OSU basketball team looking good on paper

[Seymore Cox]

They weren't uptempo as much last year because they couldn't get defensive rebounds and had such a short bench. I think they will push early on in the season and see how it goes with all the new guys getting acclimated. Ray Penn is much more geared for pushing the pace than Byron Eaton. Ford may have to reign it in some if the young guys struggle with decision making.

To be uptempo, you have to have finishers. Byron Eaton was probably their best finisher last year and he was the guy pushing the ball. That can't work. Ray Penn is not going to be able to finish at a high level, neither is Page, a guy that several times last year abandoned one vs. one breaks because he knew he would get rejected. If they push tempo, it is to find a spot up three shooter, which is not always a good idea.

 

[SuperHoops]

But that is a large part of Ford's offensive philosophy. A wide open 3 with 30 seconds on the shot clock is the same as a wide open 3 with 5 seconds on the clock. That's why he recruits athletic big men to run the floor. Whether or not it will work in the Big 12 remains to be seen. Hopefully they push it up the floor like Kansas and look for the secondary break.

 

[HoHum]

Again, the biggest misconception of OSU is that they were uptempo. They weren't particularly uptempo, they just took quick shots. OU was more of an uptempo team last year than OSU. OU got far more fastbreak buckets than OSU. OSU thrived last year when they were more judicious taking shots and funneled their offense through Eaton.

If Ford goes back to the quick shooting ways like the beginning of last year, you'll see similar results. If you see the OSU that played at the Ford center against OU, against Tennessee and against Pitt, you'll have a top 20 team.

Is that not what I'm saying? I swear you argue to just argue sometimes. I said when OSU played well last year it's because they DIDN'T play as uptempo as they did early in the year.

And OU was not a more uptempo team than OSU last year. OSU averaged more possessions a game last year, so unless the DirtyMess definition of tempo is different than the Webster's definition...

 

[OKhoops]

DM when you saw Penn play could he not finish at a high level? I had heard he could get to the rim.

 

[Seymore Cox]

DM when you saw Penn play could he not finish at a high level? I had heard he could get to the rim.

A 5'9 guy is not going to get to the rim against 6'8 bigs.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Is that not what I'm saying? I swear you argue to just argue sometimes. I said when OSU played well last year it's because they DIDN'T play as uptempo as they did early in the year.

And OU was not a more uptempo team than OSU last year. OSU averaged more possessions a game last year, so unless the DirtyMess definition of tempo is different than the Webster's definition...

I'm not arguing, but I do have a passion about the Xs and Os of basketball. Alot of times fans get a misconception of what uptempo basketball is. What OSU did was not my definition of that. The ultimate uptempo program in College is UNC. Roy Williams pushes the ball or rebounds, made shots, and turnovers and has a secondary break that he funnels to. OSU last year just took alot of quick perimeter shots. Their pressure D was not great, pushing off of rebounds wasnt great, and they didn't create the turnovers that are needed to be uptempo. Most of all, they barely had the personnel

Last year, OSU had two guys that was an uptempo type playesr. That is Marshall Moses and Byron Eaton. Byron could push the ball coast to coast, even though he could get out of control. If there was another guy that might fit in that mode it was Terrell Harris because of his on and off ball defense. So you replace Byron Eaton with RAy Penn, a shoot first guard, and a bunch of other guards who aren't going to be prototype push ball type guards like Eaton, Collins, Lawson, ETC. The second part of being uptempo is defense. Have they improved defensively? I dont know? We'll see. Third part of being uptempo is bigs. I don't know if the bigs OSU got will contribute right away. Generally it takes a year and a half.

 

[NickZepp]

A 5'9 guy is not going to get to the rim against 6'8 bigs.

Eaton was only 5-10 or so wasn't he? BUt he was a lot wider.

 

[Krugerfan52]

Yeah, and Eaton had all kinds of trouble getting to the rim and finishing his freshman/soph years even though that was his game in HS. It just worked a lot better for him in HS because the players were smaller. He did eventually learn to just jump into everybody his jr/sr years instead of getting his shot blocked or turning the ball over, but that took time.

Penn is more of a shooter than Eaton. He is not going to come right in and starting taking it to the rack against 6'8 big men. If he does he'll have less success than Eaton did his freshman year.

 

[Dignon003]

Penn is not the pentrator that Eaton is. He's not going to attempt to draw the contact.

Ford's style of play is about # of possessions. He talks about it everywhere he goes.

Penn is a much better outside shooter and is faster with the ball. Byron on breakaway was a layup except for one time his freshman year. Penn on a breakaway is a dunk.

 

[oSuJeff97]

The ultimate uptempo program in College is UNC. Roy Williams pushes the ball or rebounds, made shots, and turnovers and has a secondary break that he funnels to. OSU last year just took alot of quick perimeter shots. Their pressure D was not great, pushing off of rebounds wasnt great, and they didn't create the turnovers that are needed to be uptempo.

Well however it is acheived, the whole point of "up tempo" is to create more posessions per game, is it not?

And OSU did do some of those things you're talking about, just obviously not as well as UNC... mainly for personnel reasons.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Guys, these are the same tired arguments we read on here last year...OSU has no interior game...OSU's guards are too short...OSU can't play defense...OSU can't win with their style of play...etc, etc.

If anyone doesn't think Muonelo can shoot, you didn't watch any of their games last year. I kept wishing he was a Sooner.

The Aggies are going to play well. I am not concerned they are going to win the league or anything but it is a little early to prepare for their eulogy.

 

[BigTime]

Guys, these are the same tired arguments we read on here last year...OSU has no interior game...OSU's guards are too short...OSU can't play defense...OSU can't win with their style of play...etc, etc.

If anyone doesn't think Muonelo can shoot, you didn't watch any of their games last year. I kept wishing he was a Sooner.

The Aggies are going to play well. I am not concerned they are going to win the league or anything but it is a little early to prepare for their eulogy.

Interesting take Norm. I would also like you to think about this: it is just as fair in my mind to have people doubting OSU and Ford's system now that Byron Eaton has departed (created shots for teammates, got to the free throw line, finished strong in traffic etc...) then it is to have people from other teams doubt OU after the lose of Blake.

What Byron did for guys like James Anderson and Keiton Page will not likely be replaced. I hope James Anderson wrote him a thank you note after the year was over.

Don't underestimate the fact that the aggies lost their best perimeter defender in Terrell Harris, and are replacing the 6'5 swingman with a couple of guys under 6 feet tall.

Lastly, the Big 12 is expected to be better this year. OSU has a difficult Big 12 North road schedule. There are a quite a few teams that look really good on paper.

IMO, The play of Matt Pilgrim will determine their season and whether or not they finish in the top 5 of the league. Not getting Karron Johnson hurt.

 

[DenverSooner]

I see OSU at about 8-8 in the conference (with 10-6 to 6-10 being possible). They will be tough at home but will lose some home games and they will have problems on the road but will probably win a few road games. They have some good players but they still have issues up front and they lost two key players.

 

[ByronHoustonsSweatyPalms]

Interesting take Norm. I would also like you to think about this: it is just as fair in my mind to have people doubting OSU and Ford's system now that Byron Eaton has departed (created shots for teammates, got to the free throw line, finished strong in traffic etc...) then it is to have people from other teams doubt OU after the lose of Blake.

What Byron did for guys like James Anderson and Keiton Page will not likely be replaced. I hope James Anderson wrote him a thank you note after the year was over.

Don't underestimate the fact that the aggies lost their best perimeter defender in Terrell Harris, and are replacing the 6'5 swingman with a couple of guys under 6 feet tall.

Lastly, the Big 12 is expected to be better this year. OSU has a difficult Big 12 North road schedule. There are a quite a few teams that look really good on paper.

IMO, The play of Matt Pilgrim will determine their season and whether or not they finish in the top 5 of the league. Not getting Karron Johnson hurt.

Age old question. What is more valuable? A stud point guard or center? We could argue all day, but I tend to lean towards the center since they are so scarce now days.

I always sang the praises of Byron even when he was playing for Sean. Although he was sometimes reckless and did stupid things he brought a certain energy to the team. He will be missed, but then again that's college basketball.:ford

 

[Soonerspiff]

Age old question. What is more valuable? A stud point guard or center?

I think you could easily argue that, for their respective teams, Eaton and Blake were equally as important. The offenses ran through them in each case... Both were the emotional leaders of their teams...

The only thing is that Blake is irreplaceable because he's one of a kind. You can find another Byron Eaton, but not another Blake. It just all depends on how the teams try and adapt with new personel in a new year. I think OU will obviously try a completely different look based on who we have this coming in. I don't think OSU will do that, and for what they want to do/did last year, it will be very difficult for them to replicate it without a seasoned point that take it to the rim and get to the line.

 

[HoHum]

Not getting Karron Johnson hurt.

I think a big question is who would be more helpful THIS year, Johnson or Pilgrim? Because they wouldn't have got Pilgrim if Johnson had qualified.

 

[DFWHoopster]

I think a big question is who would be more helpful THIS year, Johnson or Pilgrim? Because they wouldn't have got Pilgrim if Johnson had qualified.

No offense to Pilgrim- he might be a decent player. But from all reports Karron Johnson was going to be a difference maker. Pilgrim is a guy who averaged 8pts and 5 rebs for Hampton. And Calipari didn't think he was good enough to keep on the roster at Kentucky. I would keep expectations low for Pilgrim.

 

[HoHum]

No offense to Pilgrim- he might be a decent player. But from all reports Karron Johnson was going to be a difference maker. Pilgrim is a guy who averaged 8pts and 5 rebs for Hampton. And Calipari didn't think he was good enough to keep on the roster at Kentucky. I would keep expectations low for Pilgrim.

I think Pilgrim will average 10 and 5.

 

[DFWHoopster]

I think Pilgrim will average 10 and 5.

Don't you think Moses, Anderson, Muonelo and Page average double figures? Hard to imagine a fifth player does.

I would guess

Anderson- 20
Muonelo- 15
Moses- 12
Page- 11

you probably have the other 15-20 points divided among 5 or 6 guys.

 

[Seymore Cox]

I think Pilgrim will average 10 and 5.

Not a chance. He couldn't even average that at lowly hampton and got cut at Kentucky for a slow 7ft guy with no skills. Not hating, but nothing about Pilgrim says he'll get those numbers. especially the fact that Ford does not utilize his post players effectively. If Pil were to get those numbers It will have to be self made. I wouldn't be suprised seeing Moses average jump to 12-14pts a game. i think Page's number jump a point or two. I think Munelo aveages around 17pts a game.