Pledger vs. Cade... who is the starting SG?

[Mr.B!!!]

our best lineup imo is

newell
pledge
tj
clark
fitz(or someone more athletic)

and a suns type offense

With all due respect, three of those guys have never played D-1 ball, much less have shown a skill set on the D-1 level to run a "Suns type" offense. Who is the Steve Nash in that line-up? The Knicks certainly didn't have a Steve Nash and you saw how the offense worked for them.

More realistically, and with the same experience issues, the best line-up (at least at the beginning of the season) will be:

PG: Blair (Newell)
W: Pledge (TJ)
W: Cade (Cam)
P: Washington (Cam or Thompson)
P: Fitzgerald (Thompson or Washington)

With this line-up, you've got a guy with D-1 PG experience under his belt, two wings with D-1 experience, a post with D-1 experience and a Junior with high-end JUCO experience. Now personally I think that Cam will be a starter from day one; however, if I learned anything from last season it is the need to surround talented freshmen with as much experience as possible at all times, especially before conference play starts.

If this team is going to have any chance at being better than average, it is going to have to focus on defense and rebounding because I'm not sure where the offense is going to come from. Generally speaking, freshmen are not physically or mentally prepared to play defense at the D-1 level (again, see last season). I'd look back to Capel's first season here to see how we are going to play...and hope that he finds a "go to" guy like Carter before the conference play starts.

 

[FaithfulSooner]

What bok and Edmond said. I think to start out you have to let Cade be a leader. Give Cam and TJ time to get adjusted to this level of basketball. BOOMER SOONER BABY!!!

 

[BigTime]

Good discussion guys.

I think they both start along with Carl Blair at the point. Cameron Clark is going to be an all conference type of player (mark it down) before he leaves OU, but, he is going to have to get tougher on and off the ball and he is going to need to learn how to play team defense and not just go for the big block. We also need our three to be able to really help out on the glass (which Cade has proven at times during his career). The earliest that I see Cam breaking through into the starting lineup is late december.

As for Bird, I really think he takes a big step this year. Per sharp, he is in much better shape and from what I have heard through the grapevine, he has taken some real ownership of this team. Look for him to be a vocal leader.

Just my take.

 

[thebigabd]

Talent isn't everything.

Ok, but if you are a junior and play double the minutes you should average more than 3ppg over the other guy. From what we have read, Pledger has put in some serious work, dropped weight, etc. Plus the bad influences from last years team are gone.

You say Pledger is the more talented player (which is debatable), but is he a better player? Cade has gotten better every year.

I think he is a better player.

I mean, Cade hasnt had one season (going into senior year) where he has over a 39.3% field goal percentage. He is a low 30's percentile 3pt shooter as well. He shot 65% from the line and then 77% the next year, not great.

He does some things well, but he does "bench" things well. He is a 6th man type, in my opinion. When you have a more talented option that is in good shape (which Pledger is), its best to go with him in my opinion.

Pledgers freshman stats won't wow you, and the percentages outside of FT's are kinda similar. But he was an out of shape true freshman and Cade was playing 32 minutes a game in his third year in the program.

He can be a leader in the locker room, off the court, and off the bench. Being in the starting lineup doesn't matter in terms of leadership unless you are also a starter caliber player.

PG: Carl Blair/Calvin Newell
SG: Steven Pledger/Cade Davis
SF: Cameron Clark/Cade Davis
PF: CJ Washington/Nick Thompson
C: Andrew Fitzgerald/Nick Thompson

 

[luckyc1423]

Ok, but if you are a junior and play double the minutes you should average more than 3ppg over the other guy. From what we have read, Pledger has put in some serious work, dropped weight, etc. Plus the bad influences from last years team are gone.



I think he is a better player.

I mean, Cade hasnt had one season (going into senior year) where he has over a 39.3% field goal percentage. He is a low 30's percentile 3pt shooter as well. He shot 65% from the line and then 77% the next year, not great.

He does some things well, but he does "bench" things well. He is a 6th man type, in my opinion. When you have a more talented option that is in good shape (which Pledger is), its best to go with him in my opinion.

Pledgers freshman stats won't wow you, and the percentages outside of FT's are kinda similar. But he was an out of shape true freshman and Cade was playing 32 minutes a game in his third year in the program.

He can be a leader in the locker room, off the court, and off the bench. Being in the starting lineup doesn't matter in terms of leadership unless you are also a starter caliber player.

PG: Carl Blair/Calvin Newell
SG: Steven Pledger/Cade Davis
SF: Cameron Clark/Cade Davis
PF: CJ Washington/Nick Thompson
C: Andrew Fitzgerald/Nick Thompson

I actually like this lineup the most...I think cade could be very beneficial bringing his high energy off the bench...I just dont think that Capel will do this...who knows

 

[NickZepp]

Pledger didn't really play a lot last year but he looked real slow in the limited action I saw. He didn't seem to know how to play basic defense. He seems like a good 3 point shooter, that's about it. I think Cade is a much better defender, much better hustler. He'll be the leader of the tam and our best player. He will start. Pledger will give us 3s off the bench.

I think we need to use Cade less as a 3 point shooter he's just not that good at it. I think he was a lot better inside the arc in his limited chances last year.

 

[Cheno]

Cade starts for sure IMO. If Pledger is much improved he could start with Cade.
My guess it's Cade and Cam on the wings though.

 

[stanley11]

Whoever earns it.

 

[thebigabd]

. I think Cade is a much better defender, much better hustler. He'll be the leader of the tam and our best player.

WOAH... WOAH.... WOAH.

If Cade Davis is your best player, prepare to win 8-10 games and go 0-16 in the Big 12.

On a good team, Davis is the second guy off the bench. Now, Cade is a great player to have on roster, but there is no way he should be the best player on a Big 12 team.

Cameron, Newell, Pledger, and Fitz are the best players on this team.

 

[NickZepp]

Our best experienced player. I know nothing about the young guys. Fitz won't be a leader for this team he'll play a good role, get us some points and boards inside. But he won't be the leader like Cade will be. Cade is not nearly as bad as you think. He's probably one of the better athletes we've had under Capel outside of Blake.

 

[campbest]

Sorry, but you're not going to sit your most experienced player...especially given the amount of youth and unproven players on the roster.

 

[CoachTalk]

WOAH... WOAH.... WOAH.

If Cade Davis is your best player, prepare to win 8-10 games and go 0-16 in the Big 12.

On a good team, Davis is the second guy off the bench. Now, Cade is a great player to have on roster, but there is no way he should be the best player on a Big 12 team.

Cameron, Newell, Pledger, and Fitz are the best players on this team.

Cade will be in the starting line up. I would say Newell, Pledger, and Fitz have a chance to be better, but they are not better than Cade right now.

 

[Max Power]

Ok, but if you are a junior and play double the minutes you should average more than 3ppg over the other guy. From what we have read, Pledger has put in some serious work, dropped weight, etc. Plus the bad influences from last years team are gone.



I think he is a better player.

I mean, Cade hasnt had one season (going into senior year) where he has over a 39.3% field goal percentage. He is a low 30's percentile 3pt shooter as well. He shot 65% from the line and then 77% the next year, not great.

He does some things well, but he does "bench" things well. He is a 6th man type, in my opinion. When you have a more talented option that is in good shape (which Pledger is), its best to go with him in my opinion.

Pledgers freshman stats won't wow you, and the percentages outside of FT's are kinda similar. But he was an out of shape true freshman and Cade was playing 32 minutes a game in his third year in the program.

He can be a leader in the locker room, off the court, and off the bench. Being in the starting lineup doesn't matter in terms of leadership unless you are also a starter caliber player.

PG: Carl Blair/Calvin Newell
SG: Steven Pledger/Cade Davis
SF: Cameron Clark/Cade Davis
PF: CJ Washington/Nick Thompson
C: Andrew Fitzgerald/Nick Thompson

There are more things to the games of basketball than points. Cade led the team in steals last year, and had more blocks and rebounds per game the pledge. last time I checked defense and rebounding are pretty important, especially in the Big 12

 

[thebigabd]

Sorry, but you're not going to sit your most experienced player...especially given the amount of youth and unproven players on the roster.

It's not like he wouldnt play... He is the backup SG and SF. He would be on the court a lot.

 

[campbest]

It's not like he wouldnt play... He is the backup SG and SF. He would be on the court a lot.

You're going to sit your most experienced player at the start of the game when you go on the road in conference? C'mon now, that makes zero sense.

Listen, I don't think Cade is a world-beater by any means and agree with what some others have said that he would be a role-player on an above average team, but for this team he is a starter. You can't shelve his athleticism/rebounding/etc until the first tv timeout...makes little sense with what else you have to work with. We don't have any proven players underneath (Fitz is on his way) so you're going to need Cade hitting the glass from an off-guard position.

I'm not so worried about this team scoring, that will come with time, we need to establish our presence on the defensive end and rebounding from the tip, Cade is one of the few who can help with that.

 

[sharp1]

There are more things to the games of basketball than points. Cade led the team in steals last year, and had more blocks and rebounds per game the pledge. last time I checked defense and rebounding are pretty important, especially in the Big 12

I just watched the video posted for Cade, looks like another video for Pledger...Pledger hit the clutch free-throws down the stretch, Pledger got the turn-over on Hamilton in the corner. "one of the few defensive highlights on the video"...Both are very good players and Cade has that desire that a lot of "true" freshman dont have...But I think this yr. Pledger will turn the corner, He's in better shape, he's more confident, and stronger. The competition in practice should be off the chain, a dog fight everyday and may the best man win!

 

[Shooterms]

Im going with Pledger.....

 

[MsProudSooner]

Some people don't recognize the value Cade brings beyond his stat line.

 

[sharp1]

Some people don't recognize the value Cade brings beyond his stat line.

I dont know about anyone else on the board but I just watched the wings workout.....and Pledger seems the most comfortable, talented, relaxed and ready to play. There is no question that he has worked very hard this off season, now lets see how that translates to the floor and playing time. Also cam & TJ, are freshman, give them a chance to learn the college game before we set our expectations.

 

[seniorsooner]

Cade Davis will start for this team. The amount of minutes given to each backcourt player will fluctuate wildly throughout the season, but when the starters are announced prior to each game Cade Davis will be one of them. You can take it to the bank.