RIDICULOUS recruiting

[Salt City Sooner]

Calipari doesn't have to cheat at Kentucky. It's a legendary program and a place truly obsessed with basketball. Players know they can show up for a year or two, challenge for a national title, live like kings and go make millions when they're done. Calipari's convinced recruits that they can market themselves better by playing together than by going to a lesser school and being a star there. And he's right. Not many coaches/schools could pull it off, but Cal/UK can. I don't doubt he was a massive cheater at Memphis and UMass, though.

I don't see the system as anything to complain about.

:eddie187_jpg_xs: says hi.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

:eddie187_jpg_xs: says hi.

He tried to cheat, still stunk. I think you just have to stay off the booze there.

 

[campbest]

There are more ways to cheat than just paying players to come to your school. Especially with the ones that stay for two years, there are concerns about how some of them stay eligible. Not just a UK problem, but they probably have the most guys that are only around a year or two.

If kids who have to go to JUCO can stay eligible for three semesters, I am sure there is a way to get it done at a state school.

 

[Sawyer]

I'm sure rules are being bent, but no more than any other major school IMO. Kentucky landing elite players isn't iffy. Baylor landing elite recruits, on the other hand...

As for academics and staying eligible, I know several of Calipari's recruits recently have also been good students (Brandon Knight was a really smart kid, if I remember right). Again, I don't think there's anything any more questionable about their eligibility at UK vs. any other school.

Regarding Sutton, he didn't have the same kind of NBA ties Calipari has, and that was a different era. Calipari's a celebrity coach with all kinds of NBA ties in an age when that matters to kids. If you're an elite recruit, you've probably been taught for years already the importance of marketing, and Calipari's tapped into that. You don't choose Kentucky because it's a great school or a great program or Calipari's a great coach. You choose Kentucky because he's convinced kids it's the right marketing decision for the next step.

 

[WaymanFan]

The ironic part about Kentucky is they don't produce great NBA players. History shows they don't even produce many good ones. They simply produce a lot of them. It's really a super marketing job by Calipari. If I'm the coach at just about any other big-time program, I'm out selling that going to my school produces better NBA players (Kentucky would not sniff the top 5 in quality NBA players over the past 50 years) and will ultimately get you more money in the long term based on past history (even though it may not be true).

Blake Griffin has already been to three All-Star games. Only one Kentucky player in the last 50 years has been to more and that was Dan Issel who has been retired for 28 years. The best Kentucky player now is Rajon Rhondo, and he didn't even play for Calipari. John Wall and Anthony Davis MIGHT develop into All-Stars. I can think of only two other Kentucky All-Star players in the past 50 years - Antoine Walker and Jamal Mashburn. Again, at least a dozen schools have more impressive NBA resumes than that. That is why my hat is off to Calipari for such a great selling job.

 

[DenverSooner]

Calipari's a celebrity coach with all kinds of NBA ties in an age when that matters to kids.

What makes Calipari a Celebrity coach? How is he different than say 20 or so coaches in the college game?

what are Calipari's NBA connections?

I get that Kentucky has a huge name and that Calipari is a well know coach but I don't see it any different than Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, etc. and the recruiting is off the chart. I am not sure I would conclude that everything is per se OK at Kentucky.

 

[campbest]

what are Calipari's NBA connections?

He coached in the NBA?

 

[campbest]

The ironic part about Kentucky is they don't produce great NBA players. History shows they don't even produce many good ones. They simply produce a lot of them. It's really a super marketing job by Calipari. If I'm the coach at just about any other big-time program, I'm out selling that going to my school produces better NBA players (Kentucky would not sniff the top 5 in quality NBA players over the past 50 years) and will ultimately get you more money in the long term based on past history (even though it may not be true).

Blake Griffin has already been to three All-Star games. Only one Kentucky player in the last 50 years has been to more and that was Dan Issel who has been retired for 28 years. The best Kentucky player now is Rajon Rhondo, and he didn't even play for Calipari. John Wall and Anthony Davis MIGHT develop into All-Stars. I can think of only two other Kentucky All-Star players in the past 50 years - Antoine Walker and Jamal Mashburn. Again, at least a dozen schools have more impressive NBA resumes than that. That is why my hat is off to Calipari for such a great selling job.

You have to first get in the NBA to be All-NBA (I don't count All-Star games, those are based on fan appeal, not pure production/talent). Players are more worried about being drafted high and a guaranteed contract at the high school senior age and Kentucky (Calipari) has done that over the past five years. Even though Rose went to Memphis, he is lumped into the Kentucky idea of putting players into the NBA because of Calipari.

I don't think Kentucky is doing anything above and beyond other schools, this is just as much a generational thing as it is a recruiting phenomenon. Kids today play with friends/buddies they met on the summer circuit who are also really good players. To some extent, I applaud this. What is going to make Julius Randle better as a player...playing against Cauley-Stein and Andrew Wiggins everyday in practice/pick-up or CJ Cole? Would you rather learn the nuances of a pick-and-roll with the Harrison twins or Isaiah Cousins?

 

[Smash Williams]

The ironic part about Kentucky is they don't produce great NBA players. History shows they don't even produce many good ones. They simply produce a lot of them. It's really a super marketing job by Calipari. If I'm the coach at just about any other big-time program, I'm out selling that going to my school produces better NBA players (Kentucky would not sniff the top 5 in quality NBA players over the past 50 years) and will ultimately get you more money in the long term based on past history (even though it may not be true).

Blake Griffin has already been to three All-Star games. Only one Kentucky player in the last 50 years has been to more and that was Dan Issel who has been retired for 28 years. The best Kentucky player now is Rajon Rhondo, and he didn't even play for Calipari. John Wall and Anthony Davis MIGHT develop into All-Stars. I can think of only two other Kentucky All-Star players in the past 50 years - Antoine Walker and Jamal Mashburn. Again, at least a dozen schools have more impressive NBA resumes than that. That is why my hat is off to Calipari for such a great selling job.

Most kids that were born in 1995 or 1996 don't care about what NBA players a school produced 50 years ago. Most of the men that coached those players 50 years ago aren't even alive, let alone actively coaching today, so this argument of who has produced the best NBA players in the last 50 years isn't germane to recruiting. Tradition definitely matters in establishing a school's brand, but the fact that kids have no idea who Scott Padgett and Jeff Sheppard were doesn't take away from the power of UK's brand

Calipari coached an NBA MVP in Derrick Rose; a year later, he produced another Top 5 pick in Tyreke Evans. That it happened at Memphis instead of Kentucky doesn't matter, as Calipari still gets credit for coaching them. Calipari has coached three of the last five #1 overall picks: Rose is a superstar, Wall is having a breakout season and has put himself on the verge of getting a max extension, and Davis still looks like a franchise player in the making. With 11 first round picks in the last three years alone, no other coach is matching Calipari's recent history of getting players to the league. How many of them have long NBA careers remains to be seen, but the reality that all of those players already have guaranteed millions is a powerful recruiting tool.

So who are all these coaches at big-time programs that can sell the fact that they're producing better NBA players than Calipari? Roy Williams hasn't coached an NBA All-Star in 15 years (Paul Pierce). Coach K has Irving, Hill, Brand, Boozer, and Deng, but that's over the span of 20 years. Producing an NBA All-Star is a rare feat.

 

[Smash Williams]

He coached in the NBA?

Also, I believe he's a CAA client. They have a lot of pull in the NBA. A lot of media reports made it appear as if Melo strongly influenced the Knicks by having CAA pull the strings (i.e. Mike Woodson signed with CAA shortly before signing a contract to be the Knicks' full-time coach).

 

[WaymanFan]

Smash, you made a lot of good points, and I don't necessarily disagree with any of them. I'm just saying what I would do if I was recruiting against Calipari. He's only coached one or two All-Star players to date (Rose is one, not sure if Camby ever made an All-Star team) and Kentucky has a long history of producing substandard NBA players. Just about any top 10 program not named Indiana can boast about sending better players to the NBA than Kentucky...as long as the focus is on the school and not the coach.

 

[DenverSooner]

He coached in the NBA?

I did not recall Calipari coaching in the NBA. Did he do that between Umass and Memphis? I guess I should have just googled Calipari rather than ask.

 

[Sawyer]

What makes Calipari a Celebrity coach? How is he different than say 20 or so coaches in the college game?

what are Calipari's NBA connections?

I get that Kentucky has a huge name and that Calipari is a well know coach but I don't see it any different than Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, etc. and the recruiting is off the chart. I am not sure I would conclude that everything is per se OK at Kentucky.

Perception.

Krzyzewski is famous, and he appeals to a lot of guys. He's really the only coach that can compare to Calipari in that regard, and he also tends to get who he wants.

Roy is about as far from cool as you can get. Crying in press conferences doesn't look cool. He's not as connected as Calipari or Krzyzewski. UNC as a program, however, still has that mystic.

Self is a stuttering fool with a wig. Not cool at all. But he's a great coach who will let his players get away with sexual assault and other misdeeds, so he also attracts plenty of talent.

There really is no etc. Those four generally get who they want. Calipari and Krzyzewski could coach anywhere and land whoever they wanted. Self and Roy probably don't have quite that kind of rep, but they're close.

 

[Sawyer]

Smash, you made a lot of good points, and I don't necessarily disagree with any of them. I'm just saying what I would do if I was recruiting against Calipari. He's only coached one or two All-Star players to date (Rose is one, not sure if Camby ever made an All-Star team) and Kentucky has a long history of producing substandard NBA players. Just about any top 10 program not named Indiana can boast about sending better players to the NBA than Kentucky...as long as the focus is on the school and not the coach.

The focus is never on the school. "Kentucky" doesn't produce anything. The basketball program, as led by its current coach, does. What the school is worth is the atmosphere IMO. Kentucky will treat guys like kings. Other schools will fill the stands a few times a year for the right opponents. The school doesn't affect their long-term success, though.

 

[DenverSooner]

There really is no etc. Those four generally get who they want. Calipari and Krzyzewski could coach anywhere and land whoever they wanted. Self and Roy probably don't have quite that kind of rep, but they're close.

No etc.? What about Pitino, Donovan, Matta, Izzo, Calhoun, Boeheim? That is just to name a few off the top of my head.

 

[WTSooner]

Looks like Wiggins will in fact end up at UK.

I know that you really can't ever have too much talent, but there simply aren't enough minutes in each game to get all of those guys playing time, to keep them happy. I'm guessing there will be some chemistry, and possibly attitude issues this year.