Kansas vs. A&M

[Cheno]

I am no OSU apologist but they had one post player last year in Marshall Moses who actually could be considered a traditional post who was worth anything, I'm not counting Malcon Kirkland as any type of decent post player. How does this supporting class = more talent than KU's?
James Anderson
Obi Munelo
Terrel Harris
Keiton Page
Marshall Moses
Malcon Kirkland

KU's
Tyshwan Taylor
Brady Moringstar
Tyrell Reed
Cole Aldrich
Marcus Morris
Markiff Morris

The Morris twins were not good at all last year as true freshmen. Tyshawn was up and down as a true freshmen. Morningstar and Reed...enough said. Aldrich very good player.

James Anderson is a lottery pick. Obi better than any other KU perimeter player last year. Terrell Harris equal to KU's perimeter players. Keiton Page had as good a frosh campaign as Taylor.

Bottom line to say Sherron was surrounded by great players last year and to infer that somehow Eaton was not is silly.
At worse I think one would say the talent was pretty equal wouldn't you?
So for KU to finish that much better than OSU was quite an accomplishment and that was because of Sherron's unbelievable leadership and year. The 6 guys you listed were all Fr and Soph's.

 

[HoHum]

I tend to think hitting big shot in big games, game after game and having unbelievable leadership intangibles are kind of special. To me that's more special that just looking at stats. Every single game you watch no matter what the level you see a guy or two putting up big stats. Stats don't tell the story at all. My Bo Kimble/Michael Jordan comparison is prime example.
As I stated earlier I tend to think Shane Battier is one of the all-time greats.
You probably tend to think Glenn Robinson is. Just a difference in opinion.

As I said, I can walk into any gym at any level and see a guy putting up stats.
You don't see guys like Sherron Collins and Shane Battier every day.

See, Shane Battier had the stats too. The dude shot 50% from the field, an insane defender. Grabbed 7 rebounds a game and blocked shots.

I'll 100% agree that Battier is one of the best college players ever.

I don't see any reason at all, after looking at statistics why it's 'laughable' that if you put Eaton on KU's team and Collins on OSU's team last year why their records wouldn't be pretty much what they were. OSU 9-7, into the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament. KU to the Elite Eight (right?).

Another important fact is Bill Self. His teams play incredible defense, and are beyond efficient on offense (despite Collins' sub .400 field goal percentage in conference).

This wasn't even worth looking at really, but Bo Kimble played in a mid-major league under Paul Westhead. LMU shot the ball 87.75 times a game and averaged 110+ points a game. UNC shot it 57.4 times in Jordan's Senior year. You convert Jordan's stats to that many shots in a game he scores 30 a game. (30.05 to be exact) Plus Jordan didn't have the three point line, Kimble did.

Collins and Eaton had similar stats against the same competition, and just about the same tempo (OSU just a hair quicker) that's why I made the comparison.

I (obviously, I've been debating it for 10 posts) just don't see how someone could put him in the same category with the Battier's, Laettners, Jay Williams, etc...

But we'll certainly have to agree to disagree on this one. I guess this is kind of like the sabermetrician vs scout arguments with baseball.

Just to sum it all up.

HoHum's opinion on Sherron Collins: Very, very good player. One (if not the) best point guards in Big 12 history. But not one of the best players to ever play the game of college basketball.

 

[stoops4pres]

anyone who thinks Sherron Collins has anything to prove at this point is silly.

Well, if you go so far as to claim him as one of the greatest college basketball players in HISTORY, he still has more to prove.

 

[stoops4pres]

I tend to think hitting big shot in big games, game after game and having unbelievable leadership intangibles are kind of special.

That's your problem, you're evaluating a guy's incredible leadership abilities and basing that as the judgement for best of all-time. Are they critical to be the best? Of course. But there are other factors involved that you aren't taking into account. One of the best leaders in college basketball history? You can make an argument for Collins. But one of the best players ever is a reach at best.

 

[stoops4pres]

See, Shane Battier had the stats too. The dude shot 50% from the field, an insane defender. Grabbed 7 rebounds a game and blocked shots.

He was also consensus Player of the Year.

HoHum's opinion on Sherron Collins: Very, very good player. One (if not the) best point guards in Big 12 history. But not one of the best players to ever play the game of college basketball.

Agreed... Basically what I said earlier.

 

[Irish_Sooner]

Cheno GTFO! you made me agree with a poke. Go to the KU board plz

 

[buttermaker1]

The Morris twins were not good at all last year as true freshmen. Tyshawn was up and down as a true freshmen. Morningstar and Reed...enough said. Aldrich very good player.

James Anderson is a lottery pick. Obi better than any other KU perimeter player last year. Terrell Harris equal to KU's perimeter players. Keiton Page had as good a frosh campaign as Taylor.

Bottom line to say Sherron was surrounded by great players last year and to infer that somehow Eaton was not is silly.
At worse I think one would say the talent was pretty equal wouldn't you?
So for KU to finish that much better than OSU was quite an accomplishment and that was because of Sherron's unbelievable leadership and year. The 6 guys you listed were all Fr and Soph's.

He is a great player and has unbelieveable thugish-ship. The kid was totally out of control last night talking smack and cussing..etc. What a baffoon this guy is good grief just play the game. The ref.'s really let him show his AZZ real impressive.

 

[Cheno]

HoHum's opinion on Sherron Collins: Very, very good player. One (if not the) best point guards in Big 12 history. But not one of the best players to ever play the game of college basketball.

I agree....best PG to ever play in the Big 12. See we can agree.

Well, if you go so far as to claim him as one of the greatest college basketball players in HISTORY, he still has more to prove.

Okay. So if he leads KU to a Final Four then you will say he's one of the greatest college basketball players in history? If and hopefully when he breaks the record for most wins by one player in the HISTORY of college basketball then you will agree he's one of the best to ever play the game?
I can live with that.

 

[gracefor24]

I don't know about greatest player in NCAA history but if KU wins 2 titles and he ends up with most wins in history he is definitely one of the great winners in NCAA history. There are way too many great players to claim he is one of the greatest but the kid is a winner and has had a terrific run at KU.

 

[Cheno]

I don't know about greatest player in NCAA history but if KU wins 2 titles and he ends up with most wins in history he is definitely one of the great winners in NCAA history. There are way too many great players to claim he is one of the greatest but the kid is a winner and has had a terrific run at KU.

I never said the greatest player. I said one of the greatest. I don't mean top 5, top 10...it's all subjective anyways....but if you put together a video of all the greats spanning the history of college basketball he'd be on it especially if he accomplishes what you mention above.
With over 300 teams per year and 100 years of basketball in college I don't even know what the number would be on a "top players" list. 200-250?

 

[stoops4pres]

Okay. So if he leads KU to a Final Four then you will say he's one of the greatest college basketball players in history? If and hopefully when he breaks the record for most wins by one player in the HISTORY of college basketball then you will agree he's one of the best to ever play the game?
I can live with that.

Yeah if he leads his team to a title or close to it I'd say so.