Reaves/Marshall-WSU/Observations

[BCSooners]

UNC just lost at home to Wofford for the second time in three years. Only two bench guys scored for Carolina. Roy Williams clearly has no idea how to fill a roster...way too much dead weight

I’m a UNC fan 2nd, he does have a lot of dead weight. 2 transfers not panning out & weak wing play.

 

[BCSooners]

lol, they played 5 guys, 4 for considerable minutes. Considerable meaning our three played 29 minutes, their 4 played 56. Significantly more rest for the starters, huh?

I know you see the difference, but I doubt your ego will let you admit it.

So their dead weight is the starters? Two of whom are replacing Anthony & Black.

 

[Sooner04]

I’ll give you Merritt but that’s it. OU signed 5 Hs players last year & 3 are contributing with the other 2 believed to have upside. Who would you rather have that OU had a chance at?

I don't follow recruiting close enough anymore to give you a detailed answer. But I will say that I'd rather have a guy from Kingston, Oklahoma than the NBA Global Academy. I want chances to be taken on guys from the area, establishing relationships with coaches in the area, rather than taking fliers on someone from Bella Vista Prep.

My stance is this: give me an undersized guard or forward from DFW or Houston over a rim-protecting project with "upside" from somewhere 1,000 miles away. Or more.


What about you, BC? What have you seen to give you confidence in Kuath, Issanza or Garang?

 

[WTSooner]

So their dead weight is the starters? Two of whom are replacing Anthony & Black.

There is a difference between dead weight and guys that are underperforming or not living up to expectations.

OU literally signed a number of guys that had NO chance of contributing this year at all. MULTIPLE. And there is no guarantee they contribute in the future, but they definitely won't this year. Why not sign 1 guy a year like that, and not 3?

 

[BCSooners]

I don't follow recruiting close enough anymore to give you a detailed answer. But I will say that I'd rather have a guy from Kingston, Oklahoma than the NBA Global Academy. I want chances to be taken on guys from the area, establishing relationships with coaches in the area, rather than taking fliers on someone from Bella Vista Prep.

My stance is this: give me an undersized guard or forward from DFW or Houston over a rim-protecting project with "upside" from somewhere 1,000 miles away. Or more.


What about you, BC? What have you seen to give you confidence in Kuath, Issanza or Garang?

I saw the kid from Kingston 8+ times & wouldn’t have touched him. Getting in with coaches from Bella Vista Prep will be worth more than coaches from southern Oklahoma.

I haven’t seen anything from Issanza or Garang, but they are freshmen projects. If one of them pans out then it’s a win (you can’t play 13). Kuath was a good attempt to get some height/shot blocking, but Iwuakor looks better. That’s why you have competition in practice.

 

[Sooner04]

I saw the kid from Kingston 8+ times & wouldn’t have touched him. Getting in with coaches from Bella Vista Prep will be worth more than coaches from southern Oklahoma.

I haven’t seen anything from Issanza or Garang, but they are freshmen projects. If one of them pans out then it’s a win (you can’t play 13). Kuath was a good attempt to get some height/shot blocking, but Iwuakor looks better. That’s why you have competition in practice.

To each his own! I'm much more keen on keeping it local. And I'm MUCH more into basketball players than those who might develop into one.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[BCSooners]

There is a difference between dead weight and guys that are underperforming or not living up to expectations.

OU literally signed a number of guys that had NO chance of contributing this year at all. MULTIPLE. And there is no guarantee they contribute in the future, but they definitely won't this year. Why not sign 1 guy a year like that, and not 3?

They signed 1 who won’t contribute (Merritt), 2 that are high upside projects (Issanza & Garang), & 4 that are contributing with the 5 returning contributors. What else could you’d have wanted from OU with that big a turnover?

 

[BCSooners]

To each his own! I'm much more keen on keeping it local. And I'm MUCH more into basketball players than those who might develop into one.

Thanks for the reply.

If OU kept it local they would be ORU.

 

[oudna]

If you don’t see the upside in the 3 Africans, you’re just being stubborn.

Unfortunately, only 1 of the 3 is currently contributing to winning.

 

[BCSooners]

If you don’t see the upside in the 3 Africans, you’re just being stubborn.

Unfortunately, only 1 of the 3 is currently contributing to winning.

It was pretty known that Issanza & Garang weren’t going to contribute this year. I’m more surprised about the returning player Bienemy.

 

[oudna]

It was pretty known that Issanza & Garang weren’t going to contribute this year. I’m more surprised about the returning player Bienemy.

I was talking about Iwuakor, Kuath and Issanza.

Wasn’t aware of Garang. Thanks

 

[BCSooners]

I was talking about Iwuakor, Kuath and Issanza.

Wasn’t aware of Garang. Thanks

I thought Kuath would help more, wasn’t aware of his foot speed.

 

[sperry]

Signing JUCO players has been Lon's biggest problem. The talent is non-existent at that level, yet Lon keeps going back to the well and whiffing over and over again. It feels like a big win when OU gets a guy like Alondes who is nothing more than serviceable.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Signing JUCO players has been Lon's biggest problem. The talent is non-existent at that level, yet Lon keeps going back to the well and whiffing over and over again. It feels like a big win when OU gets a guy like Alondes who is nothing more than serviceable.

Nine games into his career and Williams has already played a big role in contributing to two or three wins. If that is simply serviceable, I guess someone needs to be averaging 20+ to actually be considered good.

I still don't understand what people think should be realistically expected from bench players at the college level, whether they come from high school, JUCO, prep school, the NBA Academy, or fall from the sky and land in Norman. People fixate so much on where our recruits come from -- some people love JUCOs, others hate them. Some people pine for "high school guards," others don't. The fact remains that most teams, even great ones, have at most three guys on the bench who are going to be steady contributors throughout the course of a season. Even those guys will have ups and downs. When Vic, Williams, Hill, or Kur have a good game (and all of them already have), people are begging Lon to play them more. When they have a poor game, people label them as dead weight. The regular season is not even a third of the way over. A couple of the guys on our bench are true freshman, and both of the JUCOs (especially Williams) have already helped us. If you are looking for them to be stars, then of course you will be disappointed. But again, that is true for basically every bench player in America.

 

[thebigabd]

Signing JUCO players has been Lon's biggest problem. The talent is non-existent at that level, yet Lon keeps going back to the well and whiffing over and over again. It feels like a big win when OU gets a guy like Alondes who is nothing more than serviceable.

Hannes Polla was not a juco... Anyang Garang is not a juco... Miles Reynolds is not a juco... Matt Freeman was not a juco...Jordan Shepherd is not a juco... Rick Issanza is not a juco... Alondes averages more than double what Jalen Hill does... Alondes averages more than Jamal Bienemy... Alondes averages more than Victor does.

Baylor has a juco from Kansas who wanted to come to OU who is a nice player... one of the better shooters in the conference and averages 9 or so on his career. He chose Miles Reynolds instead.

Arkansas has a juco who averages 20 and 6 who was from a juco in Oklahoma. I just watched him score 41 against Tulsa. Guy is likely All SEC and OU didn't even look at him. It's not excusable. Mason Jones. Was really good last year, and averaging 20 per game this year. Went to Arkansas WITHOUT AN OU OFFER! Defend it... You can't defend it.

WVU has a juco from Texas who was outstanding in the second half of last year and is averaging 11 and 6 this year. 6'7'' point forward. No OU offer.

Arizona State took a juco from Kansas who I had spoken about that who is averaging 10/4 out of the gate. No OU offer.

Wichita State took Trey Wade from a juco in Texas who averages 10/7... including 11 points and 15 rebounds against OU. No OU offer.

Tyson Jolly, from Oklahoma, is at SMU averaging 15 and 7 out of the gate from a Texas juco...

It's the same story every year.... Kansas, Texas, Iowa produces legit juco talent that don't get OU offers. I don't know how he ended up with Merritt, or some of the other guys he does, high school or otherwise...

This isn't a juco problem... this is a Lon Kruger problem. He, once again, took guys who aren't ready to play. Alondes is not the problem. I would sign Alondes again. You shouldn't take Anyang Garang unless Trey Wade turned you down. You shouldn't take Miles Reynolds unless Bandoo turned you down. You don't let Mason Jones leave your state without an OU offer at least. Kuath is a fine rotation guy too, I would sign him again. He can at least get on the floor.

He also didn't recruit to OU's needs. He knows OU was a bad rebounding team last year. Didn't bring in a single player to help that problem. He has nobody to throw in there and help with the glass, and therefore he can't take the starters out or mix them up because once Doolittle leaves the game OU will get run. Doolittle has put OU on his back and is the sole reason the team doesn't have losses to North Texas, William & Mary, and Oregon State.

OU could honestly have a lineup of:

PG: Austin Reaves
SG: Mason Jones
SG: Devonte Bandoo
PF: Kristian Doolittle
PF: Brady Manek

It wouldn't have been hard... Bandoo already wanted to come to OU. That's a 10ppg guy and a 40% 3pt shooter... Mason Jones was right down the damn road and didn't get an Arkansas offer until real late in the game. He would have come to OU and had 3 years to play with an earlier offer. That is All Big 12 caliber player.

Then, instead of saying OU has failed at jucos, we would be praising OU's ability to recruit local jucos like we did back int he day. Two guys, right there... Bandoo and Jones, change the fortunes of OU basketball for YEARS. That's all it takes is a couple of players, and they are there.

 

[oudna]

Signing JUCO players has been Lon's biggest problem. The talent is non-existent at that level, yet Lon keeps going back to the well and whiffing over and over again. It feels like a big win when OU gets a guy like Alondes who is nothing more than serviceable.

Bad take.

 

[thebigabd]

I will add something to my rant too.... The Sampson-era jucos weren't that different from what is available now.

Nolan Johnson averaged 10/5.
Kelley Newton averaged 10/3.
Terrell Everett averaged 13/4/6.
Daryan Selvy averaged 7/5.
Eric Martin averaged 12/5.

These guy's aren't NBA superstars... but they are very good contributors that filled a role and made a team. They connected the dots. OU currently has Reaves, Manek, and Doolittle... Haley, Bandoo, Jones, etc would have connected the dots. In Jones' case, he would likely be the 2nd best player on the team.

Gettable guys like Jermaine Haley (now at WVU)... Devonte Bandoo (now at Baylor).... Mason Jones (now at Arkansas)... Alonzo Verge (now at Arizona State)... Vladimir Brodziansky (was at TCU)... etc would have been in this same category, and sometimes even better.

Anyone who believes OU can't have guys like that anymore have stuck their end in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the truth.

OU's next coach will need to recognize this pattern and recruit accordingly. With a dedicated assistant to juco basketball, guys like Mason Jones wouldn't leave your state without an offer. That is 3 years of high level play, which is significant.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I will add something to my rant too.... The Sampson-era jucos weren't that different from what is available now.

Nolan Johnson averaged 10/5.
Kelley Newton averaged 10/3.
Terrell Everett averaged 13/4/6.
Daryan Selvy averaged 7/5.
Eric Martin averaged 12/5.

These guy's aren't NBA superstars... but they are very good contributors that filled a role and made a team. They connected the dots. OU currently has Reaves, Manek, and Doolittle... Haley, Bandoo, Jones, etc would have connected the dots. In Jones' case, he would likely be the 2nd best player on the team.

Gettable guys like Jermaine Haley (now at WVU)... Devonte Bandoo (now at Baylor).... Mason Jones (now at Arkansas)... Alonzo Verge (now at Arizona State)... Vladimir Brodziansky (was at TCU)... etc would have been in this same category, and sometimes even better.

Anyone who believes OU can't have guys like that anymore have stuck their end in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the truth.

OU's next coach will need to recognize this pattern and recruit accordingly. With a dedicated assistant to juco basketball, guys like Mason Jones wouldn't leave your state without an offer. That is 3 years of high level play, which is significant.

So to summarize -- you think we could get every single good JUCO guy we want, and that if our staff batted a thousand and could identify only the good ones while not taking the dozens of horrible ones you have mentioned over the years, we would be killing it. Got it.

 

[WTSooner]

I will add something to my rant too.... The Sampson-era jucos weren't that different from what is available now.

Nolan Johnson averaged 10/5.
Kelley Newton averaged 10/3.
Terrell Everett averaged 13/4/6.
Daryan Selvy averaged 7/5.
Eric Martin averaged 12/5.

These guy's aren't NBA superstars... but they are very good contributors that filled a role and made a team. They connected the dots. OU currently has Reaves, Manek, and Doolittle... Haley, Bandoo, Jones, etc would have connected the dots. In Jones' case, he would likely be the 2nd best player on the team.

Gettable guys like Jermaine Haley (now at WVU)... Devonte Bandoo (now at Baylor).... Mason Jones (now at Arkansas)... Alonzo Verge (now at Arizona State)... Vladimir Brodziansky (was at TCU)... etc would have been in this same category, and sometimes even better.

Anyone who believes OU can't have guys like that anymore have stuck their end in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the truth.

OU's next coach will need to recognize this pattern and recruit accordingly. With a dedicated assistant to juco basketball, guys like Mason Jones wouldn't leave your state without an offer. That is 3 years of high level play, which is significant.

Good posts. You nailed it.

 

[thebigabd]

So to summarize -- you think we could get every single good JUCO guy we want, and that if our staff batted a thousand and could identify only the good ones while not taking the dozens of horrible ones you have mentioned over the years, we would be killing it. Got it.

Of course, nobody bats a thousand... but I am convinced that OU could, for the most part, have their pick of these juco players... and to say otherwise is sticking your head in the sand. In many cases, OU is the best program for these guys. The best program typically gets the better players. Ask Duke, Kentucky, etc if their program status helps them get the players they want.

The specific examples I named... OU would have been the best program to offer them. If you offer Mason Jones, in your own backyard, and he still goes to Arkansas. Fine. But you let an immediate impact, potentially all league player leave your backyard without an offer. No excuse for it.