Kansas vs. A&M

[Cheno]

We're also in store for another interesting postgame handshake.

Not interesting at all. Lots of handshakes, respect and love. Two hard-nosed teams going to battle. Sherron Collins showed why he's one of the best to ever play the game.

 

[HoHum]

Just want to get this straight. You think Sherron Collins is among the best basketball players in history?

 

[Cheno]

Just want to get this straight. You think Sherron Collins is among the best basketball players in history?

College career wise, sure. He'll probably be the all time winningest player in NCAA history.

 

[stoops4pres]

College career wise, sure. He'll probably be the all time winningest player in NCAA history.

Big 12 history I'd say so, but NCAA? Come on... Let's see how he does in the tournament (when its his team this time) before you make that bold of a statement.

 

[Cheno]

Big 12 history I'd say so, but NCAA? Come on... Let's see how he does in the tournament (when its his team this time) before you make that bold of a statement.

I can understand not agreeing with my statement but anyone who thinks Sherron Collins has anything to prove at this point is silly.
I happen to think Shane Battier is one of the great ones in the college game as well. College is different...it's about a lot of things including legacy.

 

[HoHum]

Be it college or pro, I tend to think of great skill and production. Collins is very, very good, don't get me wrong. But he's surrounded by great players.

If he played at OSU or something like that, he'd just be Byron Eatonish.

 

[Sam]

Just want to get this straight. You think Sherron Collins is among the best basketball players in history?

He is the Tim Tebow of college basketball, just go ahead and accept him Hohum.

 

[Cheno]

Be it college or pro, I tend to think of great skill and production. Collins is very, very good, don't get me wrong. But he's surrounded by great players.
If he played at OSU or something like that, he'd just be Byron Eatonish.

That's silly. Surrounded by GREAT players? :ez-laugh:
Who? It's funny how the quality of players KU has changes in every thread.
KU doesn't have another GREAT player on it's team. Aldrich is a great defender but not overall GREAT player. He's a very good college center.
Sherron won the Big 12 last year with Brady Morningstar and Tyrel Reed next to him the majority of the time on the court. Marcus Morris was a soft freshmen. Please.

 

[Cheno]

Be it college or pro, I tend to think of great skill and production. Collins is very, very good, don't get me wrong. But he's surrounded by great players.

If he played at OSU or something like that, he'd just be Byron Eatonish.

So, IYO, Byron Eaton was a very, very good player. Yeah, and I'm the homer. :clap

 

[HoHum]

So, IYO, Byron Eaton was a very, very good player. Yeah, and I'm the homer. :clap

Eaton's Senior Year: 14.3 PPG, 5.7 APG, 3.7 RPG 2.2 SPG, 42.1 FG%, 1.60 A/TO ratio.

Collins' Senior Year: 15.4 PPG 4.3 APG, 2.0 RPG, 1.2 SPG, 42.7 FG%, 1.82 A/TO ratio.

Yes, Eaton was a very, very good player.

 

[Cheno]

Eaton's Senior Year: 14.3 PPG, 5.7 APG, 3.7 RPG 2.2 SPG, 42.1 FG%, 1.60 A/TO ratio.

Collins' Senior Year: 15.4 PPG 4.3 APG, 2.0 RPG, 1.2 SPG, 42.7 FG%, 1.82 A/TO ratio.

Yes, Eaton was a very, very good player.

So you list stats to make a comparison AFTER you just get done saying Collins is good because he's surrounded by GREAT players. :clap

You are correct sir, Byron Eaton and Sherron Collins had comparable college careers. And I'm the homer. LOL

 

[Cheno]

Bo Kimble is better than Michael Jordan.
See there final year of college stats to prove that:

Bo Kimble 35ppg 7.7rbs 1.9asst
Michael Jordan 19.6ppg 5.3rbd 2.1asst

 

[HoHum]

So you list stats to make a comparison AFTER you just get done saying Collins is good because he's surrounded by GREAT players. :clap

You are correct sir, Byron Eaton and Sherron Collins had comparable college careers. And I'm the homer. LOL

When did I ever call you a homer? Why do you keep saying that, are you confusing me with someone else?

Another thing, here's my quote "Collins is very, very good, don't get me wrong. But he's surrounded by great players."

I say a few things.

1. He's very, very good. See the multiple use of the word very? That means I think he's an awfully good basketball player.

2. He's surrounded by great players. Nowhere do I say he's good BECAUSE he's surrounded by great players. I say he's very, very good AND he's surrounded by great players.

Cole Aldrich, Tyshawn Taylor, Xavier Henry, Marcus Morris, these are not very good players? You don't think this helps him?

Collins is also shooting 38% in conference play, which isn't very good. It's hard to be considered one of the greatest college players of all time with that number.

 

[CokeSooner]

I dunno, but you have to give them props for not trying to get into the A&M huddle after that last timeout.

There's no rule against getting in the other team's huddle.

 

[Cheno]

He's surrounded by great players. Nowhere do I say he's good BECAUSE he's surrounded by great players. I say he's very, very good AND he's surrounded by great players.

Right, but comparing a guys stats who has, as you said, great players surrounding him to a guy on an average team means nothing. Of course you will have less stats if you are surrounded by great players. Of course you will score more points if you are on an average team as opposed to a great team.

Cole Aldrich, Tyshawn Taylor, Xavier Henry, Marcus Morris, these are not very good players? You don't think this helps him?

Wait a second...I thought we were talking about them being "great players"?
Now they are just very good? And no, I wouldn't call Tyshawn Taylor a great player even this year. He wasn't even honorable mention all Big 12 man.
And when talking about the context of how Sherron Collins rates in the history of college basketball I wouldn't call Marcus Morris, X Henry and Cole Aldrich GREAT players. X Henry wasn't even honorable mention All Big 12.
Look at what Sherron did last year with really just Cole Aldrich and a bunch of guys you wouldn't even call really good Big 12 players.

 

[cfin5256]

I love watching posters argue semantics...

 

[HoHum]

He's surrounded by great players. Nowhere do I say he's good BECAUSE he's surrounded by great players. I say he's very, very good AND he's surrounded by great players.

Right, but comparing a guys stats who has, as you said, great players surrounding him to a guy on an average team means nothing. Of course you will have less stats if you are surrounded by great players. Of course you will score more points if you are on an average team as opposed to a great team.


Wait a second...I thought we were talking about them being "great players"?
Now they are just very good? And no, I wouldn't call Tyshawn Taylor a great player even this year. He wasn't even honorable mention all Big 12 man.
And when talking about the context of how Sherron Collins rates in the history of college basketball I wouldn't call Marcus Morris, X Henry and Cole Aldrich GREAT players. X Henry wasn't even honorable mention All Big 12.
Look at what Sherron did last year with really just Cole Aldrich and a bunch of guys you wouldn't even call really good Big 12 players.

Now we're just arguing semantics. What's the difference between very good and great? I don't know what weight you put into each of these terms. That's very similar to me.

I just disagree with Collins being considered one of the all time greats of college basketball. As I said his shooting percentage isn't very good, and his assist rate is not overly impressive. Given, I don't know if Self's system is conducive to a high number of assists from the primary ball handler.

I think you're caught up in Collins making huge shots in big games, and getting so wrapped up in leadership intangibles and the like and you're not looking at the statistical facts. Which is fine, that's what fans do to guys on their team.

But just look at his stats. It's hard to mold those into "All-time Great Collegiate Basketball Player".

 

[Cheno]

I think you're caught up in Collins making huge shots in big games, and getting so wrapped up in leadership intangibles and the like and you're not looking at the statistical facts.
But just look at his stats. It's hard to mold those into "All-time Great Collegiate Basketball Player".

I tend to think hitting big shot in big games, game after game and having unbelievable leadership intangibles are kind of special. To me that's more special that just looking at stats. Every single game you watch no matter what the level you see a guy or two putting up big stats. Stats don't tell the story at all. My Bo Kimble/Michael Jordan comparison is prime example.
As I stated earlier I tend to think Shane Battier is one of the all-time greats.
You probably tend to think Glenn Robinson is. Just a difference in opinion.

As I said, I can walk into any gym at any level and see a guy putting up stats.
You don't see guys like Sherron Collins and Shane Battier every day.

 

[Cheno]

Be it college or pro, I tend to think of great skill and production. Collins is very, very good, don't get me wrong. But he's surrounded by great players.
If he played at OSU or something like that, he'd just be Byron Eatonish.

The more I think about this statement the more I laugh.
Seriously, OSU had more talent than KU last year. Eaton's SR year and Collins Jr year. Yet OSU goes 9-7 in the Big 12 and KU wins the Big 12 championship. How do you explain that?
Let me explain it for you....Sherron Collins.

To compare Sherron to Byron "Get Your" Eaton is downright comical.

 

[Sam]

I am no OSU apologist but they had one post player last year in Marshall Moses who actually could be considered a traditional post who was worth anything, I'm not counting Malcon Kirkland as any type of decent post player. How does this supporting class = more talent than KU's?
James Anderson
Obi Munelo
Terrel Harris
Keiton Page
Marshall Moses
Malcon Kirkland

KU's
Tyshwan Taylor
Brady Moringstar
Tyrell Reed
Cole Aldrich
Marcus Morris
Markiff Morris