officiating, coaching, in the Cincy game

[cowboysooner]

First, I thought the game was called fairly, but clearly differently than any game we have seen to date this year. Cincy plays mug ball, which is what georgetown, OU under Sampson, Texas A&M girls, and many others play. They arm bar every runner, slap at every ball, touch every shooter on the body, body up every dribbler, and continue to "push" for position under the rim when defensive rebounders with inside position leave their feet for a rebound (eg push them under the rim once they get position). These are all fouls that are normally called. However, many coaches have correctly determined that if every player on the court does it on every position, you can effectively train the officials to let it go and force them to allow the game to become more physical than they would normally allow.

Last night, Cincy did a good job of forcing the officials to "let them play". We didn't respond well to this at all until late in the first half and really didn't deal with it very well during the game. Great game to learn from, because we will see it at Missouri and, to a lesser degree, at Kansas. We could definiately see it in the NCAA Tournament, if we make it. It is one of the reasons VCU and Butler have made it deep lately.

Love Lon, but he also got played a little yesterday. Hopefully, it won't just be the kids that learn from this game. Mick is from an old school 70 year coaching family and it showed. First, he grossly overplayed (didn't worry about staying between the man and the goal) every perimeter player. This caused numerous turnovers and essentially we couldn't even pass the ball around the horn. The answer to this is fairly simple, backdoor them (which we never had anyone cut to the basket) or you have to dribble penetrate and never never never pick up your dribble. Ultimately and with about 3 minutes left in the first, Lon adjusted to this and began reversing to a back side wing, who had just come off of a screen and then that wing threw the ball into what was the back side low post. You can do this to. It worked.

when we made this adjustment, mick went zone, trapped the play side wing/ball and rotated down from the back side. This forced a number of skip passed to the 3 line and led, by design, to a bunch of long jumpers. If we hit them we win, we didn't and it gave Cincy the posssessions they needed to get back into the game.

I thought Lon reacted well to every move, but just a little late. This being said, if we handle the ball a little better, hit a couple of our late jumpers, hit a few more free throws, and/or they call walking on Wright (who took 5 steps before scoring on the "and 1"). We win.

Good for Cincy, all in all, decent game for us and one we can build on. Got to see a different and more physical type of team, got to play in a hostile environment on the road, and hopefully this will all help get us ready for conference.

 

[campbest]

First, I thought the game was called fairly, but clearly differently than any game we have seen to date this year. Cincy plays mug ball, which is what georgetown, OU under Sampson, Texas A&M girls, and many others play. They arm bar every runner, slap at every ball, touch every shooter on the body, body up every dribbler, and continue to "push" for position under the rim when defensive rebounders with inside position leave their feet for a rebound (eg push them under the rim once they get position). These are all fouls that are normally called. However, many coaches have correctly determined that if every player on the court does it on every position, you can effectively train the officials to let it go and force them to allow the game to become more physical than they would normally allow.

Last night, Cincy did a good job of forcing the officials to "let them play". We didn't respond well to this at all until late in the first half and really didn't deal with it very well during the game. Great game to learn from, because we will see it at Missouri and, to a lesser degree, at Kansas. We could definiately see it in the NCAA Tournament, if we make it. It is one of the reasons VCU and Butler have made it deep lately.

Love Lon, but he also got played a little yesterday. Hopefully, it won't just be the kids that learn from this game. Mick is from an old school 70 year coaching family and it showed. First, he grossly overplayed (didn't worry about staying between the man and the goal) every perimeter player. This caused numerous turnovers and essentially we couldn't even pass the ball around the horn. The answer to this is fairly simple, backdoor them (which we never had anyone cut to the basket) or you have to dribble penetrate and never never never pick up your dribble. Ultimately and with about 3 minutes left in the first, Lon adjusted to this and began reversing to a back side wing, who had just come off of a screen and then that wing threw the ball into what was the back side low post. You can do this to. It worked.

when we made this adjustment, mick went zone, trapped the play side wing/ball and rotated down from the back side. This forced a number of skip passed to the 3 line and led, by design, to a bunch of long jumpers. If we hit them we win, we didn't and it gave Cincy the posssessions they needed to get back into the game.

I thought Lon reacted well to every move, but just a little late. This being said, if we handle the ball a little better, hit a couple of our late jumpers, hit a few more free throws, and/or they call walking on Wright (who took 5 steps before scoring on the "and 1"). We win.

Good for Cincy, all in all, decent game for us and one we can build on. Got to see a different and more physical type of team, got to play in a hostile environment on the road, and hopefully this will all help get us ready for conference.

:clap

 

[Sawyer]

Love this post.

I wouldn't expect that too much from Mizzou, though. We foul about half as much as we did last season (20.3 to 11.3 per game) and have gone from among the most foul-prone teams in the country to one of the least.

 

[jaymOU]

Agreed. The next to last bucket from Cincy was a travel - not called. And Cincy was mugging OU. Did anyone else feel like Lon might have wanted this to happen and for the team to work through being pressed and pushed and slapped and poked and FOULED so they would be ready to respond in Big 12 play?

Did Lon ever complain to the officials? I never saw it. I remembered him as a little more fiery than he was last night, but maybe I am "misremembering".

 

[sdcloud9]

On the play where Grooms was knocked into the standard in the first half, LK got on the officials pretty good.

I like the play where the Cincy guy hits Clark like four times in about 10 seconds and then they call Cam for pushing off.

I agree, Cincy plays that way, started it under Bob Thuggins and Cronin has kept it going.

Sooners didn't adjust late when Cincy turned up the heat. Hope they learn from it.

 

[WTSooner]

Disagree with the "outcoached" part. I could explain why, but there really isn't any reason to have that debate. Suffice it to say, several posters on this board still do not understand the strengths and weaknesses of our team. Cincy was the type of team we will struggle with. Long. Fast. Quick. That is the opposite of what this OU team currently is. You cannot simply say "backdoor" when a) our guards aren't quick enough to get open that way, b) our pg was being hounded, and wasn't able to make a clean pass, and c) they weren't concerned with our bigs IN THAT SCENARIO, so their posts were helping defend the backdoor. Simple as that, really. The best way to beat up in your face pressure is simply to dribble by it. Grooms is our only player that can really do that, and once he gets by, his limited offensive game hinders him. We'll do MUCH better against teams that don't have that kind of athleticism all over the court.

To suggest that LK doesn't know that going backdoor is a good response to ball pressure is silly.

 

[DenverSooner]

. Cincy was the type of team we will struggle with. Long. Fast. Quick.

Did you really describe a four guard offense as long? I wouldn't call Cinci long. I thought they were undersized and OU did a poor job of exploiting its size advantage, particularly on the offensive end. I did think OU did a good job rebounding, especially on the defensive end for most of the game.

 

[Sawyer]

Undersized teams can still be long IMO. "Long" to me is more about length relative to height and enabled guys to tip balls or get into passing lanes they normally wouldn't.

I don't know if that describes Cinci, but from what I remember about them last year it would be more or less accurate.

 

[AdaSooner]

Agreed. The next to last bucket from Cincy was a travel - not called. And Cincy was mugging OU. Did anyone else feel like Lon might have wanted this to happen and for the team to work through being pressed and pushed and slapped and poked and FOULED so they would be ready to respond in Big 12 play?
Did Lon ever complain to the officials? I never saw it. I remembered him as a little more fiery than he was last night, but maybe I am "misremembering".

Odd that you bring that up, jaymOU. I had those same thoughts after the game last night. Kruger is a cagey, veteran coach who would not be opposed to taking advantage of a teaching experience to prepare his team for conference play. Either way, it would be interesting to know why he chose not to call a timeout to slow Cincy's momentum?

You're spot on about the travel that wasn't called. There is no doubt that it came before the shot and the foul. I played it back three times and came to the same conclusion each time.

That said, we should never have been in that position in the first place. OU had a double digit lead and complete control of the game inside the six to seven minute mark. From that point forward, our kids played right into Cincy's hands with turnovers, ill-advised shots, failing to secure rebounds and loose balls, and a host of mental mistakes. It was our game to lose and we blew it! Simple as that.

 

[jaymOU]

agreed. But given Lon's experience - I think he wanted to see if this team could will their way to win on their own. Maybe I am reading too much into his inaction, but leaving Grooms on the floor as the only ball handler in the last four minutes is curious. But, really, what options other than Cam does he have?

 

[WTSooner]

Undersized teams can still be long IMO. "Long" to me is more about length relative to height and enabled guys to tip balls or get into passing lanes they normally wouldn't.

I don't know if that describes Cinci, but from what I remember about them last year it would be more or less accurate.

That is exactly what I meant. Looked like a bunch of Skeeter Henry's out there with long arms and quick hands.

Besides, them playing 4 guards when we don't have a single back to the basket post man, isn't really a negative. Most of what Fitz does is on jump shots. Either from 15-18 feet, or closer, and of the turn around variety. Our opponents won't need beasts inside to defend that.

 

[WTSooner]

I saw LK talking to the refs a few times, but it was usually in a manner that wasn't overly obvious. Not sure if that was out respect for the refs, or possibly he didn't want the team to know, as he was telling them they weren't being fouled and needed to play tougher. Excellent point. I don't think LK would completely let the refs off the hook though. Willing that game was still very important.