New Mexico.
3star, National composite rank-#136, Overall SG rank-#25, overall Texas rank-#9

I was wondering if anybody has seen him live or knows much about his game?
Jamal looks at least 6'3'' on film but Rivals has him at 6'5''. Looks to have a long wingspan to go along with a slender frame. Attacks the lane and uses the glass well to finish. His outside shooting form looks like it could use some tweaking but looks comfortable with his midrange game. Someone here said he's not asked to play much defense in high school so that's something we may have to see later to quantify. Athletically, not a elite riser but covers ground quickly and penetrates well with a quick first step. He seems to be in attack mode when he gets the ball so that will be a welcomed edition.

The itch I'm trying to scratch the most is if Jamal can handle the back up at point? Obviously, his feel for running the team should improve the more he plays and develops in the system. He may not have a choice in the matter this year. Watching limited film, I noticed his dribble is high and doesn't seem to have the tightest leash on the ball. McGusty like but without the slow-motion Euro step. It may have just been the film I'm watching and He'll get better either way but physical and pressing teams could cause some problems for this team next year. Flashback of Cousins freshman year nightmarishly creep into my memories but are soon overtaken by how much time and improvement Isaiah made along the way. Hopefully, Jamal's progression is similar.


I'll throw out some former OU player comparisons and tell me if they're close or not. Jelon Hornbeak, Isaiah Cousins, Tony Neysmith types or is there someone with better commonalities out there?

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

Per 247sports: Jamal Bieniemy 6'3''SG from Katy, TX(Tompkins)
Offers from OU, OSU, LSU, Creighton, Houston, A&M, New Mexico.
3star, National composite rank-#136, Overall SG rank-#25, overall Texas rank-#9

I was wondering if anybody has seen him live or knows much about his game?
Jamal looks at least 6'3'' on film but Rivals has him at 6'5''. Looks to have a long wingspan to go along with a slender frame. Attacks the lane and uses the glass well to finish. His outside shooting form looks like it could use some tweaking but looks comfortable with his midrange game. Someone here said he's not asked to play much defense in high school so that's something we may have to see later to quantify. Athletically, not a elite riser but covers ground quickly and penetrates well with a quick first step. He seems to be in attack mode when he gets the ball so that will be a welcomed edition.

The itch I'm trying to scratch the most is if Jamal can handle the back up at point? Obviously, his feel for running the team should improve the more he plays and develops in the system. He may not have a choice in the matter this year. Watching limited film, I noticed his dribble is high and doesn't seem to have the tightest leash on the ball. McGusty like but without the slow-motion Euro step. It may have just been the film I'm watching and He'll get better either way but physical and pressing teams could cause some problems for this team next year. Flashback of Cousins freshman year nightmarishly creep into my memories but are soon overtaken by how much time and improvement Isaiah made along the way. Hopefully, Jamal's progression is similar.


I'll throw out some former OU player comparisons and tell me if they're close or not. Jelon Hornbeak, Isaiah Cousins, Tony Neysmith types or is there someone with better commonalities out there?

I've seen him live a few times. Can he handle backing up at point? Maybe. He's a terrific passer but I think he will struggle some against Big 12 athleticism because he's been able to leave his feet to make great passes inside and to the wings. He'll end up in trouble if he leaves his feet too often. His ball handling is fine for high school but he'll have a lot of trouble against good defensive PG's in the Big 12. He's just been able to get away with dribbling the ball too high for too long. Youre definitely right about his handles... fine for high school but not great for the Big 12. But I do think it's possible he could handle the point for 5 minutes per game. Fwiw, I think its not out of the realm of possibility for James or Odomes to do that also. As a backup at the point, you don't need to have elite handles (and Bieniemy doesn't). But for a couple minutes here and there... Maybe.

I'm not really sure who he compares most closely to... Maybe Skeeter Henry (though he's not that tall. ) On the current team he compares most closely to Odomes. He's definitely a slasher. He's very thin and will need to add significant muscle but he is just great at driving and finishing. I'd call him a decent shooter but remember, he's not often guarded by players with his size or athleticism. Therefore, he's had an easier time seeing the basket than he'll have when he's guarded by Lagerald Vick or someone like that.

I'm the one who said he's not vey good defensively but he certainly does have the length and athleticism to be good on that end. He just needs it to be the expectation.

Bottom line is there's going to be a learning curve. He has a chance to be very good but he'll still be a freshman next year. I'd expect 10-15 minutes per game and 6-8 points. Anybody expecting a double- digit scorer next year, IMO, is setting unrealistic expectations. He'll impress at times but he's going to have to work on his game and improve, just like anyone else.

 

[BCSooners]

I've seen him live a few times. Can he handle backing up at point? Maybe. He's a terrific passer but I think he will struggle some against Big 12 athleticism because he's been able to leave his feet to make great passes inside and to the wings. He'll end up in trouble if he leaves his feet too often. His ball handling is fine for high school but he'll have a lot of trouble against good defensive PG's in the Big 12. He's just been able to get away with dribbling the ball too high for too long. Youre definitely right about his handles... fine for high school but not great for the Big 12. But I do think it's possible he could handle the point for 5 minutes per game. Fwiw, I think its not out of the realm of possibility for James or Odomes to do that also. As a backup at the point, you don't need to have elite handles (and Bieniemy doesn't). But for a couple minutes here and there... Maybe.

I'm not really sure who he compares most closely to... Maybe Skeeter Henry (though he's not that tall. ) On the current team he compares most closely to Odomes. He's definitely a slasher. He's very thin and will need to add significant muscle but he is just great at driving and finishing. I'd call him a decent shooter but remember, he's not often guarded by players with his size or athleticism. Therefore, he's had an easier time seeing the basket than he'll have when he's guarded by Lagerald Vick or someone like that.

I'm the one who said he's not vey good defensively but he certainly does have the length and athleticism to be good on that end. He just needs it to be the expectation.

Bottom line is there's going to be a learning curve. He has a chance to be very good but he'll still be a freshman next year. I'd expect 10-15 minutes per game and 6-8 points. Anybody expecting a double- digit scorer next year, IMO, is setting unrealistic expectations. He'll impress at times but he's going to have to work on his game and improve, just like anyone else.

Great insight. One question I have on his passing, is he passing only on assists or is he a willing ball mover?

 

[dsuits]

Thanks for the breakdown Ghost. I'm with you on tempering expectations and seeing the bigger picture on players. It's part of the process and all of them go through it and have to put in the work. He maybe called on early out of necessity compared to readiness but the experience should help expedite his overall game down the line. I read Houston and Michigan took an interest so It's not just us that see some potential. I really liked how he can get his shoot off in the lane. Some of his clips show him putting it high off the glass and he seems to have a nice feel around the rim.

Do you think he's a legit 6'3''? Also if you don't mind commenting on his motor or body language on the court. You think Lon will have to encourage effort or does he have some dawg in him or leadership qualities to help the team?
Thanks again for your time.

Funny to think a line up of Mcneace, Manek, Kur, Bieniemy, and someone like Calixte could be one of the skinniest lineups in a very long arms time. :austin686_jpg_xs:

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

Great insight. One question I have on his passing, is he passing only on assists or is he a willing ball mover?

No, he seems to be a willing ball mover. This team made it to the state finals and lost on a last second layup so this team had plenty of talent. Another starter is going to Georgia Tech. A 3rd is going to San Jose St. This team was good. But he was also the team's go-to guy. When the team needed a bucket, they went to him so sometimes the ball did stop at him and he'd drain a 3 or get into the lane to make a play. But I would characterize him as a willing ball mover, at least as much as anyone who also has to be counted on to get buckets.

The ball sometimes stopped with the guy going to SJ St. There were times I saw that he should've moved the ball more but he'd take it upon himself to try to do too much but I never saw that with Bieniemy. If anything, maybe he should've demanded it more from his teammate.

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

Thanks for the breakdown Ghost. I'm with you on tempering expectations and seeing the bigger picture on players. It's part of the process and all of them go through it and have to put in the work. He maybe called on early out of necessity compared to readiness but the experience should help expedite his overall game down the line. I read Houston and Michigan took an interest so It's not just us that see some potential. I really liked how he can get his shoot off in the lane. Some of his clips show him putting it high off the glass and he seems to have a nice feel around the rim.

Do you think he's a legit 6'3''? Also if you don't mind commenting on his motor or body language on the court. You think Lon will have to encourage effort or does he have some dawg in him or leadership qualities to help the team?
Thanks again for your time.

Funny to think a line up of Mcneace, Manek, Kur, Bieniemy, and someone like Calixte could be one of the skinniest lineups in a very long arms time. :austin686_jpg_xs:

Legit 6'3"? No, he's 6'4" and it wouldn't shock me if he ended up being 6'5" within a year or so. His motor is good except on defense as I've said. I don't think he gave enough effort on defense but that was true of his teammates as well. They just weren't a good defensive team. It didn't seem to be expected of them.

There were times I noticed some bad body language. I'm not sure exactly how to characterize it so I want to be careful. He sometimes would get frustrated with not getting calls. That happens with all really good high school players, though. He's going to have to get over that. Some of that frustration comes with knowing you're a lot better than the guys guarding you and the refs aren't that good and aren't going to call everything. I've seen it a lot. I get it.

I also noticed a tendency to -- I'm not sure how to describe it -- get into it with opponents. Opponents knew he was good and would get tough with him and he would sort of get tough back, but maybe not in a healthy way. They were trying to get in his head some and he might talk trash or say something. There were a couple of times I saw that a ref could have T'd him up either for saying something to him or to the opponent (on a double-T situation). There's some toughness there that I like but it's also going to have to be channeled by the coaches. I don't want to characterize this as "bad body language" because of the connotation that creates. I think if we see it next year, there will be times when we and his teammates will love it and others when we may say he needs to dial it back a little.

Do not (and this is directed to the board) misinterpret this as me saying he has "an attitude problem." I am not saying that at all. I would call it a toughness or an edge or something like that. Like a lot of other attributes, it will have its positives and its negatives and it's up to the coaches and Bieniemy to mature and channel that.

 

[AdaSooner]

Thanks for your insight on Bieniemy, G of GH! I have never seen him play in person. But after watching every video i could find the past few months, I lean to the idea that he could play the point if need be. Kruger appears to feel that way too. This is what he said when Jamal signed his LOI:

Jamal is a terrific young guy who has the classic team-first attitude,” Kruger said. “His versatility as a combo guard allows him to be on the floor in a lot of different capacities and he's a solid defensive player as well.”

I’m not sure how much we can read into Lon’s quote? Coaches sometimes look so hard for glowing remarks about a player, they tend to stretch the facts a little.

Another article I read had this to say:

Jamal is considered a combo guard, and he definitely has the potential to excel at either PG or off the ball. Another thing of note is his potential as a defender. The guy stands at 6’4”, has very long arms and reacts quickly, so he could end up being a dominant player in that area. As far as his offensive skills are concerned, Bieniemy is very patient and controlled for a guy his age age

Jamal doesn’t remind me of any OU guard in my recent memory. He’s so fluid and smooth, he makes everything look easy. All I know for sure is thst I have liked this kid since he committed to OU last year. To me, he’s the gem of our 2018 recruiting class.

 

[Soonerinkc]

I thought it was funny...

1 poster said his def skills lacked, whether it was the whole teams approach or not...

"His motor is good except on defense as I've said. I don't think he gave enough effort on defense but that was true of his teammates as well. They just weren't a good defensive team. It didn't seem to be expected of them".

Then LK is quoted as saying he is a solid defender...

Considering how the year went, defensively seems about right.

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

Jamal doesn’t remind me of any OU guard in my recent memory. He’s so fluid and smooth, he makes everything look easy. All I know for sure is thst I have liked this kid since he committed to OU last year. To me, he’s the gem of our 2018 recruiting class.

I agree with this entirely. He's not really like anyone we've had for exactly the reasons you describe.

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

I thought it was funny...

1 poster said his def skills lacked, whether it was the whole teams approach or not...

"His motor is good except on defense as I've said. I don't think he gave enough effort on defense but that was true of his teammates as well. They just weren't a good defensive team. It didn't seem to be expected of them".

Then LK is quoted as saying he is a solid defender...

Considering how the year went, defensively seems about right.

Just to clarify, I'm probably the one who said that stuff about his effort on defense and that of his teammates but I did not say that he was lacking in defensive skills. He probably has them. I just really haven't seen them because that didn't seem to be the expectation of his high school team.

Set the expectation and I think he'll follow, but he's going to have to play catch-up. He'll definitely be behind the others if for no other reason than he's not used to playing defense at the speed he's going to have to in the Big 12.

 

[Soonerinkc]

no worries man, like I said, I thought it was "on par" for this year. I think MOST of us feel the def effort was not ....quite there....this year.

So if your observations are correct (most HS def isn't close to what's needed in the Big12) but LK is saying that's a strong point...I just see irony in it all.

Nothing more nothing less..

 

[OUGenius]

Maybe he can be the second coming of Terrell Everett?!

 

[mattham4]

I’ve seen him 5+ times this season as well and think everything ITT is pretty spot on. I think it’s worth mentioning that he led his team in steals each of the past 3 seasons and will leave with the school record. Now, the school has only been open for about five years....��

 

[dsuits]

Thanks again for your time Ghost. Sorry, I should have worded the the "motor and body language" question differently. I wasn't trying to set you up with a flagrant foul I promise. I'm just curious and trying to get a sense of his overall court game. I totally get not wanting to unfairly slap a label on a high school kids with a limited sample size involving multiple variables. Some guys you can tell early if they have the mindset of knowing when to turn it on. Court awareness that doesn't necessarily translate to the stat sheet but made a impact. Personally, I'd rather have a guy you have to dial down some compared to salt sniffing a guy awake but balance is key to consistency.

I don't think it controversial to say, "chemistry wise" the team struggled to find their rhythm when the wheels started shaking midseason. Next year, it's gotta be about the guys playing within themselves and not trying to do to much by one guy each game. Let the game come to you and take advantage when your number is called. Fortunately, I think this group likes each other enough to work on it and hopefully learn to effectively rely on it. Need to get a stabilizing Grad transfer like Calixte and have Jamal become a sponge barnacle to him.


Multiple websites had Jamal listed 6'3'' to 6'5'', I immediately went to the mindset of overinflated measurements. I pondered if he's closer to 6'2'' or if the 6'5'' range was correct. He'll be matched up with perimeter players and being closer to 6'4'' or 6'5'' with his length is not to shabby when he switches. I'm sure over time he'll get some easy layups playing the passing lane aggressively. I think he could be pretty solid all around and hope he has a mindset to come in and get after it from the jump. Thanks for all the input guys.

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

I’ve seen him 5+ times this season as well and think everything ITT is pretty spot on. I think it’s worth mentioning that he led his team in steals each of the past 3 seasons and will leave with the school record. Now, the school has only been open for about five years....��

No doubt that's true but it's all from his length and athleticism. It's not from the defensive techniques or fundamentals taught by the coaches.

 

[CoachTalk]

Maybe a poor mans shake Milton?

 

[usedtobe1]

Maybe a poor mans shake Milton?

I know the coaches thought he was almost as good as Quentin Grimes who signed with KU from College Park in The Woodlands. I’m sure the 2 of them matched up in AAU ball a lot since they’re both from the Houston area.

 

[CoachTalk]

I know the coaches thought he was almost as good as Quentin Grimes who signed with KU from College Park in The Woodlands. I’m sure the 2 of them matched up in AAU ball a lot since they’re both from the Houston area.

I’ll take it.

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

Maybe a poor mans shake Milton?

Sort of but Shake's a better shooter and (I think, because I really haven't seen that much Shake) Shake's more inclined to shoot than Bieniemy. Bieniemy's more of a slasher. Very good passer off of penetration and very good finisher.

 

[BCSooners]

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/rivals150-thoughts-on-the-final-ranking-for-the-class-of-2018

Scroll down a bit.