Next year

[Oliver Hardy]

More former players that came to play...self motivated. If you've ever seen them play...you know the difference.

I wish we still had players like those. Frankly, we don't have anything even close.

 

[Soonerbay]

I wish we still had players like those. Frankly, we don't have anything even close.

Me too! I am the butt of plenty of jokes these days in the bay area, but it's all good. I had my fun talking trash when I could!

As I looked at some of the pictures of CParis...it reminded me that most every high school player in the state of CA feared having to play her. I always heard coaches say, "If one of the Paris twins doesn't get you, the other one will." Then after games and tournaments, they were the first to go and shake hands and talk to opponents and their fans. OU doesn't have a current player (or incoming) that is a serious physical threat. OU's teams of the past had a mental affect on opponents as well. Neither do I sense a strong camaraderie. All of these things build a strong team.

 

[Soonerbay]

I completely agree. WHand was the "last of the Mohicans"/players with FF experience. No, the coaches cannot "motivate" anyone to passion. Either you have it or you don't. I don't think SC had to "motivate" the more successful teams to come ready to play every game. Real players live for it...it's their passion. At the same time, what you get during the practices and games is what you recruit. I'm sure Geno, Pat, Tara, et al know whether a player has "IT" or not before they ever land on campus. You see it in their play, the way they walk, the way they talk and what they've accomplished before landing on campus. I believe SC does as well, but for whatever reason (clearing my throat)...they are not landing in Norman. It doesn't make the players bad people or poor student-athletes. They are just not DI top 10 performers on a consistent basis. Or even rarely if ever. I remember many games where OU women were clearly upset after a loss. The loss to UConn on their court when the twins were there told it all. The team was clearly upset (although the odds of beating UConn was very slim) and the twins were "sobbing uncontrollably". I saw them "sobbing uncontrollably" when they were high school freshmen and their team lost to a very strong CWiggins team in CA. They came back and won two state championships later.

Another viewpoint...true passionate winners at ANYTHING is becoming a rare breed. It's a global problem, especially in the US. Too many kids are allowed/raised to have a sense of entitlement, poor work ethic, couch potatoes with parents who have unrealistic expectations. So unless SC and crew get out there EARLY and build relationships with passionate hard working players who are willing to sign...we'll see more of the same mediocrity.

Does it look like these players needed motivation for the game? I don't think so! When a player has "it", it's obvious.

I guess I'm not the only one with this viewpoint... per Coach Rampola of SMU women's basketball....just saw this on ESPN:

STORRS, Conn. -- SMU women's basketball coach Rhonda Rompola has said her decision to retire at age 55 is driven by a desire to spend more time with her husband.

But she acknowledges there is more to it than that.

Speaking with The Associated Press before Wednesday's 88-41 loss to top-ranked UConn, Rompola said the changing attitudes of student-athletes was another factor in her announcement this week that she will leave the school after 35 years there as a player and coach.

"Kids are not as coachable as they were years ago," she said. "I see kids sometimes talking back to their coaches, and it's like a way of life. I'm just being honest. The rules and everything they get -- they haven't taken time to appreciate. I was happy to have a scholarship. Kids nowadays are more concerned about when their next cost-of-attendance check is. It's just a different world."

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...la-says-athlete-entitlement-factor-retirement

 

[womenssports]

CParis and NMulkey...Comparing apples to apples...no comparison.

CParis-High School...
PIEDMONT HIGH SCHOOL: Averaged 27.4 points, 18.9 rebounds, 5.0 blocks and 2.5 assists per game as a senior ... Named 2005 national player of the year by USA Today and the Naismith Trophy Foundation ... A 2005 Parade Magazine first team All-American and 2004 second team All-American ... MVP of the 2005 McDonald's All-American Game after scoring 16 points and grabbing 12 rebounds ... 2005 EA Sports National Player of the Year ... 2005 California Miss Basketball ... 2003 and 2004 San Francisco Chronicle Player of the Year ... 2003 Oakland Tribune Player of the Year ... Also named Northern California Player of the Year and Oakland City Player of the Year ... 2003 All-Northern California first team and All-State second team ... 2003 Modesto Bee Player of the Year ... 2002 USA Today All-Freshman team ... Averaged 27.2 points, 18.1 rebounds, 4.6 blocks and 2.0 assists per game while leading team to state title as a junior ... Guided sophomore team to 30-4 record and final ranking of No. 10 in the state ... Averaged 25.4 points, 18.3 rebounds, 4.0 assists and 4.2 blocks steals as a sophomore ... Tallied 25 points, 13 rebounds and 3 assists per game as a freshman at Modesto HS ... Won gold medals with the 2005 USA U19 World Championship Team, 2004 Junior World Championship Qualifying Team and 2004 USA Basketball Youth Development Festival West Team ... Averaged 12.1 points per game and 7.4 rebounds per game in 12 games for the USA U19 team during 2005 summer ... Coached by Bryan Gardere at Piedmont High School ... Helped Piedmont win three Bayshore Conference Championships and two (2004, 2005) Division IV State Championships ... Also won conference championship during her freshman year at Modesto Christian HS ... Played five years of club ball for the East Bay Explosion for head coach Mark Anger ... Also played two seasons for head coach Jerry Gatewood of the West Coast All-Stars ... Won travel ball national championship at the age of 14.

NMulkey - High School...
USA Basketball Notes

Gold Medals: 2014 FIBA U17 World Championship, 2013 FIBA Americas U16 Championship.
Member of the 2014 USA Basketball U17 World Championship Team that posted a perfect 7-0 record and captured the gold medal at the 2014 FIBA U17 World Championship in the Czech Republic. Averaged 2.0 ppg. and 2.6 rpg. Was perfect at the free-throw line connecting on all six attempts. Recorded 10 blocks to finish second on the team, behind only Lauren Cox (19).
Member of the 2013 USA Basketball Women’s U16 National Team, started training camp with the team as an alternate; at the 2013 FIBA Americas U16 Championship that was played June 19-23 in Cancun, Mexico, played in four games and averaged 6.3 ppg. and 1.3 rpg. to help the USA to a 5-0 record, a gold medal and a berth into the 2014 FIBA U17 World Championship.

High School Honors

District 17-5A Defensive Player of the Year (2013).

High School Notes

Has played four varsity seasons at Cypress Woods High School in Cypress, Texas, including varsity seasons as a seventh grader in 2010-11 and an eighth grader in 2011-12.
Has 60 career starts and lists career totals of 420 points, 255 rebounds, 25 assists, 29 steals and 220 blocked shots.
Lists career shooting percentages of 42.0 percent from the field and 69.0 percent from the line.
Lists a career game of 23 points, five rebounds and 10 blocked shots versus Pearland in a regional semifinal in February 2014.
As a sophomore in 2013-14, averaged 7.6 ppg., 5.8 rpg. and 3.8 bpg. to help her team to a 32-6 record.
As a freshman in 2012-13, averaged 9.6 ppg., 7.8 rpg. and 4.6 bpg. to help her team to a district championship.
Plays in the summers for Cy-Fair Shock Ogwumike and won the 2013 Nike National Championship.
Also plays volleyball.

If Courtney was self-motivated, why didn't she improve over her four years of college? AND don't get me wrong, I am not knocking her. I don't think she improved and I believe that is on the coach and maybe on her. She had always been so successful, I don't think she had a clue that she needed to get
better. But if she did but she was happy and is happy now with her play and how she did and does and how her team did and does, then that is her deal. I would not have anything negative to say about that.

Amanda Thompson really wanted to get better, really wanted to win, really wanted to play in the W. She was self-motivated.

Why do so few of our players get better? And I am not talking about in the last few years, I am talking about since 2001-2002 when I first started watching?

Are they not self-motivated? Are they not motivated by the Coach? Are they not coached well?

 

[womenssports]

I completely agree. WHand was the "last of the Mohicans"/players with FF experience. No, the coaches cannot "motivate" anyone to passion. Either you have it or you don't. I don't think SC had to "motivate" the more successful teams to come ready to play every game. Real players live for it...it's their passion. At the same time, what you get during the practices and games is what you recruit. I'm sure Geno, Pat, Tara, et al know whether a player has "IT" or not before they ever land on campus. You see it in their play, the way they walk, the way they talk and what they've accomplished before landing on campus. I believe SC does as well, but for whatever reason (clearing my throat)...they are not landing in Norman. It doesn't make the players bad people or poor student-athletes. They are just not DI top 10 performers on a consistent basis. Or even rarely if ever. I remember many games where OU women were clearly upset after a loss. The loss to UConn on their court when the twins were there told it all. The team was clearly upset (although the odds of beating UConn was very slim) and the twins were "sobbing uncontrollably". I saw them "sobbing uncontrollably" when they were high school freshmen and their team lost to a very strong CWiggins team in CA. They came back and won two state championships later.

Another viewpoint...true passionate winners at ANYTHING is becoming a rare breed. It's a global problem, especially in the US. Too many kids are allowed/raised to have a sense of entitlement, poor work ethic, couch potatoes with parents who have unrealistic expectations. So unless SC and crew get out there EARLY and build relationships with passionate hard working players who are willing to sign...we'll see more of the same mediocrity.

Does it look like these players needed motivation for the game? I don't think so! When a player has "it", it's obvious.

You left out Jasmine Hartman who started on the last FF team and Joanna McFarland who was a freshman and got playing time. I believe both were passionate players while at OU and had IT. Because of injuries Hand, Jaz and Joanna were the three members of the 2013 Senior Class.

 

[womenssports]

Me too! I am the butt of plenty of jokes these days in the bay area, but it's all good. I had my fun talking trash when I could!

As I looked at some of the pictures of CParis...it reminded me that most every high school player in the state of CA feared having to play her. I always heard coaches say, "If one of the Paris twins doesn't get you, the other one will." Then after games and tournaments, they were the first to go and shake hands and talk to opponents and their fans. OU doesn't have a current player (or incoming) that is a serious physical threat. OU's teams of the past had a mental affect on opponents as well. Neither do I sense a strong camaraderie. All of these things build a strong team.

What do you mean by physical threat because that isn't what I want to watch nor what the game is about. However, if you are talking about a strong player, we have Vivi and EJ. OU, like any team, who had a history of winning, had a mental affect. We haven't had the team nor the talent for that in the last three years. Finally, I am not sure what makes you sense these teams of late haven't had a strong camaraderie. Not sure what you are seeing.

One more thing about being excited and motivated, when teams play like OU has the last three years and expected more; I think they get to the point to where they want it to be over and then start over OR if Seniors, just get on with something else. Truly do not believe we have had the talent to do better. We have players who can do really well, but not consistently. Who knows how Gioya would have done this year had she gotten to practice the 6 months prior to getting to play and if she was now full strength? Who knows how well Maddie would have done if she had not had two acl tears? You get those two and Vivi usually playing well and TT and then it spreads to the other players. Maybe Peyton wouldn't be having the year she is. (And I think playing for the USA team actually may have hurt Gabbi's play for this year. Maybe that is why Vegas didn't have a good senior year.) As it is, we haven't had enough good players healthy. PLUS, watching Geno's warm-ups before a game, if one hand isn't held 100 percent correctly, the player hears about it and does it over. I just don't think we practice the fundamentals that well. If you are doing the little things right, the rest comes a lot easier and that goes for anything in life. If you don't bother with the little things, you can forget the big things because there will be a collapse.

 

[womenssports]

Oh and I definitely see IT in Vivi, T'ona and EJ. EJ I just see from the sidelines and also I would say Penzo, just do not know how good she was nor if she can come back from her acl. Many players don't. I don't think Chelsi Welch was ever the same. Vivi is post who shot no more than 50% of her free throws as a Freshman. Now she is one of our top free throw shooters. Courtney Paris never improved on her free throw shooting though she knew she was going to get fouled and every point in a game can be critical. TT has really
gotten better this year. She does what she does well. She gets after it because she has IT.

As far as anyone getting in someone's face and saying, you need to do better. Has anyone done that since Stacey Dales? Of course, you can lead without doing that and I believe Whitney did.

 

[Soonerbay]

If Courtney was self-motivated, why didn't she improve over her four years of college? AND don't get me wrong, I am not knocking her. I don't think she improved and I believe that is on the coach and maybe on her. She had always been so successful, I don't think she had a clue that she needed to get
better. But if she did but she was happy and is happy now with her play and how she did and does and how her team did and does, then that is her deal. I would not have anything negative to say about that.

Amanda Thompson really wanted to get better, really wanted to win, really wanted to play in the W. She was self-motivated.

Why do so few of our players get better? And I am not talking about in the last few years, I am talking about since 2001-2002 when I first started watching?

Are they not self-motivated? Are they not motivated by the Coach? Are they not coached well?

I believe a player can have self motivation and not improve skills. Many players at OU are a prime example starting with CParis as well as dating back to the 2002 class. It is the coaching staff's responsibility to CONTINUE to teach player skills. The Paris' were clearly self-motivated enough to have trainers to come work with them over the summer at OU and they were not welcomed...based on what I was told. Their high school coach came to help (a former professional player) and a free throw shooting coach who worked with Shaq (his name escapes me). I believe he is an OU alum.

The lack of development (along with poor recruiting) appears to be a problem at OU. That is not an indictment on the players...especially when they WANT to get better.

 

[Soonerbay]

You left out Jasmine Hartman who started on the last FF team and Joanna McFarland who was a freshman and got playing time. I believe both were passionate players while at OU and had IT. Because of injuries Hand, Jaz and Joanna were the three members of the 2013 Senior Class.

You're correct. I left off numerous players...didn't have time to try to find pictures that expressed my point and the max is five that can be posted.

 

[Soonerbay]

What do you mean by physical threat because that isn't what I want to watch nor what the game is about. However, if you are talking about a strong player, we have Vivi and EJ. OU, like any team, who had a history of winning, had a mental affect. We haven't had the team nor the talent for that in the last three years. Finally, I am not sure what makes you sense these teams of late haven't had a strong camaraderie. Not sure what you are seeing.

One more thing about being excited and motivated, when teams play like OU has the last three years and expected more; I think they get to the point to where they want it to be over and then start over OR if Seniors, just get on with something else. Truly do not believe we have had the talent to do better. We have players who can do really well, but not consistently. Who knows how Gioya would have done this year had she gotten to practice the 6 months prior to getting to play and if she was now full strength? Who knows how well Maddie would have done if she had not had two acl tears? You get those two and Vivi usually playing well and TT and then it spreads to the other players. Maybe Peyton wouldn't be having the year she is. (And I think playing for the USA team actually may have hurt Gabbi's play for this year. Maybe that is why Vegas didn't have a good senior year.) As it is, we haven't had enough good players healthy. PLUS, watching Geno's warm-ups before a game, if one hand isn't held 100 percent correctly, the player hears about it and does it over. I just don't think we practice the fundamentals that well. If you are doing the little things right, the rest comes a lot easier and that goes for anything in life. If you don't bother with the little things, you can forget the big things because there will be a collapse.

Ok.

Edit...and yes,the "physical". I'm not saying "physical" from a violent perspective. But the term "physical threat" is often used when a person is stronger, bigger, taller and has a "physical" presence. I'm not sure what else you thought I could be referring. I don't recall anyone on the OU team fighting, especially not the Paris and that was my point. Both had a physical presence which led to a mental advantage with many players.

 

[Soonerbay]

Oh and I definitely see IT in Vivi, T'ona and EJ. EJ I just see from the sidelines and also I would say Penzo, just do not know how good she was nor if she can come back from her acl. Many players don't. I don't think Chelsi Welch was ever the same. Vivi is post who shot no more than 50% of her free throws as a Freshman. Now she is one of our top free throw shooters. Courtney Paris never improved on her free throw shooting though she knew she was going to get fouled and every point in a game can be critical. TT has really
gotten better this year. She does what she does well. She gets after it because she has IT.

As far as anyone getting in someone's face and saying, you need to do better. Has anyone done that since Stacey Dales? Of course, you can lead without doing that and I believe Whitney did.

Paris was a very decent ft shooter pre OU. Not sure what happened after arrival but she was self motivated enough to bring in her own help to improve. Her help was not welcome based on what I was told (see previous post).

ON THE OTHER HAND...no one was better that Paris at making a free throw when it mattered most when the game was on the line. Baylor was infamous for chasing her around the court to foul her and she did not have possession of the ball. She was always 100% when they did that...if you want to talk free throws.

 

[womenssports]

I believe a player can have self motivation and not improve skills. Many players at OU are a prime example starting with CParis as well as dating back to the 2002 class. It is the coaching staff's responsibility to CONTINUE to teach player skills. The Paris' were clearly self-motivated enough to have trainers to come work with them over the summer at OU and they were not welcomed...based on what I was told. Their high school coach came to help (a former professional player) and a free throw shooting coach who worked with Shaq (his name escapes me). I believe he is an OU alum.

The lack of development (along with poor recruiting) appears to be a problem at OU. That is not an indictment on the players...especially when they WANT to get better.

To be clear, I did not indict any player. I never have. This is a sport and how much they want to put into it is up to them. It is up to the coaches to decide if it is enough. I really liked both CP and Ashley. Not just because we won more games, but because of the people they appeared to be.

And no, I don't remember any fights, but I don't know you so I don't know what you mean, which is why I asked about physical threat. People have posted things which seem to me to mean they like a player having an attitude or liked when Vivi got a tech. I don't. And I don't know how everyone is using different words. Again, I see Vivi and EJ as being strong players (or physical threats), do you not?

And do you not think TT has IT/ Or Vivi? from the sidelines, it appears a good chance that EJ and Penzo do.
It doesn't mean that they are going to be able to be the players we need, but will give it there all.

I know nothing about the Ashley and Courtney hiring help or trying to do so.
I do think that Ashley hired someone to work with her the summer before her Senior year to get in better shape and get faster.

Finally, I will never understand Courtney's lack of free-throw shooting ability in college and the pros. I would think it would be something you could learn on your own. Vivi didn't have the bb experience that CP did coming into college and her free-throw shooting was similar last year to CP's, she worked on it and has significantly improved. I understand some people are naturally better at certain things than other people but I truly don't get ANY college player not hitting free throws. Maybe I just know enough about the game but we had 80 percent free throw shooters in the 60's who weren't great bb players and we played 3 on 3 and did not get the coaching, the aau, etc. But then that was the extent of my personal experience, 6 years in this system from 5th through sophomore year. Today's bb isn't anything like what I knew and I haven't played since, nor had someone close to me playing, so again maybe I just don't get something because I haven't been close enough to the game.

As far as there only being a place for 5 pics, I was not referring to that post. I was referring to your post that talked of Whitney being the last of the FF, the last of the Mohicans who had that attitude. The ones in the pic all graduated before Whitney, even Stevenson who was shown with Abi, however, she was identified as D-Rob (not by you just by I am guessing OU media. and I am 99 percent sure it is Stevenson, and not that it is a big deal, except I don't believe our
own media should make those type of mistakes.)
I was just differing with you because I believe Jaz and McFarland had it. I am guessing you forgot about them.

I did not mean to offend you, I was only replying to your posts with my opinions. I was interested in a reply to them.