Just so we are clear....

[NickZepp]

You're one of about 3 or 4 people who believe that...

Why we had 2 key veterans. Neal was changed to a more of a combo guard even though he didn't fit there. And Carter didn't play till conference season when he averaged 15 a game. Capel was young and didn't know anything about the players on his team so he made mistakes.

 

[StatGeek]

for me ABD is a lot like CLU his threads are okay in small doses; his thread count is getting a little too high lately IMO

 

[Shooterms]

In my opinion of course these guys are going to play hard and be there for the team! I mean we really have no burger boys to coach. A good coach is able to put a leash on the talented guys and make them play as a team...So I dont see how seeing this next year means capel is ready to coach elite talent....When he gets a few top elite talented guys and bring them in and teach them how to play together I will be a believer...but next year will show me nothing in terms of beign able to do that.

So, you are saying that elite talent is harder to coach, and get to play as a team, than guys who aren't on that level of talent? If you are making that assertion informed by how our burger boys played last year, I'd assert that your sample size is too small to be statistically significant.

The key is not putting elite guys on a leash; the key is getting elite guys who don't need one. I think it is a fair argument to make that Capel recruited a bad combination of personalities and egos. I even think he'd agree with that assessment. Frankly, though, I don't think anyone could have made a great team out of that combination of egos.

 

[OULad]

He doesnt get a "pass". He got a pass the first year, but he is responsible to all the rest. Obviously if we suck the next couple of years hes gone.

 

[topcat]

Frankly, though, I don't think anyone could have made a great team out of that combination of egos.

I disagree and that is what concerns me about HCJC.

I watched us upset teams for years when we didn't have as good of talent as the teams we beat. To me, that defines great coaching. It seems we have only had a handful of upsets since Jeff took over. We definitely will be underdogs in a lot of games next year. A quality coach finds a way to overcome a roster deficiency. How many upsets will we have next year?

 

[Section31]

Why we had 2 key veterans. Neal was changed to a more of a combo guard even though he didn't fit there. And Carter didn't play till conference season when he averaged 15 a game. Capel was young and didn't know anything about the players on his team so he made mistakes.

I didn't need an explanation of why you think that. We've hashed and rehashed it over and over. I don't think you're stupid for thinking it. I was just pointing out that MOST PEOPLE don't think that...and not just message board, sunshine pumpers either...

 

[Romulus]

the expectations of this program have changed drastically. Not to bring up Kelvin, but if he dropped off a year like last year and the one coming up, this place would be burning down right now.

Not sure what to make of it really.

 

[Shooterms]

I disagree and that is what concerns me about HCJC.

I watched us upset teams for years when we didn't have as good of talent as the teams we beat. To me, that defines great coaching. It seems we have only had a handful of upsets since Jeff took over. We definitely will be underdogs in a lot of games next year. A quality coach finds a way to overcome a roster deficiency. How many upsets will we have next year?

We had plenty of talent last year, but the egos got in the way of the team. I don't think anyone could have remedied that. That is completely different than what you are saying. I think this team will do more with less, rather than less with more. The simple fact of the matter is that you can't motivate people to fight for what they don't care about.

 

[skyvue]

I was just pointing out that MOST PEOPLE don't think that...and not just message board, sunshine pumpers either...

That's your opinion, but I doubt you can produce statistical evidence that the vast majority of Sooner fans expected us to be bad that year. They certainly didn't expect us to finish below .500 -- or if they did, they were remarkably quiet about it.

AJ, TG, Michael Neal, Nate Carter, Longar, Crocker -- sorry, but even given that several of those players were young, that's not a sub-.500 squad. And if it's not, then finishing 16-15 is no great accomplishment.

If the youth on that team was an issue, then how can we assume Clark and TJ will contribute right away, as many seem to?

I make it a point never to compare Sampson and Capel -- the Sampson haters get their backs up, and one gets accused of wanting Sampson back, which I most definitely do not. But there's no doubt in my mind that if Sampson had coached that team, we'd have made the NIT at the very least.

This continuing insistence that that team was devoid of talent only started the last year or so. Few were saying at the time that we didn't have enough talent to win twenty games.

 

[NickZepp]

While your hypothesis is correct if Sampson were still at OU we have 2 top 10 recruits and a much better team. But I agree Sampson with that bunch wins 18-22 games, but he was an experienced coach. That's Capel's weakness at that time. He's more experienced now though.

 

[Sooner Quick]

Pretty sure you can't get a pass on something that hasn't happened.

The team was supposed to be pretty good last year, and wasn't.

An inverse situation could occur next year. This will be a hard working team, with high-character players, all of whom want to be in Norman wearing Crimson and Cream. It would seem that OU has some history with teams like that who have had success.

So, you are saying that elite talent is harder to coach, and get to play as a team, than guys who aren't on that level of talent? If you are making that assertion informed by how our burger boys played last year, I'd assert that your sample size is too small to be statistically significant.

The key is not putting elite guys on a leash; the key is getting elite guys who don't need one. I think it is a fair argument to make that Capel recruited a bad combination of personalities and egos. I even think he'd agree with that assessment. Frankly, though, I don't think anyone could have made a great team out of that combination of egos.

You're just making too much sense Shooter!

 

[Section31]

That's your opinion, but I doubt you can produce statistical evidence that the vast majority of Sooner fans expected us to be bad that year. They certainly didn't expect us to finish below .500 -- or if they did, they were remarkably quiet about it.

AJ, TG, Michael Neal, Nate Carter, Longar, Crocker -- sorry, but even given that several of those players were young, that's not a sub-.500 squad. And if it's not, then finishing 16-15 is no great accomplishment.

If the youth on that team was an issue, then how can we assume Clark and TJ will contribute right away, as many seem to?

I make it a point never to compare Sampson and Capel -- the Sampson haters get their backs up, and one gets accused of wanting Sampson back, which I most definitely do not. But there's no doubt in my mind that if Sampson had coached that team, we'd have made the NIT at the very least.

This continuing insistence that that team was devoid of talent only started the last year or so. Few were saying at the time that we didn't have enough talent to win twenty games.

Since we've (you and I) have been over this too much before, I'll say one last thing about all the "talent" you think we had.

AJ - unproven, oft-injured player
TG - raw talent, not ready to be a player
Michael Neal - this is a head-scratcher; he just never got his shot going
Nate Carter - who knew a 6'4" post player would be as serviceable as he was, Sampson didn't; heck, Nate didn't
Longar - c'mon, the guy couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time
Crocker - true freshman; had little D-1 game his frosh year

You try to say how much talent we had based HOW THEY TURNED OUT after 4 years. They were not very good players in their early years. Heck, most of them weren't that good in 08 either.

 

[NickZepp]

Carter is about 6-6 not 6-4. And he averaged something like 7 and 4 the year before in limited minutes.

 

[BigTime]

That's your opinion, but I doubt you can produce statistical evidence that the vast majority of Sooner fans expected us to be bad that year. They certainly didn't expect us to finish below .500 -- or if they did, they were remarkably quiet about it.

AJ, TG, Michael Neal, Nate Carter, Longar, Crocker -- sorry, but even given that several of those players were young, that's not a sub-.500 squad. And if it's not, then finishing 16-15 is no great accomplishment.

If the youth on that team was an issue, then how can we assume Clark and TJ will contribute right away, as many seem to?

I make it a point never to compare Sampson and Capel -- the Sampson haters get their backs up, and one gets accused of wanting Sampson back, which I most definitely do not. But there's no doubt in my mind that if Sampson had coached that team, we'd have made the NIT at the very least.

This continuing insistence that that team was devoid of talent only started the last year or so. Few were saying at the time that we didn't have enough talent to win twenty games.

I hate to get into this too much, but Mike Neal was hurt the entire year (with an injured hand). I don't think we got to see from him the type of year that could have been, and in my opinion, he supposed to be the best player on that squad. Its too bad because I think he would have put up some really nice numbers in Capel's offense.

 

[Sid]

So, you are saying that elite talent is harder to coach, and get to play as a team, than guys who aren't on that level of talent? If you are making that assertion informed by how our burger boys played last year, I'd assert that your sample size is too small to be statistically significant.

The key is not putting elite guys on a leash; the key is getting elite guys who don't need one. I think it is a fair argument to make that Capel recruited a bad combination of personalities and egos. I even think he'd agree with that assessment. Frankly, though, I don't think anyone could have made a great team out of that combination of egos.

Nice post.